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Old 02-08-2017, 11:47 AM
HackBenjamin HackBenjamin is offline

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Default Tinfoil Hat Theory - Was Argus a World-Soul?

Copying from my Reddit post:

I'd like to share a theory I came up with. It's very out there, but let me know what you think.

So, we know that after the Well of Eternity was "built" to staunch Azeroths massive wound, the Dark Trolls came to live on its shores. Due to the proximity to the Well and its powers, they evolved into the Kaldorei, taking on a purple skin tone, and gaining a great proficiency for Arcane magic. The World Souls blood is essentially raw Arcane magic. Arcane is the magic of Order, as per Chronicle.

For the sake of this theory, let's also take Cenarius into consideration. Cenarius' parentage has been fairly uncertain, but the general consensus is that his father is Malorne (confirmed) and his mother is presumed to be Elune.

We don't have much history or confirmed information on Elune, but we know the Kaldorei have revered her ever since communing with her. They believe that she sleeps within the Well of Eternity. For the sake of this theory, let's assume there is a correlation between the World Soul and Elune. Maybe Azeroth won't awaken as a matured World Soul, but perhaps Elune is a spiritual remnant?

So, there seems to be a correlation between our World Soul and our ability to wield Arcane at the level that we do. The Kaldorei were so proficient in using it that it attracted denizens of the Twisting Nether, and eventually the Legion itself.

On Argus, a world of which we know little, a race came into power that was very advanced and also very proficient with Arcane magics. The Eredar, prior to becoming Man'ari (Demons), were said to have varying skin colours; Alabaster, Blue, and Violet as well.

Given the information I've laid out, could Argus have held a World Soul, prior to it being bathed in Fel and utterly corrupted?



In case you'd like to read the comments, which I found a little thought provoking: https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlor...he_prevalence/
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:13 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Argus was probably filled with magic in the air, given what we know of the pre Legion eredar. But i doubt it was a world soul
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:30 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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It does not quite fit, but I subscribe to the theory that Argus might be Sargeras' planet.

To summon Sargeras' soul to Illidan's body, Gul'dan opens a portal to Argus.

Do you see a planet-sized nebula man? No, you see Argus.
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:37 PM
HackBenjamin HackBenjamin is offline

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It does not quite fit, but I subscribe to the theory that Argus might be Sargeras' planet.

To summon Sargeras' soul to Illidan's body, Gul'dan opens a portal to Argus.

Do you see a planet-sized nebula man? No, you see Argus.
Here is another picture of Argus, shown at Blizzcon:

https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/wow...4e98da1f5486e7

Looks like it was chopped in two, which he did previously when he had found that one world with a World-Soul that had been infested by Old Gods. His quest is to scour all life from the universe, so can we not assume that will include Titans, nascent or otherwise?

Last edited by HackBenjamin; 02-08-2017 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 02-08-2017, 01:19 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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We know that of the worlds he has destroyed he has chopped two: Mardum and the corrupted world-soul.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/File:Sarge...ing_planet.jpg

While the timeline does not allow for the world-soul to be Argus, it could have happened again.

But at the same time, even if the eredar revel in destruction, you would think that they would have at least mentioned their boss cleaving them.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:00 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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I thought that as well but id rather have Argus not be Sargeras world
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:16 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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/puts on tinfoil hat

Quote:
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Tome_of_Blighted_Implements

Thal'kiel also devised the machines that focused the world's latent arcane energy, suffusing Argus with peace, harmony, and vitality
Quote:
“Y’Shaarj was dead, but its tendrils had bored more deeply through Azeroth than Aman’Thul had ever imagined. In excising the Old God from the world, he had inadvertently ripped an eternal wound in Azeroth’s surface. Volatile arcane energies—the lifeblood of the nascent titan—erupted from the scar and roiled out across the world.”

Excerpt From: Entertainment, Blizzard. “World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1.” Dark Horse Books, 2016-03-15. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.
^Argus was a world with arcane energies and a world with arcane energies - the lifeblood of a nascent titan - is a nascent titan unless, of course, arcane energy isn't really the lifeblood of a nascent titan.

/take off tinfoil hat
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:19 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Originally Posted by necrophotic View Post
^Argus was a world with arcane energies and a world with arcane energies - the lifeblood of a nascent titan - is a nascent titan unless, of course, arcane energy isn't really the lifeblood of a nascent titan.
Arcane energies are not necessarily the lifeblood of a nascent titan.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:29 PM
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Arcane energies are not necessarily the lifeblood of a nascent titan.
A friendly recommendation, but do not try to reason with necrophotic, the way he criticizes text is, uhm, rather unusual.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:38 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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A friendly recommendation, but do not try to reason with necrophotic, the way he criticizes text is, uhm, rather unusual.
No it isn't
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:02 PM
Aquamonkey Aquamonkey is offline

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Originally Posted by HackBenjamin View Post
So, there seems to be a correlation between our World Soul and our ability to wield Arcane at the level that we do. The Kaldorei were so proficient in using it that it attracted denizens of the Twisting Nether, and eventually the Legion itself.

On Argus, a world of which we know little, a race came into power that was very advanced and also very proficient with Arcane magics. The Eredar, prior to becoming Man'ari (Demons), were said to have varying skin colours; Alabaster, Blue, and Violet as well.

Given the information I've laid out, could Argus have held a World Soul, prior to it being bathed in Fel and utterly corrupted?
Eredar were uplifted by the naaru and the ata'mal crystal.
The crystal had enabled them to expand both their mental abilities and their knowledge of the universe's mysteries. It had been used in the past for healing, for conjuration, and, as Velen hoped to use it tonight, for visions.
--Rise of the Horde
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/puts on tinfoil hat

^Argus was a world with arcane energies and a world with arcane energies - the lifeblood of a nascent titan - is a nascent titan unless, of course, arcane energy isn't really the lifeblood of a nascent titan.

/take off tinfoil hat
False dichotomy fallacy. Draenor was a world with arcane energies and even ley lines. It did not have a world-soul. Just because a world has arcane energies doesn't mean it has a world soul.

Water is the lifeblood of humans. That doesn't mean everything that has water is human or even alive.
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:55 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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False dichotomy fallacy. Draenor was a world with arcane energies and even ley lines. It did not have a world-soul. Just because a world has arcane energies doesn't mean it has a world soul.

Water is the lifeblood of humans. That doesn't mean everything that has water is human or even alive.
False dichotomy fallacy LOL.

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Draenor was a world with arcane energies and even ley lines. It did not have a world-soul.
Please present a canon source confirming your headcanon.

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Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
Just because a world has arcane energies doesn't mean it has a world soul.
Fallacy. Arcane energy is the lifeblood of a titan per the Chronicle and so if a world has the lifeblood of a titan, it must be a titan UNLESS the Chronicle is wrong and arcane energy really isn't the lifeblood of a titan.

I'm not the one who established that arcane energy is the lifeblood of a titan, so if you got a problem with me claiming that worlds that have the lifeblood of a titan is a titan, take your problems to Blizzard's employees and ask them if arcane energy is literally something that comes from titans only.

Which reminds me, Blizzard's employees are known for their oxymorons and misnomers, so you can't expect me to believe worlds can actually be living. You don't seem to even understand the ridiculous implication of the claim that worlds can be living. If worlds can be living, they can die. And if they can die, they can become dead. And if they can become dead, they can become undead. And out of all my years researching WoW lore, I've never heard or seen any canon source stating that worlds can become undead. I wonder why. Could it be because controlling things that were once living worlds can be considered necromancy?

I guess warlocks who invoke the dead, fel meteor of the now-deceased necromancer known as Gul'dan (Hand of Gul'dan) can be considered necromancers. I mean, Elune takes the valiant dead and places them in the sky as celestial bodies. And if using the celestial, arcane energy of these celestial dead is technically necromancy, I don't see why using the fel energy of astral bodies from the Nether can't be necromancy.

Last edited by necrophotic; 02-08-2017 at 11:24 PM..
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:11 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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I fail to say "dont answer to him retard" in ONE thread and this happens. Lol
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:28 PM
Aquamonkey Aquamonkey is offline

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False dichotomy fallacy LOL.

Fallacy. Arcane energy is the lifeblood of a titan per the Chronicle and so if a world has the lifeblood of a titan, it must be a titan UNLESS the Chronicle is wrong and arcane energy really isn't the lifeblood of a titan.

I'm not the one who established that arcane energy is the lifeblood of a titan, so if you got a problem with me claiming that worlds that have the lifeblood of a titan is a titan, take your problems to Blizzard's employees and ask them if arcane energy is literally something that comes from titans only.
It's a logical fallacy because the conclusion does not follow from the premise. Arcane being a titan's lifeblood doesn't mean all instances of arcane on worlds are such. The absence of a world-soul does not necessitate the absence of arcane. The absence of arcane means a definite absence of a world-soul.

Finding something necessary for life doesn't mean life is there. We find water and various organic compounds all over the solar system, but no confirmation of life.

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Please present a canon source confirming your headcanon.
Draenor had arcane ley lines.
Ner’zhul could sense Draenor’s ley lines crossing over and around and through him...
--Beyond the Dark Portal
The titans went to Draenor and left early on. Nothing interesting to hold their attention.
Originally Posted by Dave Kosak:
The Titans are an interesting concept and they sort of have their fingerprints all over the universe. The Titans actually visited Draenor, so we might get a little hint of what happened there. They helped shape Draenor and then they peaced out of there pretty early on, so they didn't leave quite as big a mark. So we might see a little bit of that. I don't think this next expansion will have a whole lot of Titan story behind it, but we will always kind of revisit that. Ultimately, the Titans are one of the opposites of the Burning Legion and there's a really interesting symmetry there. We'll definitely see more Titan stuff eventually in the future. (
)
The Legion went to Draenor and didn't give two shits about it other than murdering the Draenei and corrupting the orcs. There's no titan world-soul there for Sargeras to freak out over.

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Which reminds me, Blizzard's employees are known for their oxymorons and misnomers, so you can't expect me to believe worlds can actually be living. You don't seem to even understand the ridiculous implication of the claim that worlds can be living. If worlds can be living, they can die. And if they can die, they can become dead. And if they can become dead, they can become undead. And out of all my years researching WoW lore, I've never heard or seen any canon source stating that worlds can become undead. I wonder why. Could it be because controlling things that were once living worlds can be considered necromancy?

I guess warlocks who invoke the dead, fel meteor of the now-deceased necromancer known as Gul'dan (Hand of Gul'dan) can be considered necromancers.
Irrelevant tangent.
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:45 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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It's a logical fallacy because the conclusion does not follow from the premise. Arcane being a titan's lifeblood doesn't mean all instances of arcane on worlds are such. The absence of a world-soul does not necessitate the absence of arcane. The absence of arcane means a definite absence of a world-soul.
Except, it's not a logical fallacy because I concluded that Argus isn't a titan unless arcane energy - something it has - is literally the lifeblood of a titan. You seem to be having a difficult time understanding that if the lifeblood of a titan is literally arcane energy, a world with arcane energy as its blood is literally a titan. I didn't state that arcane energy is the lifeblood of a titan as definitive fact, so watching you falsely accuse me of presenting logical fallacies has got me rolling. I don't see any of my posts above claiming Argus and Draenor are titans as definitive fact and that's because I don't believe they're titans.

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The Legion went to Draenor and didn't give two shits about it other than murdering the Draenei and corrupting the orcs. There's no titan world-soul there for Sargeras to freak out over.
That's nice, but still doesn't prove I'm wrong.

Last edited by necrophotic; 02-08-2017 at 08:53 PM..
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:47 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Maybe the new Legion infernals are undead chunks of planets.
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:24 PM
Aquamonkey Aquamonkey is offline

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Except, it's not a logical fallacy because I concluded that Argus isn't a titan unless arcane energy - something it has - is literally the lifeblood of a titan. You seem to be having a difficult time understanding that if the lifeblood of a titan is literally arcane energy, a world with arcane energy as its blood is literally a titan. I didn't state that arcane energy is the lifeblood of a titan as definitive fact, so watching you falsely accuse me of presenting logical fallacies has got me rolling. I don't see any of my posts above claiming Argus and Draenor are titans as definitive fact and that's because I don't believe they're titans.
Arcane being the lifeblood of a titan is a definitive fact per Chronicle.

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if the lifeblood of a titan is literally arcane energy, a world with arcane energy as its blood is literally a titan.
That is the logical error. A planet having arcane energy does not necessitate it being a titan.

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I don't see any of my posts above claiming Argus and Draenor are titans as definitive fact and that's because I don't believe they're titans.
You believe Draenor is not a titan, but it has arcane ley lines, therefore you reject arcane being the titans' lifeblood. But that is not the only solution to the dilemma. The other solution is that something can have arcane and not be a titan. This second solution doesn't contradict a definitive fact.
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:38 PM
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All of the planets thus far seem to have leylines just beneath their surfaces, along which their native arcane energy fields are conducted.

Only planets housing world-souls would also course with the arcane-supercharged fluid that functions as the lifeblood of a burgeoning titan, and is presumably much farther beneath the surface.

Obviously on a planet with no world-soul, the specific native arcane energies there aren't the lifeblood of a titan, as there's no titan there to be had. In the same vein neither are Azeroth's own leylines; they trace the planet's immediate subsurface, while the titan's actual blood was the far more potent stuff that erupted from deeper down when Y'shaarj was torn out.

All that being said, the lifeblood of a titan seemingly is pure arcane energy, albeit in such an intensely concentrated form that it exists as a consistently tangible liquid, which is presumably unique to those planets containing world-souls.
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:50 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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That is the logical error. A planet having arcane energy does not necessitate it being a titan.
This is a logical error. Arcane being the lifeblood of a titan is a definitive fact per Chronicle, so just how can a world have the lifeblood of a titan (which is a world) without being a titan (or a world with arcane)?

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Arcane being the lifeblood of a titan is a definitive fact per Chronicle.
No shit sherlock.

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Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
You believe Draenor is not a titan, but it has arcane ley lines, therefore you reject arcane being the titans' lifeblood. But that is not the only solution to the dilemma.
Actually, it is.

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The other solution is that something can have arcane and not be a titan. This second solution doesn't contradict a definitive fact.
No it isn't because we're talking about worlds here, not titanic constructs that are constructed with a titan's elements and channel arcane energies through their bodies. There is a difference between the term titan and the term titanic. Constructs that have arcane energies - the lifeblood of a titan - are technically titanic constructs - constructs of, from, or relating to, a titan. The titanic constructs are not titans even if they have arcane energies - the lifeblood of a titan - because they're not worlds. They're related and have the same "lifeblood", but they're not the same. So, my scrolls of lore poster, how can a world such as Argus have arcane energies - the lifeblood of a titan (which is a world) - without being a titan (or a world with the lifeblood of a titan)?

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Old 02-09-2017, 12:05 AM
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So, my scrolls of lore poster, how can a world such as Argus have arcane energies - the lifeblood of a titan (which is a world) - without being a titan (or a world with the lifeblood of a titan)?
Because you are making up definitions.

There are planets with ley lines that are not titans. A planet needs to be a titan to be a titan.
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:21 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Because you are making up definitions.
No I'm not you idiot.

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There are planets with ley lines that are not titans.
You still didn't answer the question: Just how can a world have the lifeblood (arcane energy) of a titan (a world) without being a titan (a world that has arcane energy)?

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A planet needs to be a titan to be a titan.
Your argument is pathetic and will never make sense because worlds can't actually be living (titans). "Can" implies that worlds are not living to begin with and have to become "living". If worlds can actually be living (titans), worlds can be dead (the Illidan novel definitely described worlds as dead a few times). And if worlds can be dead, what are the worlds that aren't living titans? Are they "born dead"?

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Old 02-09-2017, 12:36 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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You still didn't answer the question: Just how can a world have the lifeblood (arcane energy) of a titan (a world) without being a titan (a world that has arcane energy)?
Because arcane energies are not necessarily the lifeblood of a titan.

Just like water is not necessarily the lifeblood of a human.

But I have no doubt you will ignore this yet again.

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Old 02-09-2017, 12:42 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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arcane energies are not necessarily the lifeblood of a titan.
This is the response I was looking for. Thanks for stating something that conflicts with what the Chronicle establishes. Now, let the posters of scrolls of lore watch you do a 180 by claiming that arcane energies are the lifeblood of a titan.

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But I have not doubt you will ignore this yet again.
1) Not doubt? Please learn how to convey your point clearly.

2) You're accusing me of ignoring and are therefore accusing me of being ignorant? Oh, the irony! My very first post on this thread proposed that Argus is a titan UNLESS arcane energy isn't really the lifeblood of a titan. It seems that you, my ignorant scrolls of lore poster, ignored that "unless" part because you're what now? Ignorant. You're ignorant to the fact that the Chronicle is WRONG for claiming that arcane energy is the lifeblood of a titan and you're ignorant to the fact that the problem here isn't me. It's you and your refusal to accept that not everything that comes from Blizzard should be taken literally or seriously.

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Old 02-09-2017, 01:04 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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This is the answer I was looking for.



1) Not doubt? Please learn how to convey your point clearly.

2) My very first post on this thread proposed that Argus is a titan UNLESS arcane energy isn't really the lifeblood of a titan.
1) That answer has been there from the very beginning of this conversation. That's why I said I have no doubth you will ignore it yet again.

2) A typo.

3) Disproven. Since arcane energies are not necessarily the lifeblood of a titan, not every instance of arcane energies needs to be the lifeblood of a titan. Since not every instance of arcane energies needs to be the lifeblood of a titan, a world can have arcane energies without being a titan, even if arcane energies make the lifeblood of a titan.

Thus, Argus doesn't have to be a titan even if arcane energies are the lifeblood of a titan.

Last edited by Marthen; 02-09-2017 at 01:06 AM..
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Old 02-09-2017, 01:15 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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That's why I said I have no doubth you will ignore it yet again.
And that's why you're wrong. I didn't ignore it.

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3) Disproven. Since arcane energies are not neccessarily the lifeblood of a titan, not every instance of arcane energies needs to be the lifeblood of a titan. Since not every instance of arcane energies needs to be the lifeblood of a titan, a world can have arcane energies without being a titan, even if arcane energies make the lifeblood of a titan.

Thus, Argus doesn't have to be a titan even if arcane energies are the lifeblood of a titan.
Enough of your excuses and wishy washy nonsense. It's either arcane energy is literally the lifeblood of a titan OR it's not. It's either a titan is a world or a titan isn't a world. It's either a world with arcane energies is a titan or it's not. You're acting as if there are exceptions and that only some worlds with the "lifeblood of a titan" are titans. Like, who the fuck are you? Matt Burns? You don't get to claim there are exceptions to a rule that ultimately states that I'm right UNLESS you want me to mess with you. If arcane energy is literally the lifeblood of a titan and a titan is a world, a world with arcane energy is a titan. No exceptions. No excuses. If arcane energy isn't literally the lifeblood of a titan, we can drop this conversation right now. My point, since the beginning of this thread, is that Argus is a titan UNLESS arcane energy isn't literally the lifeblood of a titan, so I don't know why we seem to be arguing here. I believe we can actually agree here.

Is arcane energy literally the lifeblood of a titan? If it isn't, great, Argus can have arcane energy without being a titan and Blizzard's employees should have noted that arcane energy isn't literally the lifeblood of a titan.

Last edited by necrophotic; 02-09-2017 at 01:46 AM..
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hog is necromancy, speculation, warcraft, worlds can become undead?

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