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  #51  
Old 04-14-2013, 05:28 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
They have those demonic dogs in Blackrock depths, right? Think those could form good scouts.
Oooh, good idea.
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  #52  
Old 04-14-2013, 06:00 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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There are a couple things that I don't really like, but most of my complaints are just personal tastes, rather than objective reservations.

One is that it's a Bronzebeard tech tree, but is just as much about Gnomes. The other clans, which aren't as important as the Bronzebeards, will end up having more representation. Gnomes probably should have a presence, but it shouldn't be half of the Bronzebeard's presence.

I also don't much like that it takes one facet of the Bronzebeards and ignores the rest. No Warriors, no representation of Bronzebeard smithing in weapons or armor, no Mountain Kings, no Archaeology/Titans, no Light, no Rams, it's pretty much just tech. I think you were going for that, I'm just not a fan of the idea.

I do like the garrison idea. It shows the Bronzebeard's "turtle" nature, like hiding in Ironforge in the Second War. I like tunnels too.

As for Dark Irons, a good scout would just be a rogue or an assasin because of the underhanded nature of the Dark Irons.
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  #53  
Old 04-14-2013, 06:08 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
One is that it's a Bronzebeard tech tree, but is just as much about Gnomes. The other clans, which aren't as important as the Bronzebeards, will end up having more representation. Gnomes probably should have a presence, but it shouldn't be half of the Bronzebeard's presence.
I'm kind of toying with an alternate history idea right now, where during the Shattering the Council situation exploded into violence and started up a second War of the Three Hammers. Right now I'm working on this where all three clans are equally important, because they're the three main factions.

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I also don't much like that it takes one facet of the Bronzebeards and ignores the rest. No Warriors, no representation of Bronzebeard smithing in weapons or armor, no Mountain Kings, no Archaeology/Titans, no Light, no Rams, it's pretty much just tech. I think you were going for that, I'm just not a fan of the idea.
I added a War-Cleric unit as a healer (I may edit the initial post once I have a slightly more robust build), and Mountain Kings along with titanic Rune Priests are two ideas for Heroes I had (who you might note are absent). I didn't touch rams because I don't think a cavalry-heavy approach really works for the Bronzebeards, they're just not supposed to be really mobile outside of their airforce.

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As for Dark Irons, a good scout would just be a rogue or an assasin because of the underhanded nature of the Dark Irons.
I may use an assassin as a higher-level scouting/singe-target damage unit. I just have to think of something more to give them than stealth.

EDIT: Okay, here's my rough draft of a Dark Iron army.

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MECHANICS

Anima: This resource is unique to the Dark Iron clan and is used to produce many of their magical units and enact their rituals. Anima can be produced from sacrificing Slaves and from building Altars atop Places of Power.

Place of Power: Fiery crevasses, active ley lines, and places of concentrated spirit dot the lands of Azeroth, and the Dark Iron clan knows how to harness the power they contain. Places of Power cannot be produced, but nor can they be destroyed except through exhausting them of all harvestable Anima.

UNITS

Slaves: Produced at the Spire. These broken wretches are the labor force of the Dark Iron clan. Constantly generated at the Spire and supplemented by the use of Taskmasters, at any point in time they can be reassigned to a Mine, building site, or Altar.

Taskmaster: Produced at the Barracks. Taskmasters may lack martial might, but they more than make up for that in cruelty. Any foe that dies within reach of a taskmaster faces the possibility of being denied the release of death in lieu of being bound in chains and sent to the Spire as a Slave.

Saboteur: Produced at the Barracks. Saboteurs are lightly-armored infantry who specialize in highly damaging attacks from behind the enemy’s defensive perimeter. Though not the most well armed or armored of melee units, their low cost and extreme flexibility of movement brought about by use of Mole Machines means they can be a potent force if utilized properly.

Mole Machine: Produced at the Barracks. When these ingenious vehicles are assembled their crew stays on standby inside the Barracks. When ordered to deploy a point on the map is selected which the Mole Machine then tunnels to before bursting from the earth and disgorging its team of Saboteurs. By default Mole Machines can carry up to eight Saboteurs, but this number can be upgraded to twelve. The Saboteurs are released four at a time, and can be recalled back to the Mole Machine at any time for a retreat. While deployed the Machine is vulnerable to attack, and if destroyed any Saboteurs it contains will die as well, with already deployed Saboteurs having no way to retreat.

Assassin: Produced at the Barracks. Subtlety, cruelty, and death and the watchwords of the Dark Iron Assassin. Wielding daggers forged from their clan’s namesake metal, Assassins sneak about under the cover of darkness, just waiting for a chance to slaughter any unwary foes. While attacking a foe removes their Stealth, that first assault deals such enormous damage that weaker foes will be killed outright. While they can Vanish on a moderate cooldown, for the most part Assassins must escape the line of sight of any foes before they can return to Stealth.

Golem: Produced at the Foundry. Golems are slow but powerful front-line units produced using Anima. When defeated Golems enter an “inert” state where they will begin to repair themselves back to basic working order. They must be fully destroyed during this time in order to properly “kill” them for good.

Cultist: Produced at the Altar. Practitioners of dark elemental magic, Cultists serve many purposes in the Dark Iron army, from Anima collection to healing. When near an Altar Cultists can Sacrifice Slaves to generate Anima in respectably large chunks. Furthermore, when in battle Cultists can use their Soul Siphon to generate Anima from any fallen combatants, be they friend or foe. At a small cost to Anima a Cultist can cast Incite upon a target area, healing any friendly units in the area and increasing their attack and movement speed temporarily.

Fire Elemental: Produced at the Altar. Fire Elementals are potent ranged combatants produced using Anima. Fire elemental attacks Ignite the foe, reducing their armor and causing them to take damage over time. When defeated Fire Elementals Combust, Igniting and damaging everything around them in a fiery explosion.

Bloodhound: Produced at the Kennel. Bloodhounds are fierce beasts capable of ranging far afield to track the enemies of the Dark Iron clan. Their bites inflict their foes with a Crippling Wound, slowing their movement speed.

Hellhound: Produced at the Altar. Burning fiends from the Firelands, Hellhounds are born from the ritual sacrifice of a Bloodhound that has tasted mortal flesh and infused with dark Anima. Their molten fangs inflict their foes with a Searing Wound, which deals continuous fire damage to the afflicted over time.

Core Hound: Produced at the Flamegate. Core Hounds are made from the unholy fusion of two bloodied Hellhounds in a union steeped in Anima. In stark contrast to their previous forms, Core Hounds are bulky and slow, trading their rangy speed for thick hides and a pair of crushing maws. Despite the danger of their teeth however, the true danger of the Core Hound comes from their ability to belch forth elemental flame in a wide cone of burning death.

Fire Hawk: Produced at the Flamegate. Fire Hawks are the flame-wreathed bones of dragons given life anew by the will of Fire and the influence of Anima. Their blazing talons can inflict fierce wounds upon any flying foes unfortunate enough to be caught in melee range, and they are capable of kicking up cyclones of flame that ravage the ground below for a short time.

Twilight Dragon: Produced at the Spire. These winged abominations can only be produced at the fully-upgraded Spire and cost an enormous amount of Anima to create. Their cruel fangs and talons shred airborne foes to tatters while their violet flames wreath the ground below, leaving wide swathes of burning earth in their wake. When pressed on all sides they are even capable of releasing a potent Twilight Burst that deals unmitigatable magical damage to all foes around them.

STRUCTURES

Spire: The basic Dark Iron structure. Only one Spire may exist at a time and it must be built on a Place of Power. Slaves automatically generate at the Spire and any Captured Slaves appear there automatically. The Spire constantly generates Anima at a rate slightly faster than that of an Altar, but Slaves cannot be Sacrificed at the Spire. The Spire has three upgrade stages, which are purchased using increasingly greater amounts of Anima.

Barracks: Dark, dingy, and crowded, these squat structures are responsible for the production of the Dark Iron clan’s more mundane units, such as Taskmasters, Saboteurs, Mole Machines, and Assassins.

Foundry: These enormous forges serve as both the production site of Dark Iron Golems as well as the center where upgrades are researched for Barracks units, Golems, and buildings.

Kennel: Bloodhounds are ill-tempered, violent beasts, and one look at the Kennel reveals why. Less a building than a spike-ringed pit, the kennels serve as a crucible from whence only the fiercest of beasts emerge. The most effective way to train Bloodhounds is using live prey, which is why the strategic addition of a slave to the Kennel results in a marked increase to the dogs’ training speed.

Altar: Altars are intricate magical installations built over Places of Power to harness the Anima they produce. Here Cultists can be trained to supplement the Dark Iron army and speed the production of Anima yet further by draining it from the veins of Slaves. It is also here where Fire Elementals can be summoned, and Hellhounds shaped from Bloodhounds, and upgrades for all the aforementioned units can be purchased.

Flamegate: These swirling circles of burning energy are portals to the Firelands themselves. Upgraded from an Altar, Flamegates lose the ability to generate Anima and train Cultists, but gain the ability to summon and upgrade the most powerful denizens of fire that the Dark Irons can command.

Last edited by Volkrin; 04-15-2013 at 07:34 AM..
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  #54  
Old 04-15-2013, 03:01 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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I'm not one of the people who likes the idea of WoW being retconned out for WC4, but I would be okay with it being declared a separate timeline. Let's face it, it would be very difficult to continue the story from WoW into WC4 because so much dramatic tension has been lost in the interim.

Maybe a separate timeline each for books, comics, WoW, regular WC games...
I'd be more than happy with a separate continuity.
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  #55  
Old 04-15-2013, 04:27 AM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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I'd be more than happy with a separate continuity.
I'm thinking Cata would be a good break point. Jacking up the violence and destruction that the event caused would be an excellent way of reshaping the world into a new paradigm.
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  #56  
Old 04-15-2013, 04:41 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Honestly, not sure if there should be a specific breaking point. Warcraft I through III all contradict each other to da max, and are thematically quite different. Plus, while I like vanilla, it was flawed as politics. Selecting a rough portion of history to start the alternate continuity and then gobbling together a backstory in the lore from previous materials would be my preferred approach.
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  #57  
Old 04-15-2013, 04:44 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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I'm thinking Cata would be a good break point. Jacking up the violence and destruction that the event caused would be an excellent way of reshaping the world into a new paradigm.
Eh I could tolerate Vanilla, but anything beyond that is too crappy for me.

However do note that there is no reason the two continuities can't share some elements even if those elements came after the point of divergence.

For example the RTS continuity could take on some of the Pandaren lore crafted for the MMO even if the plot events of MoP are discarded, that sort of thing.
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  #58  
Old 04-15-2013, 06:11 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Eh I could tolerate Vanilla, but anything beyond that is too crappy for me.

However do note that there is no reason the two continuities can't share some elements even if those elements came after the point of divergence.

For example the RTS continuity could take on some of the Pandaren lore crafted for the MMO even if the plot events of MoP are discarded, that sort of thing.
Perhaps the thing to do is to take the big events throughout the course of the MMO's history and turn those into campaigns. Stuff like the Scarab Wall opening up, the big surge into Blackrock Mountain... hell, Blackrock Mountain could be a whole campaign unto itself with all the different crap you've got inside.

Because in WoW, it's the Might of Kalimdor that defeats the Qiraji. But in an RTS, you could have that be a wholly Horde offensive, where the story starts with the Silithid incursions in the Barrens, continues with escalating hive discoveries in Thousand Needles, Tanaris, and Un'goro Crater, and then have a series of stages in Silithus itself building up to the Scarab War, and then have the final boss be C'thun, deep inside a huge level with a ton of high-level creeps all around.

Any serious design for an actual WC4 is going to acknowledge that the big events like the Scarab War, the Outland/Northrend/Pandaria campaigns, and the Shattering all took place, because Blizzard isn't going to write out those events. But there's a lot of play to be had in exactly how those events played out.
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  #59  
Old 04-15-2013, 08:47 AM
Arashi Arashi is offline

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How about we take a page Starcraft 2: Wings of Awesome.

Instead of relying on past glory, we look to the future and make new adventures.
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  #60  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:49 AM
Khyrberos Khyrberos is offline

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Originally Posted by Volkrin
I didn't touch rams because I don't think a cavalry-heavy approach really works for the Bronzebeards, they're just not supposed to be really mobile outside of their airforce.
Well, yes and no. I think just about every faction should have cavalry in one form or another (an army just would), but differentiation & sticking to Theme/Role is quite important. However, Cavalry != mobility, necessarily. In fact, I could envision a pretty schweet Dwarven Ram Rider that was sort of a cross between the Orcish Raider & Kodo Beast; powerful, heavy, slow (slightly faster than infantry, yes, but), with excellent defensive/supportive and sieging capabilities.

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Okay, here's my rough draft of a Dark Iron army.
Wow. Not too shabby. The sign of a good race-design is that it should be able to 'tell the story' of that faction to the uninitiated. And as one who barely has an idea what the Dark Iron clan is all about, I can say that this does it. I'm rather curious as to where some of your ideas come from; they are just presented so plainly and clearly. More importantly, I'm curious as to wai u no mod Warcraft3? We could really use people like you.

One lexicographic note:
Quote:
Fire Hawks are the flame-wreathed bones of dragons
Was this meant to be a Hawk, or a Dragon? Or a Hawk made of Dragons? Might I suggest the term "Hellkite" (connotations of dragon-ness, but sufficiently general enough to mean "flying thing of death" )?
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Last edited by Khyrberos; 04-16-2013 at 08:53 AM..
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  #61  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:18 AM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Wow. Not too shabby. The sign of a good race-design is that it should be able to 'tell the story' of that faction to the uninitiated. And as one who barely has an idea what the Dark Iron clan is all about, I can say that this does it. I'm rather curious as to where some of your ideas come from; they are just presented so plainly and clearly. More importantly, I'm curious as to wai u no mod Warcraft3? We could really use people like you.
Well, the idea for this army is basically just that when the Catacysm occurred, instead of the three dwarven clans coming together in the Council of Three Hammers they instead broke apart into a full-on war. With no alternatives, the Dark Iron clan threw in with the Twilight Cult, hence the dragons and cultists.

As for modding, I've just never really thought of it before.

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One lexicographic note:

Was this meant to be a Hawk, or a Dragon? Or a Hawk made of Dragons? Might I suggest the term "Hellkite" (connotations of dragon-ness, but sufficiently general enough to mean "flying thing of death" )?
Fire Hawks are elemental creatures you find in the Firelands. They're called hawks because they strongly resemble the birds, but I note them as being born from dragon bones because the most visible Fire Hawk is Alysrazor, who was originally the dragon Alysra, and whose transformation seems to be the strongest evidence as to where the Fire Hawks originally came from. That being said, they are capable of laying eggs that birth naturally-born (for a given value of "natural) Fire Hawk chicks, so I'm not one-hundred percent certain on this matter.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:20 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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I'm thinking that, like stone and storm drakes, fire hawks are amongst the proto-protodrakes.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:29 PM
Khyrberos Khyrberos is offline

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As for modding, I've just never really thought of it before.
Then perhaps we should talk... About stuff... : )

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Originally Posted by Volkrin
Fire Hawks are elemental creatures you find in the Firelands. They're called hawks because they strongly resemble the birds, but I note them as being born from dragon bones because the most visible Fire Hawk is Alysrazor, who was originally the dragon Alysra, and whose transformation seems to be the strongest evidence as to where the Fire Hawks originally came from. That being said, they are capable of laying eggs that birth naturally-born (for a given value of "natural) Fire Hawk chicks, so I'm not one-hundred percent certain on this matter.
Ahhhh... That makes a lot more sense. Sorry, me and my "never really played WoW"-ness really stick out like a sore thumb on this website. :<
That being said, even though it's in-game and everything, I've never had a dire love for the way WoW handles things. I would still heavily push for a "Hellkite" name in such a techtree; just... ahhh, perfect.
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  #64  
Old 04-21-2013, 04:46 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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I'd like to continue my old faction idea.

The Wizards - this "faction" encompasses cultures primarily associated with modern art of arcane magic, most prominently Dalaran and Quel'Thalas. It's mostly a group of glass cannons - frail units with many useful and powerful abilities, requiring a great amount of micromanagement.

The base form is united Dalaran forces, other skins are the "bloodless" Dalaran and the humanless blood elven Quel'Thalas.

The faction's main hero is the Archmage of ambiguous race, while other spots are taken by the elven Blood Mage, the gnome Magitek, and the human Eldritch Knight. Non-bloodelf version trades the Blood Mage for a high elven Astromancer, while the blood elven version changes Eldritch Knight into Warmage, while Magitek simply becomes a driverless golem.

The primary infantry unit is a spellsword, light armed melee infantry with little health and not enough hit points, but with a blink teleportating spell and a ranged arcane missile spell. Upgrading spellswords into protectors trades teleportation for better armor and a protective shield, while the farstriders/rangers upgrade will put the emphasis on speed, alowing for a quicker missile recharge, more mana, "shadowmeld" ability, but same sucky defense.

If you prefer direct shooter approach, then choose the spellslinger, an arcane archer able to use both regular arrows and arcane missiles like the spellsword. However, an upgrade strips them out of it, leaving you to choose one of the elemental types: the speed-lowering frost archer, the heavily damaging fire archer, or the quick wind archer.

But the true strength of faction lies with its Arcane Sanctum units... More on that later!
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:23 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Okay, so I kinda hit a stumbling block in my idea when I realized that I had no blind, bloody clue what to do with the Wildhammers. They just don't have the same diversity or exposure as either the Bronzebeard or the Dark Irons. So because of that I ended up kinda broadening my perspective to a whole new scope of possibilities, namely: a worldwide war, broken up into three self-contained sections.

The first section would be between the Khaz Modan Alliance (comprised of the Bronzebeards, Wildhammers, and Gnomeregan), the Twilight (comprised of the Dark Irons, black dragons, elementals, and various cultists), and the Forsaken (I'm not actually certain whether to include Quel'Thalas here). The story is somewhat similar to what I had before, where the Cataclysm is distinctly more cataclysmic, and the forces behind it are far more active. The Dark Irons throw in utterly with the Twilights, and the Forsaken rampage threatens to cross the Thandol Span. All three theaters follow that pattern: one Alliance faction, one Horde faction, one Twilight/Old God faction.

Down south Stormwind has its own problems. Naga rise from the sea with the intent to obliterate the land dwelling humans, while from the jungles to the south a whole new force emerges: the Golden Fleet. Vol'jin, fearing for his people's safety if they stayed under Garrosh's control, joined with the Golden Fleet of the Zandalari and the other tribes who had joined them and traveled east in the hopes of carving out a homeland in Stranglethorn Vale. All three forces clash, with Stormwind and the trolls fighting for control of the land, and the naga fighting to destroy it outright. I think this set of factions would have a pretty heavy naval focus.

Finally, in Kalimdor, a war to end all wars is occurring. The entire remaining might of Horde directly under Garrosh's control fights against the Kalimdor Alliance. From the south, unexpected an unprepared for by both, is an old enemy long thought defeated - the Quiraji. Having slaughtered their way up the continent, and bolstered by other minions of the Old Gods, the insectoid abominations strike deep into the heart of the conflict between the two superpowers.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:55 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Most of my ideas involve heroes.

Eastern Alliance:
The Crusader (Paladin type, although more of an emphasis on buffing, with a seal of some sort rather than that self serving shield).

The Archmage (didn't feel the need to mess with this one much)

The Prospector (Dwarf defensive hero, wields a pickaxe, has an aura that speeds up gold mining, a shot gun for an ability, and uses the Avatar ability as well).

The Trickster (Gnomish Tech mage, combining illusions and explosives)

Eastern Horde:
The Plaguemaster (sort of a lich, uses plague intead of death and decay, as well as a damage over time "infection" ability, possibly some healing as well).
The Valkyr (key part of Sylvanases war effort, raises enemy dead into forsaken, possibly good for buffing as well).
The Blood Knight (Vengeance themed paladin, retribution aura, some smiting, maybe a light of dawn type AOE)
The Blood Mage (Either as it already is, or maybe a light themed mage to correlate with the new sunwell).

Western Horde:
Farseer (I don't see much change happening here, but I could be wrong).
The Warlord (riding hero, brings the bloodlust, possibly a pillage aura)
Troll Shadowhunter (Not much change required)
Tauren Elder (combo shammy-druid, very strong nature powers).

Western Alliance:
Priestess of Elune (Not looking for a ton of change)
Archdruid (comes with tree-form as it's ultimate ability, which is possibly the most powerful and most durable healer in the game)
Anchorite (Priest that also summons Draenei spirits to help)
Huntsman (Worgen hunter with a transformation ability that creates a powerful melee hero).

Neutral
Elven Ranger (represents BE's if horde, HE's if Alliance, so make it hirable to both, Good for tracking enemies and ranged damage).
Death Knight (not a whole lot of change required).
Goblin Alchemist
Dragon Mage (Transformation as ultimate ability, otherwise uses abilities based on color).
Eredar Warlock (Demon summoning hero with metamorphosis as ultimate ability).
Pandaren Brewmaster (not much explanation required I'm sure).
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  #67  
Old 05-01-2013, 06:03 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Economy-centric and non-combat effecting hero abilities are a really cool idea. Auras seem iffy to me though, when you're talking about a hero with four abilities that you're actively micro managing it feels kinda unsatisfying to spend a point on something so passive.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:50 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Economy-centric and non-combat effecting hero abilities are a really cool idea. Auras seem iffy to me though, when you're talking about a hero with four abilities that you're actively micro managing it feels kinda unsatisfying to spend a point on something so passive.
I can see where you're coming from with that. Perhaps a "Prospect" ability that increases the amount of gold inside the mine, or an auto-cast "Motivate" ability that increases the speed of your peasants.

Horde could have the Goblin Overseer, who can bribe enemies and can increase the speed of lumber cutting.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:05 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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I can see where you're coming from with that. Perhaps a "Prospect" ability that increases the amount of gold inside the mine, or an auto-cast "Motivate" ability that increases the speed of your peasants.

Horde could have the Goblin Overseer, who can bribe enemies and can increase the speed of lumber cutting.
That sounds great. Being able to kick your entire economy into overdrive when you need to could be a really interesting strategic element. Used like that, "economy" heroes could be a really cool gameplay niche.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:05 AM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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The idea of Horde/Alliance/Old God split is especially interesting for me.

Echoes WC3 and SC.
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:16 AM
AndyJP AndyJP is offline

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I just don't understand why it has taken so long for anybody to come out with a decent Warcraft mod for Starcraft 2. I know that A New Dawn is still in development but shit it has been forever and I am not patient!
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:32 AM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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I just don't understand why it has taken so long for anybody to come out with a decent Warcraft mod for Starcraft 2. I know that A New Dawn is still in development but shit it has been forever and I am not patient!
I was thinking about engaging something like that and then I realised what would have to be done:

1) Importing or making Warcraft models into Starcraft format
2) Making from the ground up the whole Warcraft-fitting database
3) If you're not importing WC3 ruleset, you have to spend time balancing your new ruleset
4) Don't forget making terrains and doodads relevant.

In short, you'd be practically making a whole new game using old game's engine. If done by fans, it would take years to produce anything playable and then it'd probably get shut down by Blizzard like that SC mod for WC3.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:44 AM
Khyrberos Khyrberos is offline

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@Volkrin & Menel'dirion:
Quite an interesting set of an ideas, but one must watch out when it comes to economy-affecting. Think about it; a passive "better Gold Mining" aura basically ensures that your hero is relegated to "sticking around Base" if you have any hope of maximizing your income (which of course, you must do ). Useless hero (aside from base defense, which with Avatar & a shotgun, it doesn't seem he should be). Or at least, useless in terms of standard Wc3-heroes, which were always made to be out campaigning. Quite useful in an (altered) melee/alternative Warcraft, if there are other options. Or if the game is built that way (i.e. each race has access to a racial "economy/base-defense" hero (Dwarven Prospector, Goblin Overseer, Kobold Miner, Night Elven Naturalist (wood too), Human Outrider, Gnomish Researcher, Troll Hunter-Gatherer, Tauren Tentsetter, Orcish Mineslayer... hahaha, this is too much fun.).

TL;DR, there's a reason there aren't many heroes like that or spells like that in the game (Pillage, Transmute, ... That's it, I think). Difficult to balance, and if they exist, then everyone has to have access to them, or else it's imbalanced (unless that's part of the balance-triangle; must be compensated for).

On that note;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkrin
Being able to kick your entire economy into overdrive when you need to could be a really interesting strategic element.
I used to think so as well. However, the release of Starcraft 2 has really disabused me of that notion. Think about it. What are the MULE, Queen, and Chrono Boost all made for? Temporary/player-controlled economy boost (in the case of the Queen, a troop-production boost as well). At least In My Humble Opinion, this aspect alone makes Sc2 much more difficult & less fun than originally. I spend all my time as a player frantically ensuring I am "keeping up with the Joneses" in terms of economy by continually using my racial econ-boost. Anytime I get distracted (by, oh I dunno, a BATTLE or a CRAFT or a STAR ), I instantly feel guilt when I realize I've forgotten. Is that how we want players to feel?

Just my opinion, though. Perhaps other people really like having the option. Lemme know in the comments below. : )

~~~

I too agree. I'm actually not a huge fan of Demons, so Old Gods is a great way to get a 3rd faction. Three-faction "rock-paper-scissors" FTW.
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If you're interested in creating custom factions & heroes in Warcraft 3, I mod that over at The Hive Workshop (Also at Wc3C.net).

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Old 05-09-2013, 04:45 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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If economy heroes were a thing I think having them on every faction would definitely be prudent, but your point on having to micromanage your resource gathering definitely has merit. Perhaps making the abilities more about base development could be better. Maybe allow the prospector - for example - to boost the amount of gold in a mine, or even create one as a once-per-game thing. A tinker could maybe create special buildings, or create zones with different buffs and debuffs using alchemical gasses.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:23 AM
Khyrberos Khyrberos is offline

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On that note, what about the Trolls? We've all been talking Dwarves, but everyone knows the Gurubashi'll rise again to form a vast steamy jungle Empire as before. Heck, the Darkspear Rebellion only proves it's more than possible.

What kinda tech do they have? Are they more Maya-Inca-Aztec-themed, or closer to African tribes? "Eagle/Jaguar Warriors", medicine men, dart-wall traps, etc etc.
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If you're interested in creating custom factions & heroes in Warcraft 3, I mod that over at The Hive Workshop (Also at Wc3C.net).

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