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Old 09-21-2017, 11:26 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Gurzog View Post
why is my favourite time in warcraft story the stuff from the start of the second war to the end of like wc3???
Horde times of glory.
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  #13352  
Old 09-21-2017, 11:31 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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there are 2 new ones argus intro and argus outro, all else is from 7.3
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:32 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Horde times of glory.
actually my favorite parto f that timeline is when Horde is defeated. so post second war up to well archimondes death.
  #13354  
Old 09-21-2017, 11:39 AM
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"Then let us begin. You have been a remarkable student thus far, Alleria Windrunner. But you have barely touched the Shadow. To truly understand your destiny, you must become one with it." The ethereal's power pulsed softly. "And that is where the danger lies. You see the Void as an enemy. It sees you the same way. For now. Its very nature is hostile to what you know as life and sanity." The blackness around them seemed to shift. "But without the Shadow, you would have never been alive at all."

"You already understand one truth, Alleria. The Light is blind. It cannot see the whole of destiny, because it alone is not responsible for it. Your path was shrouded by Shadow, and thus it was hidden from the Light." The strength of his words gave her an anchor to cling to as the torrents of darkness tossed her about. "Now understand another truth. The Shadow is just as blind. It saw your fate intertwining with its own, and it rejoiced. But it, too, sees only a fragment of destiny. But that fragment is unlike anything you've known before."
Interesting. Interesting.

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She saw the Light moving through the cosmos like a ravenous predator. She saw it touch the minds of Azeroth's mortals—a touch that corrupted them forever. She saw generations live and die in invisible chains, bound to a force that granted them fleeting moments of peace in exchange for absolute obedience.

She saw war. She saw the forces of the Light striking back against the Void. She saw darkened worlds burning in holy fire. She saw millions of creatures encased in luminous crystals the size of mountains, sustained by the Light and unable to die. Warriors of the Light were monsters, corrupting and consuming everything they touched.
Oh fuck. So, that's how the Void sees things?

Quote:
The Locus-Walker kept her firmly afloat. "You have known the Shadow as nothing but horrors. The Shadow sees the Light in the same way. Neither viewpoint is true. Neither is wrong." The roar of the Void nearly drowned him out. The masters of the Void were clawing at her mind. She barely fought them off. "The Light seeks one path and shuns all others as lies. The Shadow seeks every possible path and sees them all as truth."
EDIT: Coincidentally, this is almost exactly what I meant about the Light being idealistic, and believing there's a proper way for things, while the Shadow cares not about direction and just seeks "more... more... more...". I was right about practically everything.

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Virtues count for nothing if you stray from the path the Light has chosen for you.
Alleria Windrunner. Will you renounce the Void and pledge obedience to the Light?
No, Alleria. You will not. You will remain here, imprisoned, until you accept the path of righteousness once again. I will not allow you to taint what I have foreseen.
Xe'ra isn't looking too friendly here. It's pretty clear she knows the destiny she's foreseen can be wrong, especially if the Shadow intervenes. Because destiny is shaped by both forces.

Last edited by Krakhed; 09-21-2017 at 12:12 PM..
  #13355  
Old 09-21-2017, 12:19 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Gurzog View Post
actually my favorite parto f that timeline is when Horde is defeated. so post second war up to well archimondes death.
It's still glory compared to now
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  #13356  
Old 09-21-2017, 12:41 PM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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I suppose this isn't Legion-related, but in case you missed it, Samwise Didier is doing an AMA on /r/wow.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...r_at_blizzard/
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  #13357  
Old 09-21-2017, 12:50 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I agree that those aspects are bad, but not that they "ruined" it.
They have a very negative impact on game play. A lot of the other content is great.
  #13358  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:07 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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So the audio drama reiterates that demons that die on Argus do not come back.

Can we take this as the final word on the matter? It seems there has been some confusion about this lately.
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  #13359  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:10 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
So the audio drama reiterates that demons that die on Argus do not come back.

Can we take this as the final word on the matter? It seems there has been some confusion about this lately.
Multiple quests on Argus and various NPCs refer to demons regenerating when killed on Argus, so if anything I'd say the audio drama is establishing that letting demons regenerate even if killed in the nether is Argus the Unmaker's purpose.
  #13360  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:22 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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But i thought Argus' purpose was to have demons respawn at all? Isn't this why we attack the throne? To stop all demons accross the cosmos from respawning, thus ending the whole "infinity"-angle of the Legion?
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  #13361  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:28 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
But i thought Argus' purpose was to have demons respawn at all? Isn't this why we attack the throne? To stop all demons accross the cosmos from respawning, thus ending the whole "infinity"-angle of the Legion?
I never saw it that way.
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  #13362  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:31 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
But i thought Argus' purpose was to have demons respawn at all? Isn't this why we attack the throne? To stop all demons accross the cosmos from respawning, thus ending the whole "infinity"-angle of the Legion?
If that's the case, then a large portion of Chronicle Vol. 1, and almost all of Sargeras' origin, is no longer canon.
  #13363  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:37 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
If that's the case, then a large portion of Chronicle Vol. 1, and almost all of Sargeras' origin, is no longer canon.
But then where is all this "no more Legion" stuff coming from? If we just imprison their boss does that truly end the threat the Legion poses? They'd still have an endless army.
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  #13364  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:37 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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I also understood it as the Unmaker is what's letting them respawn on Argus specifically.
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Old 09-21-2017, 01:47 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
But then where is all this "no more Legion" stuff coming from? If we just imprison their boss does that truly end the threat the Legion poses? They'd still have an endless army.
The Eredar are defeated and it was them that established order in the Legion. Without them the demons that are left will be small rogue groups.

Last edited by Leviathon; 09-21-2017 at 01:50 PM..
  #13366  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:48 PM
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Poor Ishanah. There go my Argus restoration hopes.

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
These ones are new:

<View the Escape from Argus.>
<Recall the summoning of Argus the Unmaker>
<Recall the imprisoning of Sargeras>
Escape from Argus is the cutscene where Hatuun sacrifices himself.
  #13367  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:55 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Mending View Post
Poor Ishanah. There go my Argus restoration hopes.



Escape from Argus is the cutscene where Hatuun sacrifices himself.
I was hoping for a restored Argus too.
  #13368  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:58 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Interesting that the Void/Shadow's intent to corrupt a titan isn't the only thing the Legion's fighting; apparently there are actual armies of the Shadow attacking the demons.

(Which makes it sad that we're seeing an end to the Legion already, so we'll probably never actually get to see them fighting each other. Argus is good for what it is, but frankly what it is boils down to the potential for exploring many worlds and facing the Legion, Void and whatever else is out there, reduced to three zones and a half-dozen large "rooms" using environments and mobs we've already seen before.)

I wonder if those dead demons Alleria encounters are supposed to have been killed by some invasion of void spawn like Dimensius, Faceless/Aqir-style servants of an Old God, or mortal adherents of the Shadow like the Shadowguard in Mac'aree.

Xe'ra's stance on Shadow makes me think the logical continuation of her mission after defeating the Legion would have been trying to get rid it of the Void her way and ultimately undoing creation as we know it anyway. The only reason there is a reality is because the Light and Void are both around; if either force wins the universe effectively ceases to be. Hell, maybe the only reason she opposes the Legion is because Sargeras' mission has been doomed all along to end up playing into the Void Lords' hands instead of actually accomplishing what he made it to do.

After all, Sargeras didn't even know the Void was a "thing" with its own agenda before finding those Old Gods, yet now we know per Lothraxion that the Void is actively invading all over the place, to the point of the Legion battling its forces across the cosmos. It went from the titans not even knowing it was a self-aware force to the Legion hunting it left-and-right. That almost sounds like maybe by stomping all over the forces of Light, the Legion's efforts to eventually drive back the Void have been inadvertently causing he Shadow to proliferate more by tipping the scales of universal balance in its favor.

Also the other naaru by their very nature seem to kind of violate her hardline rejection of Shadow; they're even the ones who told us we need both Light and Void together for anything to exist. Makes me wonder if Xe'ra might turn out to have been the only naaru leading her Army of the Light because she cast off her lesser kin as failed creations due to their Light/Void cycle making them fundamentally "impure." The Sha'tar and the naaru of the Genedar just plain don't seem like parts of her vision; even the draenei are only involved by dint of being on Azeroth, rather than being sought out by her like those in the AoL apparently were (whenever and wherever that was.)
  #13369  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:02 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Also the other naaru by their very nature seem to kind of violate her hardline rejection of Shadow; they're even the ones who told us we need both Light and Void together for anything to exist. Makes me wonder if Xe'ra might turn out to have been the only naaru leading her Army of the Light because she cast off her lesser kin as failed creations due to their Light/Void cycle making them fundamentally "impure." The Sha'tar and the naaru of the Genedar just plain don't seem like parts of her vision; even the draenei are only involved by dint of being on Azeroth, rather than being sought out by her like those in the AoL apparently were (whenever and wherever that was.)
Don't forget how Velen says Xe'ra was actively deceiving the Army of the Light on the true nature of the naaru and the fact that the AotL draenei are only vaguely aware of Tempest Keep and the Sha'tar according to the Arcatraz quest.
  #13370  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:15 PM
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So I guess Alleria's arrow was in Shadowmoon Burial Grounds because she stopped there during her search for Locus-Walker. I wonder when, and if we were there at the same time or not.
  #13371  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:20 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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The Eredar are defeated and it was them that established order in the Legion.
If Legion respawn isn't stopped alltogether, they will be back. Mephistroph will be back, as well as Tichondrius and all the other Dreadlords. Archimonde will eventually be back (he, too, died nowhere near Argus) and he would take full control over the Legion.

It just doesn't make sense this way. The conflict would just continue.
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  #13372  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:27 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
It just doesn't make sense this way. The conflict would just continue.
Ask yourself this one question. For what purpose? On whose orders? How many of them actually care about hunting down all the World Souls to end the threat of the Void? How many are just enslaved to the Legion by the threat of Sargeras or Kil'Jaedan's wrath?

If god is dead, who continues the crusade?

Last edited by Krakhed; 09-21-2017 at 02:30 PM..
  #13373  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:33 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
If Legion respawn isn't stopped alltogether, they will be back. Mephistroph will be back, as well as Tichondrius and all the other Dreadlords. Archimonde will eventually be back (he, too, died nowhere near Argus) and he would take full control over the Legion.

It just doesn't make sense this way. The conflict would just continue.
This story doesn't resolve the lore dispute about Argus.

After the end of the raid, the Legion as an organized army that carries out Sargeras's will is over. They'll just be demons doing their own thing. Even if there are loyalists, it'll be a fraction of what the universe has had to deal with.
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  #13374  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:36 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
A

If god is dead, who continues the crusade?
As i said, Archimonde will. He craves power more than anything. What better way to get more power than by becoming the overlord of an endless horde of demons?
And, let's face it, Sargeras had been the Legion's leader in name only for the past few eons. Most if not all of the actual leadership duties were carried out by Archimonde and Kil'jaeden already.

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Even if there are loyalists, it'll be a fraction of what the universe has had to deal with.
A fraction of infinity is still infinity.
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Last edited by spidey1980; 09-21-2017 at 02:39 PM..
  #13375  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:39 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
As i said, Archimonde will. He craves power more than anything. What better way to get more power than by becoming the overlord of an endless horde of demons?
And, let's face it, Sargeras had been the Legion's leader in name only for the past few eons. Most if not all of the actual leadership duties were carried out by Archimonde and Kil'jaeden already.
Sure, Archimonde craves power, but how much does he care about the Burning Crusade itself? How eager is he to fight the Void and exterminate all life? Does he even give a shit about their grand mission? Couldn't he become even more powerful by changing the mission of the Legion to something that personally benefited himself more?
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