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View Poll Results: Which of these allied race combos would you prefer?
Vrykul (A)/MU Clans (H) 11 28.21%
Kul Tirans (A)/MU Clans (H) 16 41.03%
Kul Tirans (A)/AU Clans (H) 9 23.08%
Vrykul (A)/AU Clans (H) 3 7.69%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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  #876  
Old 02-17-2018, 04:22 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
I wasn't aware they had joined a faction.
Unlike any other race in the game, they joined both factions. It's not like Tushui or Huojin are different from common pandaren, they don't need a lot of their own lore, as they draw most of it from the comunal pandaren lore pool.

Most of what they need are updates on their status and outlooks now that they belong to a faction.

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
And the pandaren demonstrate my point. The ones who signed the dotted line to pick a player faction immediately became completely irrelevant to the pandaren lore from that moment forward, and only appeared again as tertiary appendages in the faction conflict.
I think the pandaren is quite a unique case and can't be lumped together with the rest of the races. They got a massive amount of lore in their introduction, the groups that joined factions are just tiny orders.

They don't need any setup lore, all they lack is exposure once they joined.

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Join a faction, and a race gets demoted from being its own big thing to being a slot in the faction's tech tree. And tromping through the racial zone(s) early on basically amounts to bidding an extended farewell to what made the race unique and interesting.
Yeah, it's sad. Blizzard needs to balance race exposure better and update racial status more often.

But it's better to be playable than the contrary. With very few exceptions (like Arakkoa), NPC races get their lore, if any, in their introduction expansion, then are forgotten in the same way. At least playable races keep appearing here and there, and have a chance of eventually be remembered by Blizzard. It took four expansions, but eventually the draenei got some love, right?

That chance is better than nothing.
Arakkoa, for all their lore, will be forgotten from now on. If they were playable, at least we would see them sometimes, and could even have a chance of getting a storyline, big or small, centered on them at some point.

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Which is especially sad in the case of the void elves, because while the other Allied Races at least have a bunch of prior lore development to look back on fondly as they melt into the roster of multiracial grunts and footmen, there isn't all that much to void elves before they enlist in the Alliance, so we'll probably only see further development for them when the Void takes center stage as the primary threat and some of them take a mechanical break from being Alliance draenei-style to hand out quests to both factions. Until then they'll likely be too busy being Alliance to be much of anything else.
My thoughts exactly.

Void elves are nothing so far. Blizzard couldn't even afford them some alternative media lore. I was hoping at least for short stories or comics about them.

It's bizarre (to say the least) to have a playable race with less lore than things like saberon or pigmies.
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  #877  
Old 02-17-2018, 06:50 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Patrick_C View Post
Isn't that what (people suspect) the "fat Tirasians" are for?
Are they barbarians? If no, then no. Plus, their females don't have the same kind of look as Vrykuls either. I'm less concerned about size, and more about culture, attitude, and style. Fat Tirasians are just fat normal humans culturally. If they have any Vrykul heritage, it really doesn't show in their culture at all.

Even if they have Drust ancestry, current Drust lore is woefully underdeveloped as far as I can see, with them just being generic evil savages. Looking at the feedback that Drustvar is getting, I expect that whole zone is going to get an overhaul.

Last edited by Krakhed; 02-17-2018 at 06:52 AM..
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  #878  
Old 02-17-2018, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Based on what I've seen so far, it seems like Blizzard wants to supply each main race with at least one allied race that is in some way related to them, making the vulpera, if they are truly meant to be an allied race, the goblin's allied race.

I wonder (a) what Blizzard has in store for the other four races that are still missing an allied race of their own, (b) whether Pandaren would get one neutral allied race or two separate ones, and (c) whether the relationship between goblins and vulpera may be more than just skin deep. We still do not know which race Mimir blessed, after all.

(Yes, I know that (c) is unlikely, but asking doesn't hurt.)
How are the void elves related to the night elves at all?
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  #879  
Old 02-17-2018, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
How are the void elves related to the night elves at all?
They're purple elves.
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  #880  
Old 02-17-2018, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
How are the void elves related to the night elves at all?
They don't. The nightborne are the "night elf subrace". Blizzard just decided to cross-faction some of the subraces, that's all.
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  #881  
Old 02-17-2018, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
How are the void elves related to the night elves at all?
Blood elves.

Night elves get Nightborne.

A related race needs not be on the same faction. (And void elves are still related to night elves, if distantly.)
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  #882  
Old 02-17-2018, 09:04 AM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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You know, this got me thinking. Orcs will get Mag'har/Iron Horde, Forsaken will get Nathanos-style, Worgen may probably get "pure" Gilneans, or Night Elven Forsaken... But what the heck is going to be the Gnome related race? Both sand and leper gnomes seem too much of a joke. Mechagnomes doesn't feel right, they are too directly associated with the Titans for it to work...

That's all assuming, of course, that there is going to be a related race for everyone.
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  #883  
Old 02-17-2018, 10:44 AM
Insularius Insularius is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
Are they barbarians? If no, then no. Plus, their females don't have the same kind of look as Vrykuls either. I'm less concerned about size, and more about culture, attitude, and style. Fat Tirasians are just fat normal humans culturally. If they have any Vrykul heritage, it really doesn't show in their culture at all.

Even if they have Drust ancestry, current Drust lore is woefully underdeveloped as far as I can see, with them just being generic evil savages. Looking at the feedback that Drustvar is getting, I expect that whole zone is going to get an overhaul.
I have to agree with Krakhed on this one, the fat humans do not carry the main points of interest of the Vrykuls: the Norse/barbarian warrior culture/lore, armor aesthetics, beards, so far we have not seen tattoos and the females have nothing in common. The only common part is the head of the males. Furthermore most Kul Tirans use the standard human model, so a few fat individuals of a nation constituating an allied race seems to be wierd for me as they are the same race/culture as the already playable regular humans of Stormwind, Dalaran, Kul Tiras etc. If anything, I can see them as a barbershop option, mirroring straight back orcs.

On an other note, I ran a few tests using the Faintly Glowing Flagon toy to test the eternal "counterargument" of the Vrykul regarding their size. The transformation is circa 2 heads taller than a playable male tauren, easily dwarfs every Alliance race in comparison visually. I tested doors in SW and Ironforge and I did not ran into any problem with any of them, I fit through all of them, though there were underpasses under stairs in IF that were smaller than the model, but the model clipped through them easily without getting stuck. (I am open for suggestions, if there are other doors I should test.)

So all in all regarding the size, I believe that this or a tauren sized option still bring the giant feeling of the race, I prefer the shrinked, taurenish one because of the speed of the running animation + Blizzard does not seem to have a problem with changing sizes eg.: the playable Zandalari are a lot less shorter than expected.
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  #884  
Old 02-17-2018, 10:45 AM
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Gnomes can build warforged.

I **really** want playable robots ever since I got back into D&D.
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  #885  
Old 02-17-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Insularius View Post
the playable Zandalari are a lot less shorter than expected.
That could just be because the models aren't finished yet and they haven't applied proper scaling. The fat humans are taller than Tauren right now.
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  #886  
Old 02-18-2018, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Insularius View Post
I have to agree with Krakhed on this one, the fat humans do not carry the main points of interest of the Vrykuls: the Norse/barbarian warrior culture/lore, armor aesthetics, beards, so far we have not seen tattoos and the females have nothing in common. The only common part is the head of the males. Furthermore most Kul Tirans use the standard human model, so a few fat individuals of a nation constituating an allied race seems to be wierd for me as they are the same race/culture as the already playable regular humans of Stormwind, Dalaran, Kul Tiras etc. If anything, I can see them as a barbershop option, mirroring straight back orcs.
The thing those of you who do not want to see Kul Tirans as an allied race (and luckily for us who want them, are in minority it seems) do not get is that they are not just a visual option, they come with whole Kul Tiran culture tacked on. That's the major part of their appeal, not just their different physique. Kul Tiras is not the same culture as regular Stormwind, not only is Kul Tiras rather distinct from it, it is even rather distinct within the whole landscape of playable races.
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  #887  
Old 02-18-2018, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
The thing those of you who do not want to see Kul Tirans as an allied race (and luckily for us who want them, are in minority it seems) do not get is that they are not just a visual option, they come with whole Kul Tiran culture tacked on. That's the major part of their appeal, not just their different physique. Kul Tiras is not the same culture as regular Stormwind, not only is Kul Tiras rather distinct from it, it is even rather distinct within the whole landscape of playable races.
Not only that, instead of just being "generic kul tirans", the playable ones will be from that "monster hunter" background cited in interviews. So, more than just the culture, playable kul tirans, following the trend of new Alliance races, are most likely some kind of elite force specialized in fighting large sea threats.

I don't mind the male kul tirans, but the female ones need work. The males look like brawlers, strong and sturdy; the females just look fat and unused to action. I hope the playable ones get stronger bodies. It wouldn't be bad if they were somewhat more like female vrykuls.
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  #888  
Old 02-18-2018, 07:24 AM
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My greatest wish is that we have in the horde fores troll (revantusk).
the alliance may have wildhammer!
there is revantusk in zandalar, I hope they can be playable some day
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  #889  
Old 02-18-2018, 08:20 AM
Insularius Insularius is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
The thing those of you who do not want to see Kul Tirans as an allied race (and luckily for us who want them, are in minority it seems) do not get is that they are not just a visual option, they come with whole Kul Tiran culture tacked on. That's the major part of their appeal, not just their different physique. Kul Tiras is not the same culture as regular Stormwind, not only is Kul Tiras rather distinct from it, it is even rather distinct within the whole landscape of playable races.
Sincerelly I have to disagree with you Marthen, as you have said it, the biggest appeal of Kul Tirans is their culture/lore, which will come regardless if the fat ones will be an allied race or not. And as appearance wise there is nothing which separates the humans of the seven kingdoms besides armour, with BfA there will be nothing to stop Kul Tiras fans to play as their favourites as the armor, lore, zones and even a big city that dwarfs allied race home cities (seriously Blizz, purple rocks in the middle of nothing?).

As for the fat humans I am not against them as an option for humans, as I am always in favor of more and more customisation options which is one of WoW's greatest weakness, but I would despise them if they would come in the place of a race like Vrykul, similarly to the situation caused by Void Elves taking the place of High Elves, and LF Draenei of the Broken or even the Man'ari Eredar.

And regarding who is in the majority/minority, I would not be so bold, the last two polls, which had at least numbers to not call them entirely irrelevant, had Vrykuls taking 3rd place in both of them, massively outnumbering the fat Kul Tirans' numbers, with High Elves topping both, Orc clans and Ethereals claiming second place in one and the other respectively.
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  #890  
Old 02-18-2018, 08:57 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Ehm, except if there are no playable Kul Tirans, their culture will not be ever playable. That is the whole point.

Going by your logic, I could just say that Vrykul culture and lore is already there and you don't need them playable to have it. And without their culture and lore, Vrykul are basically giant barbarian humans, so they can be just an appearance option.

Or we stop being pretentious dismissive pricks and realize that perhaps different people enjoy different things and would thus like playing races. And that perhaps we are not the center of the universe and just because we do not see any appeal is not a good enough reason for something to not be playable.

Last edited by Marthen; 02-18-2018 at 09:09 AM..
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  #891  
Old 02-18-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Insularius View Post
And regarding who is in the majority/minority, I would not be so bold, the last two polls, which had at least numbers to not call them entirely irrelevant, had Vrykuls taking 3rd place in both of them, massively outnumbering the fat Kul Tirans' numbers, with High Elves topping both, Orc clans and Ethereals claiming second place in one and the other respectively.
What?

What poll? I most surely didn't vote in that one.
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  #892  
Old 02-18-2018, 10:51 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
What?

What poll? I most surely didn't vote in that one.
I assume that he means polls not on SoL, given the comment about numbers.
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  #893  
Old 02-18-2018, 11:04 AM
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I assume that he means polls not on SoL, given the comment about numbers.
Oh, lord. I wonder how much many more people also didn't take part in said poll.
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  #894  
Old 02-18-2018, 11:23 AM
Insularius Insularius is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
What?

What poll? I most surely didn't vote in that one.
http://www.strawpoll.me/14392171/r

https://www.poll-maker.com/results19...44C5E-51#tab-2

I was talking about these two, not because they mean anything, as 9k votes are still meaningless compared to the millions(?) of subs, but to jab a bit at Marthen's boast regarding "majority".
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  #895  
Old 02-18-2018, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Insularius View Post
http://www.strawpoll.me/14392171/r

https://www.poll-maker.com/results19...44C5E-51#tab-2

I was talking about these two, not because they mean anything, as 9k votes are still meaningless compared to the millions(?) of subs, but to jab a bit at Marthen's boast regarding "majority".
Jab what? How can I be sure that said poll wasn't advertised on a social media that isn't dominated by fans who actively request High Elves?

That's incredibly vague.
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  #896  
Old 02-18-2018, 12:09 PM
Insularius Insularius is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Ehm, except if there are no playable Kul Tirans, their culture will not be ever playable. That is the whole point.

Going by your logic, I could just say that Vrykul culture and lore is already there and you don't need them playable to have it. And without their culture and lore, Vrykul are basically giant barbarian humans, so they can be just an appearance option.

Or we stop being pretentious dismissive pricks and realize that perhaps different people enjoy different things and would thus like playing races. And that perhaps we are not the center of the universe and just because we do not see any appeal is not a good enough reason for something to not be playable.
Yes there are, they are called humans and their culture will be playable on an entire continent made up of 3 zones with the adequate transmog pieces, which is much more than what most other playable races/cultures got. I would agree with you if every Kul Tiran would be totally different from humans from the other kingdoms appearance/model wise, but alas, this is not the case, so there will be nothing to stop you or anyone else to play as a Kul Tiran human. If on Kul Tiras we would see precedent for new classes druids/shamans, I think it is better to unlock them for humans instead of creating a new race, like it was done in the case of nelf mages (Highborne). The main reason for playable races is always the model, human model is playable, vrykul is not, if they would use regular human model, I would slap on a Viking transmog and not ask for them, that is why your comparison is false.

If the appeal is not the culture, but the big, so called monster hunter model, I see no problem with them being playable, what is more, I support them as a customisation option for humans as fat humans are a core part of humanity and it would unlock several possibilities (lumberjacks, whalers, even authentic Garithos RP), the same way as straight backed orcs are not an allied race.

And for your last paragraph, there is no reason for these demagogic attacks, I never said anything like what you described, of course everyone has their own taste, but in this case I cannot see how the fat Kul Tiran allied race could measure compared to the fat human customisation option + Vrykul objectively, that is all.
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  #897  
Old 02-18-2018, 12:21 PM
Insularius Insularius is offline

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Jab what? How can I be sure that said poll wasn't advertised on a social media that isn't dominated by fans who actively request High Elves?

That's incredibly vague.
Via Google I could find that it was posted on the US forums, mmo champion, here (this topic, page 34) and some French forums. But my point was still not about High Elves, but about why it is a bad argument for anybody to say that he knows what the majority thinks. (most players I believe do not give a damn about allied races, besides 'cool I guess').
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  #898  
Old 02-18-2018, 12:28 PM
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Via Google I could find that it was posted on the US forums, mmo champion, here (this topic, page 34) and some French forums.
You completely missed the meaning of the conjecture.
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  #899  
Old 02-18-2018, 12:33 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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And for your last paragraph, there is no reason for these demagogic attacks, I never said anything like what you described, of course everyone has their own taste, but in this case I cannot see how the fat Kul Tiran allied race could measure compared to the fat human customisation option + Vrykul objectively, that is all.
Except you have. You are being dismissive of other people's wishes for a playable race, suggesting it should be an appearance option instead because "fat humans are not enough unique to warrant its own race". Even though going by the very logic you used in the other part of your post, their model is completely unique, so there is really nothing differing them from the Vrykul and therefore, they could be their own allied race. Objectively, if the Kul Tiran monster hunter model is just "fat human", then the Vrykul model is just a "barbarian human".

And for the last time, no, without playable Kul Tirans, the culture of Kul Tiras can't be playable. Playable humans are from Stormwind. You can imagine that your human is from Lordaeron or Stromgarde, for there was a massive influx of refugees and it seems these kingdoms (or parts of these kingdoms in the case of Lordaeron) have an accent similar to that of Stormwind, but you can't do that with Gilneas nor Kul Tiras.


Edit: And about the majority issue, I was specifically talking about this forum. It was an expression of graditute over the fact that while we still do have some geniuses who go "but my generic giant vikings (see, if you want to dismiss everything interesting about those monster hunters, then allow me to respond in kind) are better than fat humans!", it is not as bad as when you enter certain cesspools.

Last edited by Marthen; 02-18-2018 at 01:53 PM..
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  #900  
Old 02-18-2018, 12:36 PM
Insularius Insularius is offline

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You completely missed the meaning of the conjecture.
I have not, it was not my point to prove that these were not brigaded, simply just that anyone can come up with something to say they are the 'majority'.
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