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View Poll Results: Which of these allied race combos would you prefer?
Vrykul (A)/MU Clans (H) 11 28.21%
Kul Tirans (A)/MU Clans (H) 16 41.03%
Kul Tirans (A)/AU Clans (H) 9 23.08%
Vrykul (A)/AU Clans (H) 3 7.69%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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  #901  
Old 02-18-2018, 01:16 PM
Insularius Insularius is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Except you have. You are being dismissive of other people's wishes for a playable race, suggesting it should be an appearance option instead because "fat humans are not enough unique to warrant its own race". Even though going by the very logic you used in the other part of your post, their model is completely unique, so there is really nothing differing them from the Vrykul and therefore, they could be their own allied race. Objectively, if the Kul Tiran monster hunter model is just "fat human", then the Vrykul model is just a "barbarian human".

And for the last time, no, without playable Kul Tirans, the culture of Kul Tiras can't be playable. Playable humans are from Stormwind. You can imagine that your human is from Lordaeron or Stromgarde, for there was a massive influx of refugees and it seems these kingdoms (or parts of these kingdoms in the case of Lordaeron) have an accent similar to that of Stormwind, but you can't do that with Gilneas nor Kul Tiras.


Edit: And about the majority issue, I was specifically talking about this forum. It was an expression of graditute over the fact that while we still do have some geniuses who go "but my generic giang vikings (see, if you want to dismiss everything interesting about those monster hunters, then allow me to respond in kind) are better than fat humans!", it is not as bad as when you enter certain cesspools.
You stilled missed my point, which was that my problem with the unique model using denizens of Kul Tiras is that they do not represent most of the island nation, I would be OK with them technically, even if I would not roll one if everyone on Kul Tiras would look like that including the Proudmoors, because as of now they are just a unique appearance for a minority of humans. One way I thought of, which can make them 'worthy' of an allied race is if the lore makes them assimilated Drust, which would be a term that would encompass the group, similarly how cursed Gilneans are called Worgen, not Gilneans. The name 'Drust' is not necessary, anything would suffice that is not just simply Kul Tirans.

Regarding humans in general, they are my main/favourite race in Warcraft and I always wanted for them and orcs to have to have different start zones/scenarios based on kingdoms/clans, accents/hairstyles for humans and skin tones for orcs, but unfortunately knowing Blizzard it is as likely as playable green ooze allied race.

And yeah, as we are not married it is best not to insult each other and as you have said, do not turn this place into a cesspool.
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  #902  
Old 02-18-2018, 02:21 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Which is especially sad in the case of the void elves, because while the other Allied Races at least have a bunch of prior lore development to look back on fondly as they melt into the roster of multiracial grunts and footmen, there isn't all that much to void elves before they enlist in the Alliance, so we'll probably only see further development for them when the Void takes center stage as the primary threat and some of them take a mechanical break from being Alliance draenei-style to hand out quests to both factions. Until then they'll likely be too busy being Alliance to be much of anything else.
And even then, under that neutral narrative you tote as being superior to faction narrative, there would be a wide majority of playable races that would still get completely ignored and screwed over because they "just don't fit the narrative". (Sorry Gnomes, Dwarves, Worgen, there's no place for you in this story. Sorry Trolls, Tauren, Goblins, there's no place for you in this story. The Void storyline only has a special club of races that are allowed to engage in it.)

And honestly, the issue of races being turned into faceless grunts was a complaint even outside of the faction narrative, as it was a common complaint that the order halls turned playable races into faceless redshirts melted into an overarching class theme that only favored a specific race's thematic or none at all, leaving most playable races with class themes that they didn't relate to at all. (This was particularly egregious with the Paladin, Priest, Druid, Mage, and Hunter class halls.)

Until they can improve on including more playable races, I don't want to see another planet-eating world threat narrative for a while. I'll gladly take BfA and the fact it actually remembered a troll character beyond Vol'jin exists and is actually doing things.

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Considering that the modern Horde has an equal balance between closer to nature savage races, Trolls, Tauren, and Orcs, and more civilized races like Elves, Undead, and Goblins, I kind of think the Alliance needs a little diversity.
Eh, while I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of a more savage nature-themed Alliance race, I think of those Horde races you list I would only consider the Blood Elves to be truly civilized. Goblins are crude industrialists who are greedy and pollute the air they build land on and Forsaken are, to put it mildly, sewer-dwelling cannibals. I'm not trying to offend here, but Goblins and Forsaken are not races I'd classify as "high society" necessarily.

Just give us awesome looking Furbolg and be done with it.
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  #903  
Old 02-18-2018, 02:23 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
It continues to be laughable that people think joining a player faction is somehow good for a race's lore.
get over it
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  #904  
Old 02-18-2018, 02:57 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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You stilled missed my point, which was that my problem with the unique model using denizens of Kul Tiras is that they do not represent most of the island nation, I would be OK with them technically, even if I would not roll one if everyone on Kul Tiras would look like that including the Proudmoors, because as of now they are just a unique appearance for a minority of humans. One way I thought of, which can make them 'worthy' of an allied race is if the lore makes them assimilated Drust, which would be a term that would encompass the group, similarly how cursed Gilneans are called Worgen, not Gilneans. The name 'Drust' is not necessary, anything would suffice that is not just simply Kul Tirans.
No worries, I didn't, it's just that this particular argument does not work for me, as even though they are not the majority of the population, they do represent a specific group within in. The monster hunters, who are specifically tied to this physique and who, as I already explained before on the forum, represent a specific vision of fantasy Nordic whalers and brawly sailors. That is, combined with their unique model and Kul Tiran culture, why I want them an allied race.

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And yeah, as we are not married it is best not to insult each other and as you have said, do not turn this place into a cesspool.
Do you feel we have been insulting each other?
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  #905  
Old 02-18-2018, 04:50 PM
Insularius Insularius is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
No worries, I didn't, it's just that this particular argument does not work for me, as even though they are not the majority of the population, they do represent a specific group within in. The monster hunters, who are specifically tied to this physique and who, as I already explained before on the forum, represent a specific vision of fantasy Nordic whalers and brawly sailors. That is, combined with their unique model and Kul Tiran culture, why I want them an allied race.
Understandable, it all comes down to personal vision what a race/allied race should mean and these very specialised groups are really not my cup of tea, especially when they can be meant as a 'replacement', but of course to each their own, so lets hope both of us will get what we want. My appeal for Vrykuls comes from the idea of the reunion of the Ulduar Titanforged descendants in a faction, especially against the Void and of course the human-vrykul dynamic/interaction accompanied with the aesthetics.

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Do you feel we have been insulting each other?
Not particularly, but we started to go down that road, plus I really wanted to use that proverb in my previous post.

On an entirely different note, you seem to have a well established knowledge and dedication to the lore of the seven kingdoms, which is why I would like to ask you that how would you personally develop and differentiate their lore and culture as one of my greatest gripes with them is that Blizzard did not really develop them for a long time, which is a shame as they have great potential. (Sorry for the typos in advance, I wrote this on a phone.)
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  #906  
Old 02-18-2018, 04:53 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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And yeah, as we are not married it is best not to insult each other and as you have said, do not turn this place into a cesspool.
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  #907  
Old 02-18-2018, 06:12 PM
Melorandor Melorandor is offline

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PvP Symbol - Horde

My idea/wishlist for Draenor Orcs racial and classes.

Requirements? Having the achievement - Welcome to Draenor and a Level 120 Horde character.

Scenario: The last vestiges of the Iron Horde still threaten much of Draenor and Azeroth as well. The remaining holdouts have gathered upon the island of Farahlon, striking at the major centers of Orcs and Draenei alike. Eitrigg seeks to prevent another invasion from Draenor occurring while bringing in the shattered clans of Draenor into the Horde. It is up to the champion of the Horde to travel with Eitrigg back to Draenor to halt this disturbing build up and bring these clans in service to the Horde.

Racials -

Legacy of the Thunderlord: Damage increased against Giants by x amount %

Frostwolf Blood Runs Deep: Chance to call upon Frostwolves to aid you in battle for X amount of seconds.

Bones of Black Ore: Mining and Blacksmithing skill increased.

Blaze of Glory: Damage output and haste increased below 20% health.

Cry of the Warsong: Battle Cry like racial

Classes - Warrior, Hunter, Rogue, Shaman, Priest, Monk and Mage.

Heritage Armor: The leaked PH Armor.

Racial Mount: Mag'har Direwolf(PH)

Customization: Full body and facial tattoos that are unique to each clan present on Draenor. Skin colors ranging from "Mag'har" bronze to Dragonmaw and Blackrock grey. Draenor Orcs will have the option to be straight-backed as well.

Body modifications such as piercings and gauges from the Shattered Hand will be available as well.
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  #908  
Old 02-18-2018, 08:27 PM
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do not turn this place into a cesspool.
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  #909  
Old 02-18-2018, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Insularius View Post
And yeah, as we are not married it is best not to insult each other and as you have said, do not turn this place into a cesspool.
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  #910  
Old 02-19-2018, 12:54 AM
Insularius Insularius is offline

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Originally Posted by Melorandor View Post
My idea/wishlist for Draenor Orcs racial and classes.

Requirements? Having the achievement - Welcome to Draenor and a Level 120 Horde character.

Scenario: The last vestiges of the Iron Horde still threaten much of Draenor and Azeroth as well. The remaining holdouts have gathered upon the island of Farahlon, striking at the major centers of Orcs and Draenei alike. Eitrigg seeks to prevent another invasion from Draenor occurring while bringing in the shattered clans of Draenor into the Horde. It is up to the champion of the Horde to travel with Eitrigg back to Draenor to halt this disturbing build up and bring these clans in service to the Horde.

Racials -

Legacy of the Thunderlord: Damage increased against Giants by x amount %

Frostwolf Blood Runs Deep: Chance to call upon Frostwolves to aid you in battle for X amount of seconds.

Bones of Black Ore: Mining and Blacksmithing skill increased.

Blaze of Glory: Damage output and haste increased below 20% health.

Cry of the Warsong: Battle Cry like racial

Classes - Warrior, Hunter, Rogue, Shaman, Priest, Monk and Mage.

Heritage Armor: The leaked PH Armor.

Racial Mount: Mag'har Direwolf(PH)

Customization: Full body and facial tattoos that are unique to each clan present on Draenor. Skin colors ranging from "Mag'har" bronze to Dragonmaw and Blackrock grey. Draenor Orcs will have the option to be straight-backed as well.

Body modifications such as piercings and gauges from the Shattered Hand will be available as well.
I like the idea to have their racials be based on the thematics of different clans. I am also interested in that which patch will they be introduced: straight from the beginning in 8.0 or later in 8.1? And of course what would be their counterpart, because as of now the other BfA races seem to be developed as npcs and if one of them would become playable it would be in a later patch a la Nightborne. Although there are the vulperas with the assigned 'Horde value' in that database file, but of course that is not neccessarily enough proof for them and I really hope that Draenor Orcs will be Horde.
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  #911  
Old 02-19-2018, 02:47 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Insularius View Post
Understandable, it all comes down to personal vision what a race/allied race should mean and these very specialised groups are really not my cup of tea, especially when they can be meant as a 'replacement', but of course to each their own, so lets hope both of us will get what we want.
Oh, agreed absolutely.

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Originally Posted by Insularius View Post
On an entirely different note, you seem to have a well established knowledge and dedication to the lore of the seven kingdoms, which is why I would like to ask you that how would you personally develop and differentiate their lore and culture as one of my greatest gripes with them is that Blizzard did not really develop them for a long time, which is a shame as they have great potential. (Sorry for the typos in advance, I wrote this on a phone.)
You might want to check my fanwork's thread (in the signature), I detailed some of that there.
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  #912  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:34 AM
Rexxar Rexxar is offline

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Allied races are being released in pairs, so unless the Vulpera are neutral, which I doubt, and it is most likely Horde will get them, what do you think their Alliance counterpart will be? I'm not holding out for Sethrak, they have too many armor incompatible bodyparts. I would really really love broken draenei. Can't wait to play a broken monk.
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  #913  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:52 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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The way I see it, Blizzard has to add a neutral allied race for Pandaren, if they don't want to add two allied races for them or none at all.

So... either gnolls (though this is more wishful thinking than an expectation) or vulpera are neutral.
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  #914  
Old 03-17-2018, 05:31 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
The way I see it, Blizzard has to add a neutral allied race for Pandaren, if they don't want to add two allied races for them or none at all.

So... either gnolls (though this is more wishful thinking than an expectation) or vulpera are neutral.
tortollan neutral race
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  #915  
Old 03-17-2018, 05:50 AM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Originally Posted by Rexxar View Post
Allied races are being released in pairs, so unless the Vulpera are neutral, which I doubt, and it is most likely Horde will get them, what do you think their Alliance counterpart will be? I'm not holding out for Sethrak, they have too many armor incompatible bodyparts. I would really really love broken draenei. Can't wait to play a broken monk.
We already have a Draenei Allied Race, though. I realize most people wanted Broken, not Lightforged, but if Lightforged is what we got, I really don't want to see an allied race "spot" being taken by another variation of the same theme. Vulpera are original, not related to any other race (that we know of), so I expect their Alliance counterpart to be the same. Maybe Tortollan, or Furbolgs, or something similar.
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  #916  
Old 03-17-2018, 09:05 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Rexxar View Post
Allied races are being released in pairs, so unless the Vulpera are neutral, which I doubt, and it is most likely Horde will get them, what do you think their Alliance counterpart will be? I'm not holding out for Sethrak, they have too many armor incompatible bodyparts. I would really really love broken draenei. Can't wait to play a broken monk.
I said it in the other thread, but I'll say it here too. I think it should be Furbolg with Worgen animations, would make them a great counterpart to the Vulpera and their Goblin animations. Furbolg have been around since WC3 and have almost as long of a history of being Alliance allies, plus it's extremely easy to pull some background lore to flesh them out.

Their quest-line could have Tyrande bring them in, maybe either the Timbermaw finally decide to choose a faction loyalty or you could have all the Furbolg tribes unite and rally under Tyrande. Boom, done. No asspulls or retcons needed, just an NPC ally finally being pulled into the limelight and made into a playable race.
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  #917  
Old 03-18-2018, 01:47 PM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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I expect the pandaren to bring in jinyu and hozen. I mean, those two are one of the first things that come to everyone's minds when they think about allied races. But then again, so are broken and we got the stupid lightforged for draenei instead.
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  #918  
Old 03-20-2018, 04:30 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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I expect the pandaren to bring in jinyu and hozen. I mean, those two are one of the first things that come to everyone's minds when they think about allied races. But then again, so are broken and we got the stupid lightforged for draenei instead.
I really, really, REALLY doubt the PANDAREN will pull anyone in this nonsense. If anything i'd expect them to silently be pushed even more to the sidelines and maybe even officially screw faction crap as a race, leaving only their adventurers to pointlessly kill each other. I hope we don't see too many Pandaren NPCs in BFA, it just doesn't fit them.

If anything i'd see SI:7 and whatever replaces the Kor'Kron to get the Pandaland allies.

As an aside i find it a bit dumb to replace the Kor'Kron. They've been good guys before; reclaim the name. Just make them predominantly non-Orcs. We could do without Orcs and with less Humans anyway.
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  #919  
Old 03-20-2018, 07:41 PM
Temo Temo is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
The way I see it, Blizzard has to add a neutral allied race for Pandaren, if they don't want to add two allied races for them or none at all.

So... either gnolls (though this is more wishful thinking than an expectation) or vulpera are neutral.

Am I the only one who remembers the Mogu ever existed? if a race is in urgent need of allies is them. If there is one race the Zandalari could pull into the Horde with them, would be the Mogu. If there is one race with enough lore to make the Allianceboys cry literal tears of rage because MUH HORDE BIAS is them. Mogu are simply a perfect addition, and they use a modified draenei skull, so its not much work left to do, and the horde doesnt have that skeleton variation yet.
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  #920  
Old 03-20-2018, 09:25 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I really, really, REALLY doubt the PANDAREN will pull anyone in this nonsense. If anything i'd expect them to silently be pushed even more to the sidelines and maybe even officially screw faction crap as a race, leaving only their adventurers to pointlessly kill each other. I hope we don't see too many Pandaren NPCs in BFA, it just doesn't fit them.
Yep, the Pandaren should reunite themselves and leave only the crazy mercenary murderhobos for the Alliance and Horde.
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  #921  
Old 03-20-2018, 10:00 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I had a neat idea earlier today.

Alliance:

So imagine that after burning Teldrassil, the kaldorei retreat to their sacred grounds, Moonglade and Hyjal. The Horde is starting to encircle them all around, from Darkshore across Ashenvale, Azshara and Winterspring. By now, the night elves are furious at the Horde, and they barely have tolerate a fee tauren druids as ambassadors. So, what do they do? They call upon their ancient allies, the furbolg.

They come to Timbermaw Hold and propose a new alliance with them, that they might join the Alliance officially, and be counted amongst its people, with mutualismo protection. The Timbermaw agree, and aid the elves in recruiting some other furbolg tribes. Thus, the status quo remains as the kaldorei and furbolg defending Hyjal and Moonglade, making use of the furbolg tunnels beneath the earth to quickly send troops to battle lines.

Allied race: furbolg.

Horde:

Meanwhile, in the Eastern Kingdoms, the Alliance is pushing up towards Quel'Thalas, with only the battle lines of Stromgarde holding the lines, the Horde supplying it via sea from Quel'Thalas to Revantusk.

As ships from Kul Tiras arrive to intercept this supply lines, the sin'dorei realize they will need extra ships, since the Zandalari are much too far away. So, a coalition of sin'dorei, Zandalari and Darkspear go into Zul'Aman and make a pact with the Amani, that they will protect each other from the Alliance who would destroy them all.

With the inclusion of the Amani destroyers, the Tirassian fleet in this region can no longer hold the line, so the warfront continues to be supplied. Furthermore, the Horde can now make use of secret Amani passageways through the Hinterlands and Amani Mountains, as well as staging armies from Jintha and Shadra'alor.

Allied race: forest troll.
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  #922  
Old 03-21-2018, 02:46 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
I had a neat idea earlier today.

Alliance:

So imagine that after burning Teldrassil, the kaldorei retreat to their sacred grounds, Moonglade and Hyjal. The Horde is starting to encircle them all around, from Darkshore across Ashenvale, Azshara and Winterspring. By now, the night elves are furious at the Horde, and they barely have tolerate a fee tauren druids as ambassadors. So, what do they do? They call upon their ancient allies, the furbolg.

They come to Timbermaw Hold and propose a new alliance with them, that they might join the Alliance officially, and be counted amongst its people, with mutualismo protection. The Timbermaw agree, and aid the elves in recruiting some other furbolg tribes. Thus, the status quo remains as the kaldorei and furbolg defending Hyjal and Moonglade, making use of the furbolg tunnels beneath the earth to quickly send troops to battle lines.

Allied race: furbolg.

Horde:

Meanwhile, in the Eastern Kingdoms, the Alliance is pushing up towards Quel'Thalas, with only the battle lines of Stromgarde holding the lines, the Horde supplying it via sea from Quel'Thalas to Revantusk.

As ships from Kul Tiras arrive to intercept this supply lines, the sin'dorei realize they will need extra ships, since the Zandalari are much too far away. So, a coalition of sin'dorei, Zandalari and Darkspear go into Zul'Aman and make a pact with the Amani, that they will protect each other from the Alliance who would destroy them all.

With the inclusion of the Amani destroyers, the Tirassian fleet in this region can no longer hold the line, so the warfront continues to be supplied. Furthermore, the Horde can now make use of secret Amani passageways through the Hinterlands and Amani Mountains, as well as staging armies from Jintha and Shadra'alor.

Allied race: forest troll.
Makes sense; I like it. Ideally I'd want all of the troll subspecies to become allied races eventually.
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  #923  
Old 03-21-2018, 12:51 PM
Al'Akir Al'Akir is offline

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There have been a lot of great and exciting ideas for Allied Races, but we have also seen some mediocre ideas come to fruition pretty early (highmountain and lightforged). I decided to try to think up the least exciting AR's that could realistically be added:

Alliance race: Primal Worgen... Worgen from the old Kaldorei stock. They're just like the Gilnean Worgen, but they can morph into night elves instead of humans when out of combat.

Horde race: Gilgoblins. They're goblins, but blue and with fish-fin ears

When I noticed those were both Cata races, That got me thinking, just how low can we go for each expansion cycle?
...treant and wastewander scavenger?
Fel elf and necromantic auchindoun draenei?
Polar furbolg and frost gnoll?
Gronnling and infested orc?

I actually couldn't think of any bad ARs for MoP...everything that xpack added was at least ok.
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  #924  
Old 03-23-2018, 09:04 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Personally, I would like an Alliance allied race that's big and has a strength level similar to Orcs or Tauren, but without any caveats or trade-offs.

Draenei and Worgen come close, both being taller than Orcs. Draenei have awesome muscle mass but have extremely skinny legs that make them look way too top heavy and the only way to offset this is to find transmogs that bulk up the legs and hooves a bit more. Worgen in-game have nice broad shoulders but noodle arms that don't convey any sort of level of bestial strength, whereas in artwork they're built like they could rip an Orc apart and at least stand more than a passing chance against a Tauren.

Kul Tirans almost satisfy me. They're taller than Draenei, they're brutish, they have a lot of muscle to them and don't seem as lop-sided. My biggest issue with them is that they are WAY too round in the middle region and seem more 'fat' than 'stout' to me. I don't mind them being fat as an option, but it causes all kinds of transmogs I try to find for them to just look far too stretched out and their shoulders are too small. I don't want them to be Herculean heroic looking, but I would certainly like if Blizzard took a look at Dwarves and modeled Kul Tiran body shape to be a bit more like Dwarves where the stomach isn't the most prominent feature of them and really sell them as powerfully built 'stout' people like I would want to play in an allied race.
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Old 03-23-2018, 01:52 PM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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My only "problem" (if it can even be called that) with Kul Tirans is that they are "Vrykuls, but not really". The same way that Void Elves are "High Elves, but not really", and Lightforged are Blizzard's answer for the community call for playable Broken.

Dark Iron are the only Alliance Allied Race that people actually wanted, as far as I can see (And I bet a bunch of Wildhammer fans could argue me on that point). That's the problem. They see the Alliance fanbase asking for something, think for a bit, and then give us something else.
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