Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > World of WarCraft Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #7676  
Old 02-02-2019, 03:18 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness - Moderator
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: All the lands of Wonder.
Posts: 40,931

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Seems like you still are making light of it. /shrug
Yes, because SoL is no place for facts, only sentimentalism and sensationalism.

I'd rather discuss the actual canon lore and possible interpretations of events rather than headcanons treated as is they were actually canon lore themselves.

Edit:
You know, having wasted even a second on this topic was dumb of me. If people wish to hate Baine due to some perceived affront, that's their business and no skin off my nose. If it leads them to perceive all future actions of Baine in a negative light? So be it.

Last edited by Nazja; 02-03-2019 at 04:43 AM.. Reason: My comments concerning another SoL member were out of line and I regret them.
Reply With Quote
  #7677  
Old 02-02-2019, 04:14 AM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

Sentinel Queen
JorgeAxe's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 945

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
This was basically its purpose. Provide an already established, well fortified garrison from which to launch attacks on the Horde if the relationship between the Alliance and Horde ever worsened. Which, again, is not harassment.
It is harassment because the barrens is canonly Horde territory and the Dwarves built a death fortress on land they stole from the natives, all while disrespecting the Horde’s shamanistic beliefs as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Not quite. They were able to drive them off initially but thought it prudent to request military aid.

The fact that we are dealing with various rogue elements out here leads me to believe we will need support from the King's Army.

Rogue elements referring to the tauren, among others.
The work will be noisy and disruptive but our search is of far greater importance than the comfort of the local inhabitants. In fact, we've already had to drive a band of bull-men out of the area who were proving to be a nuisance



The dwarves describe the tauren as a simple nuisance and make it clear they know they are causing pain to the natives. They were not threatened at all, you are literally defending manifest destiny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
The world isn't black and white. Me stating that we are not aware of all of the events that led to the Stonespire being forced to evacuate their village or die defending it does not mean that I am defending the actions of the dwarves. It simply means that we are missing context which may or may not reveal them to be the irredeemable villains you believe them to be.
You never defend the Horde's actions like burning Teladrassil or claim the Hillsbrad farmer provoked the forsaken.

Yet when the Alliance does something bad, you claim things aren’t black and white, and overall try to make excuses for the clearly malicious perpetrators.

Effectively for you its only "Morally grey" when the Alliance is the aggressor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
The point being that your overly aggressive stance towards quillboar and disdain for their culture could be likened to Khazgorm's opinion of the tauren. and that maybe you ought to respect Baine for being a greater man than Khazgorm and Twinbraid instead of simply considering each and every of his actions an affront to the Horde and show of Alliance favouritism.
What disdain for the quilboar, you have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

The thing is Baine isn’t trying to reason with the Alliance, he was saying they were in the right and that anyone who defended themself deserved exile.

If Baine had fortified the barrens and sent soldiers to reinforce it’s defenders, while also maintaning his army would be used only for defense so as not to continue the cycle of hatred, that would be trying to reason with the Alliance. What Baine did was treachery to the tauren tribes.

And people like Jorn Skyseer only targeted scum like Twinbraid and the soldiers assaulting Mulgore's gate.

Get that through your thick head, its been explained to you over and over again, yet you keep trying to vilify the tauren for self defense against an actively invading army.

And looking at the rest of your dumb claims, yes the dwarves actions are still genocide and there is no proof that the Stonespire weren't wiped out.

A few survivors out of a large group of people that was intentionally wiped out doesn't mean it wasn't a genocide.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis
It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
Reply With Quote
  #7678  
Old 02-02-2019, 04:41 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness - Moderator
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: All the lands of Wonder.
Posts: 40,931

Default

This will be my last comment on this topic. I am merely replying because this is a point I forgot to address in my earlier message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JorgeAxe View Post
You never defend the Horde's actions like burning Teladrassil or claim the Hillsbrad farmer provoked the forsaken.

Yet when the Alliance does something bad, you claim things aren’t black and white, and overall try to make excuses for the clearly malicious perpetrators.

Effectively for you its only "Morally grey" when the Alliance is the aggressor.
We are not talking about Hillsbrad or Teldrassil right now. I have not made a post on either of those topics for months if not years. I have little reason to bring either of those incidents up out of context.

It is true that you have not seen me defend the actions of the Horde during these events. But how could you have, given that I haven't talked about either event?

But since you seem to be so interested in knowing my opinion...

The Alliance had provided Sylvanas with a valid casus belli, although it was mostly the consequence of a misunderstanding. Burning down Teldrassil after the Horde had already won was not justified.

Both the Forsaken and the humans had a valid claim to Hillsbrad. The Forsaken killing Hillsbrad's farmers in retaliation could be considered justified. Their actions in Cataclysm and inhumane experiments on the farmers, however, could not be justified.

I have repeatedly stated that the dwarves' actions towards the tauren natives were unjustified. Stating that you are ignoring facts and context in order to show the dwarves in the worst possible light is not the same as defending their actions, in the same vein that stating that Sylvanas has some positive traits, like caring for her sisters, is not the same as stating that she is a good person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JorgeAxe View Post
And looking at the rest of your dumb claims, yes the dwarves actions are still genocide and there is no proof that the Stonespire weren't wiped out.
Quote:
Many innocent tauren lost their lives or were forced off their ancestral birthplace.
Many referring to the total number of tauren, not solely to those killed. It is possible that the majority of these many were killed. It could be that the numbers of those killed were about equal to those who were forced to leave their ancestral birthplace. It could mean that those who were killed were far lesser in number than those forced to leaver their ancestral birthplace.

Regardless of whichever case it may have been, just like there is no proof that the Stonespire weren't wiped out, there is also no proof that they were wiped out. And regardless which of these two is correct, Twinbraid's actions towards the Stonespire were wrong. Something I have never disputed.

Last edited by Nazja; 02-02-2019 at 04:52 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #7679  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:42 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

Arch-Druid
Jon Targaryen's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,424
BattleTag: JulianPatel#1800

Default

Can we talk about BfA here are move the Baine conversation to the Halls of Lordaeron or whatever? Asking for a friend.
Reply With Quote
  #7680  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:25 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

Hippogryph
Mungo's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 185

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
Can we talk about BfA here are move the Baine conversation to the Halls of Lordaeron or whatever? Asking for a friend.
Yes, I might have fanned the flames a bit, I apologize. But there really doesn't seem to be much to talk about that we haven't already gone over. Blizzard's twisting of the lore to such a degree has made me not care.
Reply With Quote
  #7681  
Old 02-02-2019, 09:44 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

Elune
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Trickster's Mighty Keep
Posts: 7,368

Shadow Orb

So I really think the best place to end this Alliance-Horde war is a final warfront is Gilneas. Since that place has kinda been the symbolic zone for faction war since Cataclysm. Would coul even have a cool cinematic of Genn standing in front of Liam's grave or something. Any thoughts?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brojar View Post
i literally just shit my pants with rage
Reply With Quote
  #7682  
Old 02-02-2019, 09:55 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

Arch-Druid
Jon Targaryen's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,424
BattleTag: JulianPatel#1800

Default

I like the idea of ending at Gilneas, but why would a warfront serve as the end of a conflict?
Reply With Quote
  #7683  
Old 02-02-2019, 11:52 AM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

Sentinel Queen
JorgeAxe's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 945

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
T
I have repeatedly stated that the dwarves' actions towards the tauren natives were unjustified. Stating that you are ignoring facts and context in order to show the dwarves in the worst possible light is not the same as defending their actions, in the same vein that stating that Sylvanas has some positive traits, like caring for her sisters, is not the same as stating that she is a good person.
I showed their journal itself paints the dwarves as in the wrong as they knew the tauren were no threat and that they were causing them discomfort, but did so anyway because they thought their race and their motives were more important then the local inhabitants.

Note in real life archaeology, their actions would be a serious crime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
T
Many referring to the total number of tauren, not solely to those killed. It is possible that the majority of these many were killed. It could be that the numbers of those killed were about equal to those who were forced to leave their ancestral birthplace. It could mean that those who were killed were far lesser in number than those forced to leaver their ancestral birthplace.
Incorrect again.

You have done well, <name>! May you be revered in Thunder Bluff as a defender of sacred tauren lands and a champion of the lost tribe.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis
It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
Reply With Quote
  #7684  
Old 02-02-2019, 04:56 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

Elune
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Trickster's Mighty Keep
Posts: 7,368

Shadow Orb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
I like the idea of ending at Gilneas, but why would a warfront serve as the end of a conflict?
Aren't the warfronts the patch zones or something? So you know, having dailies and storylines and stuff.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brojar View Post
i literally just shit my pants with rage
Reply With Quote
  #7685  
Old 02-03-2019, 05:36 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

Elune
Lord Grimtale's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Slaughtered Lamb
Posts: 22,046
BattleTag: Grimtale67#1407

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
I like the idea of ending at Gilneas, but why would a warfront serve as the end of a conflict?
Just make it a big part of the heritage armor quest for them and be done with it.
Reply With Quote
  #7686  
Old 02-03-2019, 06:23 AM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

Arch-Druid
Sa'danak's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,997
BattleTag: Lyvef1re#1109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickster View Post
So I really think the best place to end this Alliance-Horde war is a final warfront is Gilneas. Since that place has kinda been the symbolic zone for faction war since Cataclysm. Would coul even have a cool cinematic of Genn standing in front of Liam's grave or something. Any thoughts?
I'd rather it just be patch content just after Nazjatar. A small, elite surgical op that Genn executes behind Anduins back when he catches Sylvanas's control of the Horde powerbase is spread too thin ("I had to act now, i had no idea how long the opportunity would be open" wink wink). Don't give the whole thing to the Alliance (we still need a warfront) but frame it with Genn taking an Alliance force on the brink of annihilation to sweeping the capital and flipping the conflict completely over through sylvanas's negligence. That way you can show Gilneas's sudden reversal as a sign for the horde mases to start to mull whether Sylvanas's battle prowess is really worth more than her many downsides after all . Throw Calia into the mix with some strategic plays at disrupting the Forsaken there and you could probably spin some of the Forsaken survivors starting to doubt Sylv too.

Two birds, one stone. Further the interfaction conflict for Horde by brining the Forsaken into play and actually does something interesting with the Alliance for once. Anduin being able to lead the Alliance so flawlessly out the gate isn't logical, so him losing control of the wilder elements like the Worgen and Nelves would not only be (imo) interesting but also make him less Mary Sueish. He shouldn't of had the High King position by default after Varians demise but since that is what it is i'd rather see it spun as a "no-one else wanted the bureaucratic hassle before the flames actually started singing their own nations ass".

For execution do a general questline but, as Grim said, heritage armour questlines probably work best here too. Do the main line as the Worgen assault taking the city (Use Crowley and Ivar) whilst the Horde is initally reeling but recovers by withdrawing and fortifying the gate north. As for Heritage armour do the Forsaken one questline theme it around Calia and her interplay with the Forsaken and their shared lordaeron roots (rotting Lordaeron themed gear?) and another for the Worgen and Genn reuniting with Crowley, fortifying the capital city and an emotional scene by Liams grave ending with him steeling himself for the "real battle" ( rewarding Gilnean soldier regalia). Then just slap a warfront in set after both questlines and you're done. Throw in the inevitable short Allied race unlock line for Vulpera/Mechagnomes and that's 8.2.5 wrapped up. We're supposedly getting the Worgen model update then too so that's a bonus as well.
Reply With Quote
  #7687  
Old 02-03-2019, 10:07 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

Arch-Druid
Jon Targaryen's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,424
BattleTag: JulianPatel#1800

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Just make it a big part of the heritage armor quest for them and be done with it.
I like that. What do you think Gilnean heritage armor would look like?
Reply With Quote
  #7688  
Old 02-03-2019, 10:16 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness - Moderator
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: All the lands of Wonder.
Posts: 40,931

Default

In my opinion...
Reply With Quote
  #7689  
Old 02-03-2019, 12:05 PM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

Arch-Druid
Jon Targaryen's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,424
BattleTag: JulianPatel#1800

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
In my opinion...
Almost perfect. Just needs a monocle.
Reply With Quote
  #7690  
Old 02-03-2019, 12:59 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,212

Default

I wouldn't be surprised if worgen heritage armor questline is used to reclaim Gilneas. I just hope Gilneas is phased as a habitable place for all characters, not only worgen that did the questline, so it can be visited and enjoyed by everyone.

And the heritage armor I imagine is pretty much the one Nazja posted. Bonus points if has different looks for worgen/human form (maybe it's all ragged up in worgen form?)
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).
Reply With Quote
  #7691  
Old 02-03-2019, 03:17 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

Banished
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,056
BattleTag: Hulk#2393

Default

Heritage quests are basically exploring their past not about the future.

Also Talanji Should definetly been fridged
Reply With Quote
  #7692  
Old 02-03-2019, 03:26 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,474

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurzog View Post
Heritage quests are basically exploring their past not about the future.

Also Talanji Should definetly been fridged
No she should not, Fridging is bad.

I'd argue they shouldn't have killed Rasta rather than suggesting they fridge Talanji.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #7693  
Old 02-03-2019, 07:22 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

Banished
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,056
BattleTag: Hulk#2393

Default

troll yrel was a mistake of a character that was only added coz muh wahmen.

all this does is make zandalari from actually having potential to be interesting and unique, instead making them be black panther wow edition.
Jaina being forgiven and even LOVED by all of kul tiras is also pants on fire retarded.
Reply With Quote
  #7694  
Old 02-03-2019, 10:34 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

Time-Lost Proto Nerd
Insane Guy of Doom's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,995

Default

I think many of the decisions that have caused complaint the Zandalari's story stems from MoP. Its clear Blizzard had big plans for them, but all of those plans were for them to future villains. When they decided to make them allies in BfA it meant lots of walking back certain things (like how involved the Zandalari in general were with Zul, or the amount of damage from the Cataclysm) while also being stuck with ideas that don't quite gel with them being the kind of powerful group the Horde should want to befriend.

All the stuff about the Zandalari being a dying empire that doesn't realize they've already lost all their power and influence, about Rastakhan being an ineffectual king who has lost all his will and control over the Zandalari people? That was all from MoP and Shadows of the Horde. In other words, Rastakhan dying and the Zandalari having to re-invent themselves under a new leader was probably set in stone long before they came up with Talanji specifically.
Reply With Quote
  #7695  
Old 02-04-2019, 03:12 AM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

Arch-Druid
Sa'danak's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,997
BattleTag: Lyvef1re#1109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
No she should not, Fridging is bad.

I'd argue they shouldn't have killed Rasta rather than suggesting they fridge Talanji.
The "too many wuhmen in mah Warcraft" BS is really grating but Talanji is just really, really boring though. :/

Like shes just as flat as can be and it shows out far worse when shes put next to Rastakhan. Don't get me wrong, Rastakhan was never perfect but he was pushed even further into the ditch in BFA simply by the way they "reframed" his allies into obvious, irredeemable villainy so that he appeared completely incompetent instead of just stretched thin.

To expand on this for a bit, lets take Zul as the obvious example.
Here we had a prophet with incredible foresight who favoured a militant, expansionist, world-spanning plan for the Zandalari empire and thus often butted heads with the more reserved Rastakhan. He was sneaky, underhanded and was almost always subtlely trying to twist the empire in ways said king often disliked but ultimately genuinely believed his actions were actions that Zandalar needed to survive its supposedly back-breaking Cataclysm collapse into the sea.
Then BFA happens and suddenly Zandalar was actually pretty damn fine, the empire never actually committed to the Thunder King, just a rogue element sought the Thunder Kings help, reuniting the troll clans against the world to create another troll superpower is quietly swept under the rug and Zul actually never cared about his people at all, only about freeing a not even true old god because.....corruption.

Its just one of the same few minor variations on the bog-standard Blizzard formula they always use time and again for writing out imperfect factional characters like Fandral, Kael'thas, Garrosh, until recently Illidan, Wod Grom etc etc. End result, railroad said individual into chaotic evil with no redeeming qualities for an unceremonius execution.
As far as i can tell they have done this to every single figure of reasonable lore footnote with one exception in Sylvanas. I cannot figure out how Sylvanas has escaped this fate so far but id guess that based on her sudden shift towards jet black morality that she is just overdue and getting her turn soon so i wouldnt call her an outlier just yet.

So how does this all relate to Rastakhan? Well, I believe the truth is that Rastakhan just got lucky in that his circumstances were the only one** that lined up perfectly to set him in a position where they couldnt afford to just throw him in the garbage for a standard typical patented focus tested ultra-likable npc with the complexity of an ikea manual and no prior baggage namely because one didnt even exist of any note.
So we're left with only two really notable Zandalari characters at the time, that hadnt been killed off on the Isle of Thunder, or decanonised by the rpg. That's him and Zul. Blizzard has been on record many times about "seeding" races/classes in the game before they take the leap to playable to avoid the Draenei backlash and thus they likely determined they had to keep at least one of those two around long enough to build up a replacement (enter Talanji).
It doesnt take a genius to recognise which of those two would be easier to smash with the villain bat so sayonara Zul but Rastakhan had to remain for now. So they have to spend a great deal of effort to write him into the dumps the best they can without directly hurling him into straight villainy so set him up for his removal in favour of the safe replacement in Talanji. But ironically this unique scenario actually led to Blizzard creating a complex, compelling character. Furthermore, in having to wind down Rastakhans story, they didnt actually find any time into giving Talanji much character worsening the scenario.

So what would i do to fix this? Simple. Let Talanji start to drift away from Sylvanas over a patch or two and eventually have her mull breaking from the Horde. Sylvanas needs the Zandalari and thus takes drastic action. She breaks into the kings burial site and has the Valkyrs raise Rastakhan, with her new Derek mindcontrol style and contest the Zandalari leadership. The Zandalari are torn on whether Talanji still has rights to the throne with Rastakhans sudden return and thus we get a situation where she cant leave the Horde as a chunk of her people want Rastakhan leading again, who suddenly really likes the Horde. Furthermore Bwomsamdi has a crisis where he faces losing his loa position to a king, who is no longer under his thumb, has pointedly got a bone or two to pick with im and worse-still will potentially never die. Later you could have Rastakhan convince Sylvanas to let him try to get Rezan back and into the head Loa job so he can both cement his leadership position amongst the populace again and thus the Horde. Then after hes pacted with Rezan have the Loa help him slowly shake Sylvanas's influence and return mostly to his past self. He and Talanji then compromise on a joint rulership. End result Talanji, gets actual character growth and Rastakhan aint wasted!

[I put far too much thought into this...]

** - Yes, they did create Geyah for the Maghar from scratch but thats another unique circumstance where they needed another allied race asap so that Kul'tirans could get their unique rig development time and pair with Zandalari thus they needed another 2 popular races with practically no development time so, lacking perfect options, they determined to give us the Mag'har race without any of the baggage of the expansion they came from.)
Reply With Quote
  #7696  
Old 02-04-2019, 01:46 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

Elune
C9H20's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,209

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
The "too many wuhmen in mah Warcraft" BS is really grating but Talanji is just really, really boring though. :/

Like shes just as flat as can be and it shows out far worse when shes put next to Rastakhan. Don't get me wrong, Rastakhan was never perfect but he was pushed even further into the ditch in BFA simply by the way they "reframed" his allies into obvious, irredeemable villainy so that he appeared completely incompetent instead of just stretched thin.

To expand on this for a bit, lets take Zul as the obvious example.
Here we had a prophet with incredible foresight who favoured a militant, expansionist, world-spanning plan for the Zandalari empire and thus often butted heads with the more reserved Rastakhan. He was sneaky, underhanded and was almost always subtlely trying to twist the empire in ways said king often disliked but ultimately genuinely believed his actions were actions that Zandalar needed to survive its supposedly back-breaking Cataclysm collapse into the sea.
Then BFA happens and suddenly Zandalar was actually pretty damn fine, the empire never actually committed to the Thunder King, just a rogue element sought the Thunder Kings help, reuniting the troll clans against the world to create another troll superpower is quietly swept under the rug and Zul actually never cared about his people at all, only about freeing a not even true old god because.....corruption.

Its just one of the same few minor variations on the bog-standard Blizzard formula they always use time and again for writing out imperfect factional characters like Fandral, Kael'thas, Garrosh, until recently Illidan, Wod Grom etc etc. End result, railroad said individual into chaotic evil with no redeeming qualities for an unceremonius execution.
As far as i can tell they have done this to every single figure of reasonable lore footnote with one exception in Sylvanas. I cannot figure out how Sylvanas has escaped this fate so far but id guess that based on her sudden shift towards jet black morality that she is just overdue and getting her turn soon so i wouldnt call her an outlier just yet.

So how does this all relate to Rastakhan? Well, I believe the truth is that Rastakhan just got lucky in that his circumstances were the only one** that lined up perfectly to set him in a position where they couldnt afford to just throw him in the garbage for a standard typical patented focus tested ultra-likable npc with the complexity of an ikea manual and no prior baggage namely because one didnt even exist of any note.
So we're left with only two really notable Zandalari characters at the time, that hadnt been killed off on the Isle of Thunder, or decanonised by the rpg. That's him and Zul. Blizzard has been on record many times about "seeding" races/classes in the game before they take the leap to playable to avoid the Draenei backlash and thus they likely determined they had to keep at least one of those two around long enough to build up a replacement (enter Talanji).
It doesnt take a genius to recognise which of those two would be easier to smash with the villain bat so sayonara Zul but Rastakhan had to remain for now. So they have to spend a great deal of effort to write him into the dumps the best they can without directly hurling him into straight villainy so set him up for his removal in favour of the safe replacement in Talanji. But ironically this unique scenario actually led to Blizzard creating a complex, compelling character. Furthermore, in having to wind down Rastakhans story, they didnt actually find any time into giving Talanji much character worsening the scenario.

So what would i do to fix this? Simple. Let Talanji start to drift away from Sylvanas over a patch or two and eventually have her mull breaking from the Horde. Sylvanas needs the Zandalari and thus takes drastic action. She breaks into the kings burial site and has the Valkyrs raise Rastakhan, with her new Derek mindcontrol style and contest the Zandalari leadership. The Zandalari are torn on whether Talanji still has rights to the throne with Rastakhans sudden return and thus we get a situation where she cant leave the Horde as a chunk of her people want Rastakhan leading again, who suddenly really likes the Horde. Furthermore Bwomsamdi has a crisis where he faces losing his loa position to a king, who is no longer under his thumb, has pointedly got a bone or two to pick with im and worse-still will potentially never die. Later you could have Rastakhan convince Sylvanas to let him try to get Rezan back and into the head Loa job so he can both cement his leadership position amongst the populace again and thus the Horde. Then after hes pacted with Rezan have the Loa help him slowly shake Sylvanas's influence and return mostly to his past self. He and Talanji then compromise on a joint rulership. End result Talanji, gets actual character growth and Rastakhan aint wasted!

[I put far too much thought into this...]

** - Yes, they did create Geyah for the Maghar from scratch but thats another unique circumstance where they needed another allied race asap so that Kul'tirans could get their unique rig development time and pair with Zandalari thus they needed another 2 popular races with practically no development time so, lacking perfect options, they determined to give us the Mag'har race without any of the baggage of the expansion they came from.)
Just about anything beats what we got, so needless to say I like it. So many people, way more than I expected, were excited about Rastakhan only for Blizz to make him inept and kill him off one patch in, for shame. He deserved better. This would also let Thalanji develop slowly and be less of a Mary Sue.
Reply With Quote
  #7697  
Old 02-04-2019, 06:02 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

Eternal
Menel'dirion's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The most gorgeous place in the world (if you've been there you know what I'm talking about)
Posts: 2,557

Default

Talanji’s story has just begun. Her true trials are still ahead of her.
Reply With Quote
  #7698  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:31 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

Banished
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,056
BattleTag: Hulk#2393

Default

WoW needs more real women and not ugly ones like trolls or whatever. need more elves and stuff.

But knowing how they made the kul tiran females..... Welll yeah they look like real americans.
Reply With Quote
  #7699  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:11 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,474

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurzog View Post
need more elves and stuff.
Wow, no.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #7700  
Old 02-04-2019, 10:43 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

Elune
Lord Grimtale's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Slaughtered Lamb
Posts: 22,046
BattleTag: Grimtale67#1407

Default

Gurzog I love you.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alliance whining, azeroth literally dying, battle for azeroth, for the whored, gilgoblins, mop 2.0 sucks, mop sucks, more like cata 2.0 sucks, quilboar bias, world of warcraft

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.