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Old 04-11-2013, 09:14 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Default Bioshock Dis-gush-ion Thread.

Yeah it was great and none of my friends have played it yet, and I want to talk about it. Be careful because Imma be going buck wild with spoilers up in here. This is the kind of game you don't want spoilers for.



I thought the thematic marriage between quantum mechanincs/uncertainty principle and salvation/Christianity was absolutely brilliant.

Also, when I saw Elizabeth's finger, all I could think about was that phrase: "More power in [her] little finger than...". The way that anachronisms were realized in game was just awesome. Fink's brother heard a bunch of songs from the future through tears in the space-time continuum, thus you hear Tears for Fears, R.E.M. and the Beach Boys in 1912.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:19 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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I can not stress enough that BioShock Infinite is a great game.

That said, a lot of the things that were in the trailers were cut, and the game feels scaled down. They tried to do too much, with a shaky development, and various elements felt watered down. I thoroughly enjoyed the game, but it was not perfect, and a bit (though not much) of a let down.
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Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Ten.

Years.

Last edited by Revenant; 04-11-2013 at 09:26 PM..
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:27 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
I can not stress enough that BioShock Infinite is a great game.

That said, a lot of the things that were in the trailers were cut, and the game feels scaled down. They tried to do too much, with a shaky development, and various elements felt watered down. I thoroughly enjoyed the game, but it was not perfect, and a bit (though not much) of a let down.
I didn't really watch many trailers, especially not gameplay, so I didn't really have any real expectations besides what I carried over from playing the previous titles.

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Old 04-11-2013, 09:36 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
I didn't really watch many trailers, especially not gameplay, so I didn't really have any real expectations besides what I carried over from playing the previous titles.
I may have had expectations, but the problem is not that alone.

Why do Booker and Elizabeth randomly start playing the guitar and singing? It was in a trailer and too good not to use somewhere.

Similarly, though not quite like that, elements were thrown in somewhere because they were part of the idea for the game, but were not used as best as they could have been.

The first BioShock was better at world building. In Infinite, the world is not the focus (cool as it is, and even though it was not the focus in BioShock either), it is all Booker and Elizabeth.
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Quote:
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Ten.

Years.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:36 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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I too liked it a lot, I especially loved how they tied it in with the original Bioshock instead of just making it a "spiritual" sequel. SPOILERS BELOW

Three things did bug me though:

-After Elizabeth gets her important haircut and new clothes, everyone except the Vox Populi seems to have forgotten you're in a different universe than the one you started out with (Comstock acts like Booker and Elizabeth have been on the run when in that universe she never escaped in the first place, the Songbird has the cracks from when he went underwater with Booker, and the monument is still half-destroyed).

-While I love the way the ending happened, I'm not too fond of Elizabeth being Booker's daughter. Between the Walking Dead, Dishonored, The Last of Us, and Bioshock 2, there have just been too many games lately with the story of "30s something man has to take on a parental role to a young girl". If they didn't want to do a love story they could have easily just done a platonic, inter-generational friendship; which hasn't really been done all that much in video games. It's not really a fault of Irrational's though, since Infinite's been in development before any of those games (including Bioshock 2 if I'm not mistaken) were out. Then again, it would take away from the really cool "all the Bioshock games are the same one playing out in different universes" twist.

-I felt that Columbia's story got forgotten about, and never really got the exploration and conclusion it deserved. Perhaps that will be covered in the DLC?

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
Why do Booker and Elizabeth randomly start playing the guitar and singing? It was in a trailer and too good not to use somewhere.
I think it was to calm the kid hiding from them.

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 04-11-2013 at 10:44 PM..
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:40 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
I'm not too fond of Elizabeth being Booker's daughter.
I read it a lot in reviews, but I did not see a love story in Infinite, I saw an evolution Big Daddy/Little Sister relationship. I was not pissed that Booker did not get mai waifu in the end (though the end of their relationship was... interesting).

Quote:
-I felt that Columbia's story got forgotten about, and never really got the exploration and conclusion it deserved. Perhaps that will be covered in the DLC?
I will agree with this. While not the point of the game, and I am okay with that, you abruptly shift to a burning Columbia. The transition does not work from a narrative perspective, though I get what they were trying to do. The sunny Columbia does not last, but I wanted it to.

Quote:
I think it was to calm the kid hiding from them.
Randomly.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Ten.

Years.

Last edited by Revenant; 04-11-2013 at 09:45 PM..
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:43 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
-While I love the way the ending happened, I'm not too fond of Elizabeth being Booker's daughter. Between the Walking Dead, The Last of Us, and Bioshock 2, there have just been too many games lately with the story of "30s something man has to take on a parental role to a young girl".
I chalk that up to gamers getting older and an increasing amount of both the audiences and content providers being 30s something men with children.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:44 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
I read it a lot in reviews, but I did not see a love story in Infinite, I saw an evolution Big Daddy/Little Sister relationship. I was not pissed that Booker did not get mai waifu in the end (though the end of their relationship was... interesting).
I don't mean it needs to be a love story, indeed the age gap makes it kind of gross anyway. I just meant the "guy becomes a parental figure to a girl" whether she's his actual daughter or not is kind of overused. A relationship like Ralph and Vanelope's in Wreck-It-Ralph (best friends, practically family, they just happen to be from different age groups) would have been more refreshing.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:56 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
I may have had expectations, but the problem is not that alone.

Why do Booker and Elizabeth randomly start playing the guitar and singing? It was in a trailer and too good not to use somewhere.
That was one of my favorite damn parts. It's not completely random. Before you pick it up (and you don't even have to, if you want to be a total fuckin downer) she mentions something about wishing she could play and brighten up the gloom. Again, I didn't know it was coming and it was a brief and awesome interlude from the action.

There's going to be at least 3 DLC. And I know for sure one will go into more depth about the Songbird.
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:02 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
There's going to be at least 3 DLC. And I know for sure one will go into more depth about the Songbird.
Speaking of that, the achievements for the first DLC have been added to the Steam database already (however at the moment they're just called "DLC Achievement #", with no descriptions) so perhaps we'll be seeing it sooner than expected?

I agree the origin of the Songbird would make a great DLC. My theory is that he's yet another Booker. Fink mentions that the Songbird was made from stolen Big Daddy technology, so it had to start off as a man. Who better than one of the other Bookers who had tried to save Elizabeth (the Lutece's imply they've tried sending Booker to rescue her over 120 times prior to the game starting) and instead was captured by Comstock and agreed to become the Songbird so he could still be with her. Also Booker, Comstock and the Songbird all die by drowning...
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:06 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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Personally, I think it's that little girl in the voxophones from the start of the game who wants to be Elizabeth's friend and work with Rosalind.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:10 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
That was one of my favorite damn parts. It's not completely random. Before you pick it up (and you don't even have to, if you want to be a total fuckin downer) she mentions something about wishing she could play and brighten up the gloom. Again, I didn't know it was coming and it was a brief and awesome interlude from the action.

There's going to be at least 3 DLC. And I know for sure one will go into more depth about the Songbird.
I didn't say that the scene itself was bad.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Ten.

Years.
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  #13  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:44 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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A really neat theory I saw proposed on TV Tropes:

There's always a man...


a lighthouse...


A city...

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 04-22-2013 at 10:25 PM..
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:52 PM
Porimlys Porimlys is offline

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Um I have a lot of large text dumps to put in this thread about this game. I've been wondering if I should make it but it would just be a gigantic OP where I gush on and on about every aspect of the game.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:53 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Um I have a lot of large text dumps to put in this thread about this game. I've been wondering if I should make it but it would just be a gigantic OP where I gush on and on about every aspect of the game.
This is called the "Dis-gush-ion" thread, so I see no problem with it.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:57 PM
Porimlys Porimlys is offline

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This is called the "Dis-gush-ion" thread, so I see no problem with it.
Well I'm actually gonna start with my one real complaint with the game, haha. And I'm tagging my spoilers because everyone should play this game unspoiled.

I thought the Vox Populi story went in kind of an unfortunate direction. I wasn’t crazy about the idea that the people revolting against the ultraracist nationlist state was met with the notion that “both sides are equally bad”. It just didn’t feel right to me.

Comstock is a ultraracist nationlist fuckface who built a city on the back of colored labor while at the same time promoting the idea of racial purity. He has this city wide festival where one of the high points is the stoning of a interracial couple. I’m supposed to believe that the people rebelling against this are just as bad as The Founders?

Fitzroy becoming a megalomaniac child killer just felt so slapdash and weird. I was prepared to really like her and they just kind of wrote her off as crazy. It certainly wasn’t enough to ruin the game for me, but it was a noticable hiccup in my otherwise immaculate gaming experience. I like that she tries to kill Booker because she had seen him die in this universe, I like that her reasoning is that we “complicate the narrative”, I like that they’re trying to blow up the airship at the end because they don’t know where our allegiances lie (or who we are, really). They worked as enemies without becoming baby killers. It just felt off.

I will say though, when you first jump through that tear into the dimension where the Vox are fully militarized, that whole sequence was just incredible. Fighting alongside them against The Founders, discovering the posters of Booker as a martyr, taking down the airship to their chants. I mean this is a game that cranks things up to 11 on the regular, but it was around that time that I realized just how crazy this story was going to get before it was all over.

One of the things I’d like to see from A DLC is a campaign where we play as Booker in that reality where he fights and dies alongside Daisy and helps her and the Vox Populi. I think if we saw a smoother transition for her character it could help alleviate some of the reservations I have about her character arc.


Quote:
Fink's brother heard a bunch of songs from the future through tears in the space-time continuum, thus you hear Tears for Fears, R.E.M. and the Beach Boys in 1912.
The world building for the game was just astounding. One of my favorite moments of the game came from that barber shop quartet at the start singing “God Only Knows” by the Beach Boys. I heard it and stopped, thoroughly confused. Ain’t this game set in 1912? I immediately started rationalizing it assuming that it was actually a really old song that the Beach Boys covered, heh. Later on, when I realized WHY that song was there just blew me away. That’s the kind of attention to detail you want to see in a game. There was a great cohesion and atmosphere to it all, it drew you in so effectively.

I didn't even catch Girls Just Wanna Have Fun or Fortunate Son (I actually sat and watched the woman sing the whole song but still didn't recognize it).
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:27 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Also, an interesting thing I've been wondering about the ending, so again SPOILERS.

Once you enter the baptism river for the final time, Elizabeth no longer has her necklace and Booker asks "What are you?", is the necklace an oversight, or might it be implying something? Is our Elizabeth still out there somewhere, perhaps having become something like the Lutece's? That could make an interesting DLC.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:17 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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My personal headcanon is that there are always 2 men. Booker and Comstock. Booker is the one that walks away from the baptism and Comstock receives the baptism. So I thought that after Elizabeth "baptizes" Booker at the end (and let's not forget, baptism is spiritual symbolism for drowning and rebirth, he "drowned" and "woke up again" at the beginning too) a 3rd man emerges, figuratively speaking, neither Booker nor Comstock. And the two of them go to Paris.

But that kind of goes against the whole quantum state, two sides of the same coin theme of the story. In one version of the world the man is a sinner, in the other a saint and you'll never know which one until you behold the man.

I remember at the beginning thinking I was wise and that would be the big story hook. Comstock would end up being revealed as the sinner and Booker the saint. And that Booker, the False Shepherd, is actually the savior (like Jesus and all the shepherd imagery in the Bible). The Lamb parallel was spot on though since the "Lamb" did end up sacrificing itself for the sinner.

I also loved how many layers there were to the concept of "bring us the girl, wipe away the debt". It's Infinite's "would you kindly". There's the most superficial level of Booker going to Columbia to get Liz out of the tower. There's the deeper level of it being Booker's dark past where he actually pawned off his own child to absolve his debts. Then of course there's the Christian undertones wiping away debts and covering sin that they play with and subvert - "bring us the girl" could translate to "sacrifice the lamb". Then there's the whole meta level of how the universe is trying to correct itself, or "wipe away the debt". Elizabeth going though the portal (or at least leaving part of herself on one side) created this "cosmic debt" that had to be absolved for the universe to continue on, or will the loop continue over and over in infinite iterations? Thus the question - wait for it - "Will the Circle be Unbroken, by and by, Lord, by and by?"
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.

Last edited by Saranus; 04-12-2013 at 01:32 AM..
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:09 AM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Food for thought (ending spoilers):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VScfvQGTAL8
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:35 AM
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Gonna continue plugging podcasts I have no business promoting, but PC Gamer UK had an extended special discussion on Bioshock Infinite on their podcast recently. It was a really good listen so you should check it out if you're interested.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:08 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Left part of the image is from Bioshock 2, describing the protagonist. AD = Anna DeWitt and Alpha Delta. It also lends more credence that the Big Daddy and thus, the Songbird are another iteration of "infinite Booker".

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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
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  #22  
Old 04-15-2013, 06:19 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Old 04-15-2013, 11:15 PM
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Love the anachronistic music bits.

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Old 04-16-2013, 01:14 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:17 AM
Porimlys Porimlys is offline

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Maybe I've been watching too many Paul Thomas Anderson movies but a lot of the Infinite soundtrack really reminded me of Johnny Greenwoods stuff. The Master, The Will Be Blood, etc...
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