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Old 07-06-2017, 02:50 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Default Blizzard's design direction for the storytelling of the Void/Shadow in 7.3

I'm lazy so I'll just post screenshots of what I said in some discord channels










Thoughts?
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:02 PM
Apep Apep is offline

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Wasn't it stated in Chronicles that reality sprung from Light and Void clashing? Kind of necessitates the existence of both, which implies neither are inherently good nor inherently bad. They simply exist. The Void consumes because that is a fundamental facet of its existence; it wouldn't be Void if it wasn't empty. It just so happens that obliteration is bad to things that rely on reality being cohesive, i.e. us.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:24 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Necessary doesn't mean good.

While I'd love if the shadow and void got treated better in the narrative, Blizz's handling of the shadowmoon makes me doubt it.
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Old 07-06-2017, 06:02 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Necessary doesn't mean good.

While I'd love if the shadow and void got treated better in the narrative, Blizz's handling of the shadowmoon makes me doubt it.
Agreed.

It's become a rather tired cliche that the vast majority of dark/void magic-users are evil and make up the most types of enemies we fight every expansion. I understand the concept that it's because void magic is inherently evil, but I would find it interesting if there had been a playable race or faction group that regularly practiced shadow magic as a core part of their culture while still maintaining being heroic. (Cursed Arakkoa were exactly this, but they are irrelevant now.)
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Agreed.

It's become a rather tired cliche that the vast majority of dark/void magic-users are evil and make up the most types of enemies we fight every expansion. I understand the concept that it's because void magic is inherently evil, but I would find it interesting if there had been a playable race or faction group that regularly practiced shadow magic as a core part of their culture while still maintaining being heroic. (Cursed Arakkoa were exactly this, but they are irrelevant now.)
Initially, that's where the Undead seemed to be going, but they've botched the cult of shadow completely. I think this is their attempt to fix thing and drag the story back into the grey line that TFT held.
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Old 07-08-2017, 02:40 PM
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Just posting this here. Locus-Walker is a Void Ethereal, going by his model.
Quote:
Locus-Walker: I see you've met the viceroy.
Alleria: What are your people doing here?
Locus-Walker: I am here to find out. Follow, if you can.
Alleria: Wait!

Alleria: This way.
Locus-Walker: I have something I want to show you, but we mustn't be seen. Follow.
Alleria: Explain yourself first.
Locus-Walker: Such impatience. I believe you will find the answers you seek on the other side.

Locus-Walker: How industriously they work. A pity they will be overtaken.
Alleria: I sense a little disappointment. Was I really your best student?
Locus-Walker: I had hoped to find at least one promising soul on this rock.
Alleria: I have not turned away from that path. You know why I resisted.
Alleria: I need to finish what I started, Locus-Walker.
Locus-Walker: Can you, though? With your... attachments?

Alleria: What are you talking about?
Locus-Walker: Why your mate of course. How does he feel about your choices?
Alleria: Turalyon trusts me to make hard decisions, and I him.
Locus-Walker: I am not talking about trust.
Locus-Walker: How can you expect to embrace the Shadow with the Light shining so brightly at your side?
Alleria: Without the Light there is no Shadow teacher.

Locus-Walker: Well, Windrunner? What say you?
Alleria: Show me the path. I am ready to walk it.
Locus-Walker: Right this way.

Locus-Walker: Ah! Right on time, fleshling.
Locus-Walker: Prepare yourself, Alleria. Your friend here will hold its attention.
Alleria: That thing... it's... calling to me!
Locus-Walker: How do you feel?
Alleria: My head is... swimming.
Locus-Walker: Remember... So long as your mind is your own, you command this power. It does not command you.
Locus-Walker: Yes, this specimen will do.
Alleria: How did you do it by yourself?
Locus-Walker: Ah, well. Perhaps I will tell you one day.
Locus-Walker: Until then, I will be keeping an eye on your progress.

Alleria: You should return to the Vindicaar and share what we have learned.
Alleria: My path takes me into the Seat of the Triumvirate... to whatever fate awaits me there.
Alleria: I am certain Velen will understand.

Locus-Walker: Seize the power of the portals, Alleria! It can become your weapon!
Locus-Walker: Focus your mind. Remember your training.
Alleria: Arator! Turalyon!?
Locus-Walker: The Void shows only half truths. Trust your instincts.
Alleria: I can't-- I-- Argh!
Alleria: I won't let you! I am not yours to claim!
Alleria: Begone, wretched darkness.
Locus-Walker: Fight, curse you!
Locus-Walker: Be sure to collect our prize, fleshling. I will tend to Alleria.
Locus-Walker: The heart of a demigod. This is no mere token, Alleria.
Locus-Walker: Take it, and you will be one step closer to your destiny.
Alleria: I understand. Thank you. Both of you.
Alleria: It's... cold.

Alleria: I sense great despair emanating from within. L'ura...
Locus-Walker: Yes, the naaru. We must get inside. Alleria, the skills you have learned can open the way.
Alleria: Understood. Champions, once the door is open clear the way to L'ura. We will be right behind you.
Locus-Walker: Siphon the portal energy! The naaru's weakness will become your strength!
Locus-Walker: Take her shadow for your own, Alleria! Do as I trained you!

Locus-Walker: My brethren are as industrious as they are clever. I fear the incursion point needs another round of cleansing. You know what to do.
Locus-Walker: Amusing how they continue to underestimate you fleshlings, is it not?
Alleria: This place is churning out darkness, manifesting into crystals of pure void. The Shadowguard covets this resource. We must claim it before they do.
Alleria: That is one less arrow in their quiver. Perhaps I can find a use for these crystals that will benefit our cause.

Locus-Walker: My brethren have taken it upon themselves to hasten this area's fall to darkness. Disrupt their activities. Or don't. The Void will have its due either way.
Locus-Walker: You know what they say. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...
Locus-Walker: Careful. I dabble in powers beyond your comprehension.
Locus-Walker: Yes, I do have a "real" name. It's none of your business.
Locus-Walker: Were I to speak it aloud, a thousand void portals would rip open and some very unpleasant entities would come looking to collect on old debts.
Locus-Walker: But by all means, if you want to see reality itself torn asunder, keep asking about my name.
Locus-Walker: Here's a hint: it's an ancient word of power. If I whisper it in your ear, your mind will fall into madness. Still want to play?

Alleria: Your timing is fortuitous, champions. Members of the Shadowguard are nearby, infusing the natives with void energy. To what end, I do not know.
Alleria: Get in there and try to figure out why they are, and put a stop to their efforts.
Alleria: Such chaos... such anguish. I have never sensed anything like it before.
Locus-Walker: It is rare that a naaru falls into Void this way. The few cases I know of have occurred when mortals were involved. What fascinating implications...
Locus-Walker: Such musings can wait, though. This entity must die.
Alleri: How did a being of the Light become a creature of Shadow?
Locus-Walker: The Void is a force of change... of transformation. Shadows are fluid, ever shifting.
Alleria: I feel the fallen naaru's power. It beckons me.
Locus-Walker: You stand on the cusp of destiny, Alleria. There will be choices to make... and consequences to face.
Alleria: Even defeated, the darkened naaru surges with power. I hear the shadows calling to me.
Locus-Walker: Claim its essence, Alleria Windrunner. Make its chaos your own.
Locus-Walker: You survived... interesting! How do you feel?
Alleria: The voices are louder now. More insistent. But they do not control me.
Locus-Walker: You asked me to teach you to use the Void as a weapon. Now that weapon is you.
Alleria: It seems my training is complete.
Locus-Walker: Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We need to test the limits of this newfound power. Come.
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:31 PM
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This is pretty big, not just for confirmation of the Light/Shadow combination, but also that the Ethereal will play a much bigger part in the future. Seems like Locus-Walker was either Etherium or what inspired the Etherium to become what they are. Maybe one of the original Ethereals from K'aresh that had to deal with Dimensius?
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:54 PM
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I pointed this out in the big thread, but it's really weird to me how the Void is suddenly actively corrupting Broken and part of Mac'Aree as if it were fel or blight. We've never seen the actual Void (meaning not Old God stuff) do that before, its ambient ability has always been sucking up energy/souls like a vacuum, which was actually interesting. I really hope 8.0 doesn't scrap that aspect of it to just have it basically just be purple fel like it's looking here.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:14 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
I pointed this out in the big thread, but it's really weird to me how the Void is suddenly actively corrupting Broken and part of Mac'Aree as if it were fel or blight. We've never seen the actual Void (meaning not Old God stuff) do that before, its ambient ability has always been sucking up energy/souls like a vacuum, which was actually interesting. I really hope 8.0 doesn't scrap that aspect of it to just have it basically just be purple fel like it's looking here.
Well, this may be related.
Quote:
Alleria: Your timing is fortuitous, champions. Members of the Shadowguard are nearby, infusing the natives with void energy. To what end, I do not know.
We've seen the Void does tend to turn souls into void creatures before, and there were plenty of void tainted creatures in WoD, so this isn't a strictly new phenomena. I'd probably even connect it to the whole Void-form thing Alleria has going on, like a demonstration of what happens when the Void masters you instead.
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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
This is pretty big, not just for confirmation of the Light/Shadow combination, but also that the Ethereal will play a much bigger part in the future. Seems like Locus-Walker was either Etherium or what inspired the Etherium to become what they are. Maybe one of the original Ethereals from K'aresh that had to deal with Dimensius?
Ethereals like Locus-Walker will probably be part of some kind of "good" Void faction of some kind. People who know how to properly make use of the Void and deal with its powers, who understand how it and its whispers function or something.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:23 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
and there were plenty of void tainted creatures in WoD, so this isn't a strictly new phenomena.
Where? Not snarky or anything, I honestly don't remember a one. There were the Shadowmoon's undead but that's not really the same thing as Void corrupting something.
Quote:
I'd probably even connect it to the whole Void-form thing Alleria has going on, like a demonstration of what happens when the Void masters you instead.
Other way around there. Alleria's Void form is under her control and she can toggle it on and off, it hasn't mastered her.
Alleria Windrunner: The transformation you witnessed is under my control, to be used when I see fit. I am the same person I was... and yet, something more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
Ethereals like Locus-Walker will probably be part of some kind of "good" Void faction of some kind. People who know how to properly make use of the Void and deal with its powers, who understand how it and its whispers function or something.
The new ethereals are bosses in the dungeon and a world raid boss, though. As much as I'd like to see more ethereals on our side that really doesn't sound like the case to me.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:31 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
Where? Not snarky or anything, I honestly don't remember a one. There were the Shadowmoon's undead but that's not really the same thing as Void corrupting something.

Other way around there. Alleria's Void form is under her control and she can toggle it on and off, it hasn't mastered her.
Alleria Windrunner: The transformation you witnessed is under my control, to be used when I see fit. I am the same person I was... and yet, something more.


The new ethereals are bosses in the dungeon and a world raid boss, though. As much as I'd like to see more ethereals on our side that really doesn't sound like the case to me.
You misunderstood me about Alleria. She is an example of when you master the Void. The Broken are an example of the opposite.

As for the new ethereals? Yes, some of them are enemies. Locus-Walker is also a Void Ethereal, and not an enemy. He may have other contacts with other Ethereals who think like him and share his perspective on the Void.

And examples of the Void corrupting things?
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_wolf
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Voidtalon_of_the_Dark_Star
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:39 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Where? Not snarky or anything, I honestly don't remember a one. There were the Shadowmoon's undead but that's not really the same thing as Void corrupting something.
The Ethereum Staging Grounds in Netherstorm, where they were corrupting their leader and soldiers into void while spilling void slime all over in the process. Also the grounds immediately surrounding Manaforge Ultris are marked by pools of the same void-sludge.
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:13 PM
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???????????
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:20 AM
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I wish I could look on this Alleria-masters-The-Void thing as anymore than an excuse-plot to make her closer to Sylvanas, but I won't hold my breath. They'll probably throw in something about Vereesa being disgusted by it and the High Elves want her dead or something.
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:43 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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I wish I could look on this Alleria-masters-The-Void thing as anymore than an excuse-plot to make her closer to Sylvanas, but I won't hold my breath. They'll probably throw in something about Vereesa being disgusted by it and the High Elves want her dead or something.
I don't see how it makes her closer to Sylvanas unless she's also been meddling with the Void. To me, it looks like it's setting up a "friendly" Void faction.

Unless they're going to add a Dark Ranger Class and have Sylvanas and Alleria as the Horde and Alliance leaders of it, while making it more of a Void Ranger.
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Old 07-09-2017, 01:30 PM
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Before Anduin took up his father's sword he was portrayed as being very good with a bow during the WoW comic up through Cataclysm. I was hoping that some kind of "magic ranger" class would be made, cobbling together influence from the Priestess of the Moon, Dark Ranger and Shadow Hunter WCIII units while also using Anduin for more contemporary light influence.
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Old 07-09-2017, 01:42 PM
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Before Anduin took up his father's sword he was portrayed as being very good with a bow during the WoW comic up through Cataclysm. I was hoping that some kind of "magic ranger" class would be made, cobbling together influence from the Priestess of the Moon, Dark Ranger and Shadow Hunter WCIII units while also using Anduin for more contemporary light influence.
I can see Vol'jin mentoring Anduin from the grave, helping to cope with his father's death as well as balance the Light/Shadow (as opposed to the complete dichotomous Alleria vs Velen thing going on in 7.3).

I'd also love to see him as the patron Loa of the Horde, encapsulating what Bwonsamdi missed in his translation to WoW (e.g. Samedi's whole "restful sleep of the dead" thing).
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:37 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
I don't see how it makes her closer to Sylvanas unless she's also been meddling with the Void. To me, it looks like it's setting up a "friendly" Void faction.

Unless they're going to add a Dark Ranger Class and have Sylvanas and Alleria as the Horde and Alliance leaders of it, while making it more of a Void Ranger.
Because the Alliance don't have any races where shadow or void magic-use is core to their culture, much less any race that worships shadow. Holy Light and Druidism are the only two spiritual beliefs that are accepted. Sure, the Alliance have access to Warlocks, Shadow Priests, and Death Knights but they are shunned and hated by every single race within the Alliance and are only accepted as cannon fodder during wartime.

A Dark Ranger class can be explained for both factions but due to the above, it's always going to fit the Horde far better than it ever will for Alliance.
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Old 07-09-2017, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Because the Alliance don't have any races where shadow or void magic-use is core to their culture, much less any race that worships shadow. Holy Light and Druidism are the only two spiritual beliefs that are accepted. Sure, the Alliance have access to Warlocks, Shadow Priests, and Death Knights but they are shunned and hated by every single race within the Alliance and are only accepted as cannon fodder during wartime.
Dark Irons. Considering they were basically the main Alliance dwarves in WoD, I'd say despite so much Shadow and Void being involved in their society they've integrated and become accepted pretty damned quickly. Even the other dwarf clans seem to have since adopted more of a gruff rivalry with them rather than remaining bitter enemies.
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Old 07-09-2017, 07:15 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Dark Irons. Considering they were basically the main Alliance dwarves in WoD, I'd say despite so much Shadow and Void being involved in their society they've integrated and become accepted pretty damned quickly. Even the other dwarf clans seem to have since adopted more of a gruff rivalry with them rather than remaining bitter enemies.
Their thing's fire not shadow though.
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Old 07-09-2017, 07:35 PM
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Their thing's fire not shadow though.
Modgud/Xal'atath? All those years of consorting with the Twilight's Hammer? Shadow Priest Moira? They even live in Shadowforge City.

Fire's a big part of it, but their theme's always had a mix of fire and shadow. By way of Modgud, then Ragnaros, they were basically the Old Gods' own pet clan of dwarves.
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Old 07-09-2017, 07:44 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Dark Irons. Considering they were basically the main Alliance dwarves in WoD, I'd say despite so much Shadow and Void being involved in their society they've integrated and become accepted pretty damned quickly. Even the other dwarf clans seem to have since adopted more of a gruff rivalry with them rather than remaining bitter enemies.
Dark Irons seem to have shifted into just being repainted Bronzebeard Dwarves. Even in WoD, none of their featured characters had anything to do with using shadow magic and could have easily just been replaced with Bronzebard dwarf characters. Them not being a playable race doesn't help either.

If any race should have been shadow-themed as part of the Alliance, it should have been Worgen, since they were heavily shadow-themed during vanilla WoW before being made playable. That aspect of them never should have been written away, since the Holy Light and Druidism themes they have right now don't do anything to make them interesting. Writing that aspect of them away and then the sudden reveal that Alleria uses void powers and will therefore make the High Elves more associated with shadow magic is bullshit to me.

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Old 07-09-2017, 08:17 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Modgud/Xal'atath? All those years of consorting with the Twilight's Hammer? Shadow Priest Moira? They even live in Shadowforge City.

Fire's a big part of it, but their theme's always had a mix of fire and shadow. By way of Modgud, then Ragnaros, they were basically the Old Gods' own pet clan of dwarves.
None of the ones in the -Alliance- use it though. It seems to be the thing the 'bad' Dark Irons working with the Twilight's hammer still use.
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Old 07-10-2017, 03:04 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
I wish I could look on this Alleria-masters-The-Void thing as anymore than an excuse-plot to make her closer to Sylvanas, but I won't hold my breath. They'll probably throw in something about Vereesa being disgusted by it and the High Elves want her dead or something.
I'm not certain Vereesa and the High Elves are going to be that big of a hurdle. I'm somewhat more inclined to think her own husband might have reservations. And that's where the real crux of the matter is. Alleria isn't about to switch sides on Turalyon unless he shuns her.

I can see her accomplishing one of two things:
1. Creating a new race/or subrace of void-touched elves. Probably not going to happen.
2. I'd love to see what happens if we mix her with the Sunwell. Perhaps she leads a void fueled campaign to retake her homeland from light-wielding Blood Elves.

I suppose its up to her whether she feels she can relate more to Sylvanas. Only if the void has transformed her into a monster, which she denies.......
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:34 PM
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Alleria going void is another really bad development of characters due to gaming mechanics needs.
Alliance needed the strong and savage female ranger character kicking asses around that Alleria is. Now her character is going to a well bottom were it should have never gone and where she cannot be rescued.
If Blizzard was afraid of having two clones in her and Vareesa, maybe it was Vareesa who should have gone shadow.
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