Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > Scrolls of Lore > Halls of Lordaeron

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #56901  
Old 09-29-2017, 10:20 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

Elune
Kakwakas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 8,383

Darkmoon Card: Elementals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
So, I'm not going to link to it to make Cantus and the mods jobs easier.
Google UNDERCOVER IN ANTIFA: Their Tactics and Media Support Exposed! by Steven Crowder.

I fully expect this to not get watched, but a rundown

- Antifa supporters planned a violent attack, talking about luring people to cars to stab and shoot them, using encrypted apps to plan this, actively handing out sharp weapons. Knives. Ice picks.

-Footage of this was gained, leading to arrests.

-Footage was offered, in front of the police, to local and national news sources, including Nightline, and they walked away

-When the news stations covered arrests later at the "protests", they didn't mention any of the lead up, that they were offered information, video, and a story up front.
Even if, hypothetically speaking, those weren't false flag actors of agent provocateurs, there's no case there just like there apparently isn't with neonazis talking about killing Jews.
I seem to mention these guys a lot, but they just seem to be relevant reall often. That Hutaree Militia group (the one who had a member that I would talk to a lot at my first job) was arrested for planning to kill a cop, bomb the funeral, and hide out in a booby-trapped woods. Their legal defense claimed it was a trial about freedom of speech and they were acquitted of all charges of conspiracy and sedition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutare..._investigation
Plus, as mentioned, Crowder is a hack.
__________________
Member #14
Reply With Quote
  #56902  
Old 09-29-2017, 10:41 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,485

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Even if, hypothetically speaking, those weren't false flag actors of agent provocateurs, there's no case there just like there apparently isn't with neonazis talking about killing Jews.
I seem to mention these guys a lot, but they just seem to be relevant reall often. That Hutaree Militia group (the one who had a member that I would talk to a lot at my first job) was arrested for planning to kill a cop, bomb the funeral, and hide out in a booby-trapped woods. Their legal defense claimed it was a trial about freedom of speech and they were acquitted of all charges of conspiracy and sedition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutare..._investigation
Plus, as mentioned, Crowder is a hack.
Jesus fucking christ, that's insane.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #56903  
Old 09-29-2017, 11:08 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

Elune
Ruinshin's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 21,145

Default

Quote:
Why would this make our jobs easier or harder? We're not here to police thought, we're here to moderate actions.
names are named.
__________________
Fucking Epic :X
Reply With Quote
  #56904  
Old 09-29-2017, 11:58 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

Elune
Kakwakas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 8,383

Darkmoon Card: Elementals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Jesus fucking christ, that's insane.
Well, apparently it worked. I never heard much of the way of details, but I think it was something to do with the exact level of planning they had. Some of them did end up getting convicted of some kind of weapon-related charges, though.
__________________
Member #14
Reply With Quote
  #56905  
Old 09-29-2017, 01:21 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

Elune
Ruinshin's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 21,145

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Well, apparently it worked. I never heard much of the way of details, but I think it was something to do with the exact level of planning they had. Some of them did end up getting convicted of some kind of weapon-related charges, though.
I mean, its basically, if memory serves, the same argumenent used for the planned acid attack on trump fans. Even when someone had tickets to the event, it was nothing that could be proven.

You take the good with the bad with free speech.
__________________
Fucking Epic :X
Reply With Quote
  #56906  
Old 09-30-2017, 11:45 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

Elune
Kakwakas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 8,383

Darkmoon Card: Elementals

So, it looks like the delay in Puerto Rico getting help from the federal government was due in part to the president taking his 62nd golfing trip this year.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.ccc4a7b7b6ef

And in a masterful show of projection, he's accusing the mayor of San Juan, PR of poor leadership (via twitter while on a golfing trip).
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7975476.html
Can this guy be any more of a disgusting piece of shit?
__________________
Member #14

Last edited by Kakwakas; 09-30-2017 at 12:20 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #56907  
Old 09-30-2017, 02:54 PM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

Arch-Druid
Shekinah's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: On a pale horse
Posts: 2,423

Mana

He also said that Puerto Rico "just wants handouts" and doesn't "want to do anything for themselves." So yeah, he can definitely be more disgusting.
__________________
I like to cook. Here's a thread on how it relates to Warcraft.
Reply With Quote
  #56908  
Old 09-30-2017, 03:14 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

Elune
Kakwakas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 8,383

Darkmoon Card: Elementals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shekinah View Post
He also said that Puerto Rico "just wants handouts" and doesn't "want to do anything for themselves." So yeah, he can definitely be more disgusting.
Remember recently when I sarcastically said similar things about the hurricane relief efforts in FL and TX and some posters here said I was disgusting or a terrible person for it?
Where are these posters now that the president is saying the same thing but is completely serious about it?
__________________
Member #14

Last edited by Kakwakas; 09-30-2017 at 03:17 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #56909  
Old 10-02-2017, 10:03 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,052
BattleTag: Pyrolithic#1538

Default

Not that the ongoing situation in Puerto Rico isn't a massive humanitarian crisis that's only likely to get worse as people continue to run out or/low on food, gasoline, clean drinking water, and shelter, but now the United States (and honestly, the world) is likely going to focus intensely on the 50+ people killed in the shooting in Las Vegas and subsequent stampede.

So now the United States's political attention is likely to be on the shooting (I haven't seen anyone suggest this was an act of terrorism, so I'm guessing we don't know the shooter's motives?), while millions of other US citizens are struggling for their lives.

So I keep banging on this drum, but I'd encourage everyone, if they can afford it, to donate to charitable organizations like the Red Cross, and also to donate blood, since there's likely to be a spike in demand in the immediate aftermath of so many wounded.
Reply With Quote
  #56910  
Old 10-02-2017, 11:34 AM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

Eternal
spidey1980's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,305

Default

So the US had their annual mass shooting today. And it set a new record!

If only there was a law that makes owning and carrying a whole arsenal of guns around much more difficult...
__________________
Quote:
Teenagers (or older) at a Left wing indoctrination camp*
Nothing of value was lost.
Hammerbrew commenting on Anders Behring Breivik's killing spree - 2017
Reply With Quote
  #56911  
Old 10-02-2017, 11:41 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

Echo of the Past
BaronGrackle's Avatar
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 15,162

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
So the US had their annual mass shooting today. And it set a new record!

If only there was a law that makes owning and carrying a whole arsenal of guns around much more difficult...
Oh good, you can argue with Kak and Rag while I watch.
Reply With Quote
  #56912  
Old 10-02-2017, 11:59 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness - Moderator
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: All the lands of Wonder.
Posts: 40,947

Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
So the US had their annual mass shooting today. And it set a new record!

If only there was a law that makes owning and carrying a whole arsenal of guns around much more difficult...
Imo, your comment is too snide, considering the event you're talking about.
Reply With Quote
  #56913  
Old 10-02-2017, 12:08 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,977

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
So the US had their annual mass shooting today. And it set a new record!

If only there was a law that makes owning and carrying a whole arsenal of guns around much more difficult...
Nice way of exploiting a terrible tragedy to push your political narrative. 10/10.
Reply With Quote
  #56914  
Old 10-02-2017, 12:13 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

Eternal
spidey1980's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,305

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Imo, your comment is too snide
You are very astute.

Frankly, whining about these events doesn't help anyway. Not as long as senators and congressmen keep fellating the NRA.
As far as i'm concerned this and every other mass shooting is in large parts on them. Not the fact that there is a shooting, though. That's on whoever pulls the trigger.
I'm talking about the amount of victims. That's absolutely on them.
You can't kill 50+ people with a knife.
__________________
Quote:
Teenagers (or older) at a Left wing indoctrination camp*
Nothing of value was lost.
Hammerbrew commenting on Anders Behring Breivik's killing spree - 2017
Reply With Quote
  #56915  
Old 10-02-2017, 12:29 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

Elune
Kakwakas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 8,383

Darkmoon Card: Elementals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Nice way of exploiting a terrible tragedy to push your political narrative. 10/10.
I'll give him that it's at least directly related to the event even though I disagree with him. It's not like all those fake facebook status "screenshots" I've seen making the rounds on the internet claiming he's part of certain groups. That shit is fucked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
Not as long as senators and congressmen keep fellating the NRA.
The NRA has a pretty bad track record with gun rights and they've strayed far from their original purpose.

Quote:
You can't kill 50+ people with a knife.
Maybe not, but you can with the combined knowledge gained from a 100-level chemistry class and a 100-level electronics class. Or like 20 minutes on the internet.
The right to keep and bear arms is just like freedom of speech. Sometimes bad shit happens, but that's no reason to throw them both away.
__________________
Member #14

Last edited by Kakwakas; 10-02-2017 at 12:35 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #56916  
Old 10-02-2017, 12:34 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness - Moderator
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: All the lands of Wonder.
Posts: 40,947

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
You are very astute.
I know, right?
Reply With Quote
  #56917  
Old 10-02-2017, 01:06 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

Elune
Ruinshin's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 21,145

Default

Quote:
The right to keep and bear arms is just like freedom of speech. Sometimes bad shit happens, but that's no reason to throw them both away.
Right?
__________________
Fucking Epic :X
Reply With Quote
  #56918  
Old 10-02-2017, 02:11 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

Ethermancer - Admin
Cantus's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: DC, U.S.
Posts: 11,090
BattleTag: Cantus#1700

Default

Crossbows used to be considered a dishonorable, even heinous weapon. Then firearms. On and on throughout history, as weapon's technology advanced, we declared its most current incarnation "evil beyond reproach." As we became used to defending against those things in the theater of war, we began to accept their uses.

But there's a certain break point, a time when the ability to kill too efficiently and too indiscriminately is actually beyond the pale. When it's actually immoral. White phosphorus and cluster munitions. Land mines. These are, in the theater of war, too much. And by that same token, in the theater of peace lesser creatures of war should never be accepted as reasonable.

You don't need a semi-automatic rifle that can be easily modified into full auto. You don't need armor piercing bullets. You don't need other forms of penetrative or exceptionally deadly rounds in the average home. These are, in a very literal sense, overkill. More importantly, they're not even logical. In an active shooter situation, the police are going to assume people carrying weapons are the shooters. In a home defense situation, a rifle cannot be maneuvered around a standard hallway. The only reason to ask for this level of firepower is to state that you're willing and able to oppose the government, and that itself makes no sense. If you want to be a sovereign citizen and rebel against the state, you're not facing off against equal firepower. You're facing against snipers, tac teams, surveillance states, and APC's. You can even be facing off against military level firepower. You literally don't stand a chance using a long rifle.

So...why should we celebrate and uphold the use of AR style rifles? It's in no one's best interests, including your own. A shotgun or handgun still has a potential purpose (though statistically, not very effective), but a semi-auto rifle doesn't. Hunting with it demeans the sport of hunting. Defending yourself with it will likely get you or others killed. What's the reason we let civilians walk around with something that holds this much power?
__________________

Rationalizing the irrational since 2005.
Reply With Quote
  #56919  
Old 10-02-2017, 02:56 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

Not Sure If Trolling...
Slowpokeking's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,026

Default

Sad sad day. Such a tragedy.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #56920  
Old 10-02-2017, 03:05 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

Elune
Kakwakas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 8,383

Darkmoon Card: Elementals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
When it's actually immoral. White phosphorus and cluster munitions. Land mines. These are, in the theater of war, too much.
Those are banned (along with chemical weapons) due to their indiscriminate and horrific nature.

Quote:
You don't need a semi-automatic rifle that can be easily modified into full auto.
I'm not aware of any that can be easily modified to be full auto in any realistic fashion. Anyone with the technical skill, knowledge, and (most importantly) tools to convert a semi-auto weapon into full-auto has all the same skills and tools to make one from a block or sheet of steel.

Quote:
You don't need armor piercing bullets.
"Armor piercing" is a nebulous term anything can pierce armor if the armor is thin enough.

Quote:
You don't need other forms of penetrative or exceptionally deadly rounds in the average home. These are, in a very literal sense, overkill.
Weapons chambered in reasonably-low penetration calibers like .223/5.56 (your standard NATO round used in ARs/M16s/M4s, etc) are popular for this reason, but there are still situations in which your target may be behind hard cover. In these scenarios, you do indeed want more penetration.

Besides, there are a lot of things I don't need but I have the right to.

Quote:
More importantly, they're not even logical. In an active shooter situation, the police are going to assume people carrying weapons are the shooters.
AFAIK, nobody has ever been shot by police during an active shooter situation because they were holed up with their own gun.

Quote:
In a home defense situation, a rifle cannot be maneuvered around a standard hallway.
Not exceptionally well, but it can. Carbines moreso. This is also why attempting to "clear the house" during a home defense scenario isn't recommended. Running around is just going to make you easier to kill. You shelter in place unless you absolutely have to move rooms (eg, to be in the same room as your children).

Quote:
The only reason to ask for this level of firepower is to state that you're willing and able to oppose the government, and that itself makes no sense. If you want to be a sovereign citizen and rebel against the state, you're not facing off against equal firepower. You're facing against snipers, tac teams, surveillance states, and APC's. You can even be facing off against military level firepower. You literally don't stand a chance using a long rifle.
I'm not even aware of any revolutions that were fought wherein the entire military took the government's side, and there's usually a foreign power backing them as well. There's usually a split. Armed citizenry aren't the backbone of a revolution, but support. Look at the recent conflict in Crimea for one example.

Quote:
So...why should we celebrate and uphold the use of AR style rifles? It's in no one's best interests, including your own. A shotgun or handgun still has a potential purpose (though statistically, not very effective), but a semi-auto rifle doesn't.
ARs are the #1 recommended home defense weapon right now. Amongst other reasons, it's because the 5.56 round is great when it comes to reducing overpenetration. Conversely, 9mm (probably the most common handgun round) is notorious for overpenetration. The efficacy of shotguns (12ga and specific loads in it, specifically) is a hotly debated topic regarding home defense, but is generally considered a good choice (despite being as unwieldy as a rifle).

Quote:
Hunting with it demeans the sport of hunting.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Hunting laws vary from state to state, but in most places it's illegal to use 5.56 because it's too small and weak.

Quote:
Defending yourself with it will likely get you or others killed.
Not true. Statistics on this are a bit hard to track, but most instances of defensive gun don't even result in any shots fired. The victim showing that they have the means and intent to defend themselves is enough to deter most attackers.

Quote:
What's the reason we let civilians walk around with something that holds this much power?
Equality. For example, I know of no other method of defense in which my wife would have the same defensive capabilities as a 200+ pound attacker.
__________________
Member #14
Reply With Quote
  #56921  
Old 10-02-2017, 03:11 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

Eternal
spidey1980's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,305

Default

What Cantus said. Allowing citizens to own and carry assault rifles is quite literally overkill and does way more bad than it does good.

"But muh freedom", you say?
Well, with all due respect, fuck your freedom. People are dying when they shouldn't have to. Lifes are more important than the right to wave your ersatz-dicks around.
__________________
Quote:
Teenagers (or older) at a Left wing indoctrination camp*
Nothing of value was lost.
Hammerbrew commenting on Anders Behring Breivik's killing spree - 2017
Reply With Quote
  #56922  
Old 10-02-2017, 03:18 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

Elune
Ruinshin's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 21,145

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
What Cantus said. Allowing citizens to own and carry assault rifles is quite literally overkill and does way more bad than it does good.

"But muh freedom", you say?
Well, with all due respect, fuck your freedom. People are dying when they shouldn't have to. Lifes are more important than the right to wave your ersatz-dicks around.
No they arent.

Also fuck off
__________________
Fucking Epic :X
Reply With Quote
  #56923  
Old 10-02-2017, 03:54 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

Ethermancer - Admin
Cantus's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: DC, U.S.
Posts: 11,090
BattleTag: Cantus#1700

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
No they arent.

Also fuck off
We're literally talking about this because people died while someone with automatic long-rifles shot up a crowd...again.

Kakwakas, everything you said about the mechanics of firearms is both true and completely besides the point. I never said what millimeter the bullets should be, I said those that are more likely to penetrate and do so in a rapid fire/more deadly way are problematic. That basically implies that, if a 5.56 is less likely to be fatal, they should be the civilian standard as opposed to the 9. More to the point, you also described two separate situations (one case where penetration is better, one where it's worse) as both positives in scenarios. Again, both ways don't work, you need a base-line and a range that's reasonable, and beyond that (where it's ineffective or too effective) shouldn't be allowed in civilian hands.

In terms of open carry of long-rifles in an emergency:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...-say-law-works

As to the "existence of a gun" situation: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm
Legal self defense is close to the 1 percentile (statistically significant, but only just, and only in the lower range of significance). Basically, the existence of a gun, when turned into the need for its actual use, makes the situation worse instead of better. Not happy with a 2003 study? How about 2015
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...91743515001188
The statistics on this are pretty stark. Owning a gun as a self-defense tool is, in the majority of cases, not a good idea.

And that's for all firearms, not just AR style long rifles. So, when we're talking about AR's, and we both agree that they're not good for self-defense, you have to ask what the point is? I'm not talking about removing all long-rifles from stores, but semi-auto in a city makes zero sense. In the middle of the Alaskan wilderness...sure, bring it on (though from what pro-Gun folks told me, bear spray is still the better choice, followed closely by a hand cannon of a revolver). In Las Vegas, in Dallas, in Miami...what are you ever going to need a semi-auto long rifle for?

And finally, in terms of hunting deer...if you need a semi-auto to kill a buck, you need to go back to the range. Hunting is only a sport if the prey has a chance. If you can just unload 10 bullets up its ass because you missed your first shot, then you don't belong anywhere near a hunting stand.
__________________

Rationalizing the irrational since 2005.
Reply With Quote
  #56924  
Old 10-02-2017, 04:09 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

Elune
Ruinshin's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 21,145

Default

Quote:
We're literally talking about this because people died while someone with automatic long-rifles shot up a crowd...again.
That's the thing with rights.

You don't get rid of or limit them because bad shit happens.

If you do, they aren't rights. They are platitudes.
__________________
Fucking Epic :X
Reply With Quote
  #56925  
Old 10-02-2017, 04:22 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

Eternal
spidey1980's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,305

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
That's the thing with rights.

You don't get rid of or limit them because bad shit happens.
Well, I'm glad our ancient ancestors didn't follow your utterly bizarre logic when they outlawed murder.
I'm sure a lot of people were pretty pissed about this (after all, you're taking away their nature-given right to kill people) but in the end it was the right thing to do.
__________________
Quote:
Teenagers (or older) at a Left wing indoctrination camp*
Nothing of value was lost.
Hammerbrew commenting on Anders Behring Breivik's killing spree - 2017
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
politics, serious business, sylvanas for president

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.