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  #26  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:01 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
They are. Nerzhul sold out the orcs and the Scourge destroyed Lordaeron and Quel'thalas.
Both the Horde and Alliance are victims of the Scourge. To claim otherwise is dishonest.
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  #27  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:01 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
Varian Wrynn?
Do I look like the kind of guy who follows Mists' Varian?

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Originally Posted by HackBenjamin View Post
I would be interested to know how to creative process happens at Blizzard. Do they have dedicated writers for both factions? Do these people answer to a neutral overlord?
I am pretty sure there's just one story team, dominated by Metzen and Kosak. I may be wrong, though.
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  #28  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:03 PM
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Fojar isn't my master. I answer a higher call.
Which reminds me.

Fetch my slippers, minion!
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  #29  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:05 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Which reminds me.

Fetch my slippers, minion!
You just wait until the Master learns you tried to usurp his power. He ain't gonna pleased.
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i literally just shit my pants with rage
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  #30  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:07 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
Both the Horde and Alliance are victims of the Scourge. To claim otherwise is dishonest.
But Erthad I can't negotiate with Fojar's terrorist demands. I have to be completely uncompromising and determined.

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Do I look like the kind of guy who follows Mists' Varian?
Varian Wrynn is the best character in the whole game. I don't know how he got kidnapped. As soon as he returned though all the Alliance's problems were solved. He really transformed the faction.
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  #31  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:11 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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I didn't like Varian at first, but he grew on me after a while. That episode with Saurfang's son did a lot to win me over.

I don't like the way he's becoming High King of the Alliance, but I blame that more on the storytelling strategies (simplification and essentialism) rather than on Varian per se.
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  #32  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:26 PM
Mshadowz Mshadowz is offline

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Blizzard is the worst at listening to feedback, and the wow community is the worst at giving feedback.

What the Aliance says: "BFJHSADFUCKHDCBHORDEMCOCKHOLES!"

What they mean: "Please give our stories the same attention and care you give the Horde's stories, thank you."

What Blizzard reads: "Give us Varian Wrynn and Anduin and we will be happy."
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  #33  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:46 PM
Galka Galka is offline

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Originally Posted by Mshadowz View Post
Blizzard is the worst at listening to feedback, and the wow community is the worst at giving feedback.

What the Aliance says: "BFJHSADFUCKHDCBHORDEMCOCKHOLES!"

What they mean: "Please give our stories the same attention and care you give the Horde's stories, thank you."

What Blizzard reads: "Give us Varian Wrynn and Anduin and we will be happy."

What Blizzard then thinks:
"Okay, we'll ruin the Alliance's story too with the Wrynns if they want it, because we've been doing our best to make the Horde hate their own faction and story for two expansions."

Be careful what you ask for, man. As others have stated, Blizzard is definitely giving the Horde more attention, but an abusive husband beating his wife would never be considered good attention.
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  #34  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:48 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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No you see that wouldn't work because it would make Horde players feel bad.

You just want the Horde to be eliminated from the game!
We already feel bad you horse's ass.
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  #35  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:56 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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God, I really am not looking forward to the forums during WoD... I was hoping for some positive shit..
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  #36  
Old 01-20-2014, 09:54 PM
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God, I really am not looking forward to the forums during WoD... I was hoping for some positive shit..
At the end of the day, positive shit is still shit all the same.
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  #37  
Old 01-20-2014, 11:48 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
They are. Nerzhul sold out the orcs and the Scourge destroyed Lordaeron and Quel'thalas.
Ner'zhul was bad from the start.

Lordaeron, Dalaran, and Gilneas were all Alliance nations destroyed as a direct consequence of the Scourge. Quel'thalas wasn't even destroyed, it was sacked but it's still around.

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
A concise explanation of the Scourge storyline:

One day in the Alliance kingdom that was the Alliance seat of power, an Alliance prince who was the son of the founder of the Alliance was sent with an Alliance Paladin and an Alliance Mage to investigate a mysterious plague that had been unleashed in Alliance population centres. Shit got fucked and tons of Alliance civilians died. Eventually this Alliance Prince led an Alliance force to Northrend but he became corrupted and returned to Alliance territory, killing the head and founder of the Alliance and massacring an entire continents worth of Alliance citizens in addition to annihilating most of the Alliance's industrial base. The Alliance refugees from this event founded Theramore and made Stormwind a superpower.

Eventually this corrupted Alliance prince, in order to resurrect his main ally who is a corrupted Alliance mage, corrupted the Sunwell. He had to kill a bunch of Elves to do it but didn't really give that much of a fuck about that, considering it incidental to his larger war against the Alliance.

Eventually the brother/close friend of two major Alliance characters attacked the Frozen Throne, causing the corrupted Alliance Prince to go to Northrend and put on the Lich King armor. He killed the other presence in the armor making this corrupted Alliance Prince the sole Lich King.

Then WotLK happened. This corrupted Alliance prince personally greeted Alliance characters in Howling Fjord and Borean Tundra, and sent his most powerful forces to lay siege to their bases all throughout Northrend. He interacts with the Horde once and tells them to piss off because he doesn't care about them. The Forsaken spend all their time killing humans.

Then the Wrathgate happens and after the Alliance leader gives an Alliance centric speech to the corrupted Alliance Prince about how he is a traitor to the Alliance, the Forsaken kill undead for the first time in the entire expansion except it turns out they actually didn't mean to. The Horde ceases to be relevant at all at this point in the expansion.

When the time comes to attack ICC it is lead by the corrupted Alliance Princes childhood friend who as it happens is the most powerful figure in the Alliance now, the Alliance Princes childhood mentor and prince of the Alliance kingdom of Ironforge, and the Alliance Princes former lover who is now leader of the Alliance nation of Theramore. The Hordes only role in the entire conclusion is trying to shoot down the Alliance ship and failing. Eventually a former Alliance Paladin uses a blade forged by the Alliance from a piece of an Alliance deity and named after a notable Alliance Paladin to help the Alliance raid defeat the corrupted Alliance prince with the assistance of the ghost of the founder of the Alliance. After the corrupted Alliance Prince is killed another Alliance Paladin is made the new Lich King, concluding the Scourge narrative for the time being.

Truly a Horde-centric narrative.
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You are right Fojar.
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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.

Last edited by Fojar; 01-20-2014 at 11:56 PM..
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  #38  
Old 01-21-2014, 12:24 AM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by Thunderbraid View Post
Anyone who claims Blizzard does not favour the Horde over the Alliance in terms of attention given to story are missing a few brain cells.

Whether this is an -issue- or not is another matter, because the Horde's story has suffered from attention just the same as Night Elf story has.
Uh, were we playing the same game?

The Alliance got the lions share of development prior to Cataclysm balancing everything, game and story wise.
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  #39  
Old 01-21-2014, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Ner'zhul was bad from the start.

Lordaeron, Dalaran, and Gilneas were all Alliance nations destroyed as a direct consequence of the Scourge. Quel'thalas wasn't even destroyed, it was sacked but it's still around.
Gilneas was not destroyed as a direct consequence of the Scourge. Gilneas was only temporarily besieged by the Scourge. What weakened Gilneas was less the Scourge, and more the conflicts that followed (Northgate Rebellion, Wolf Cult, the Shattering, Forsaken). Likewise, Dalaran was sacked, but it's still around. It was even "still around" as far back as the Frozen Throne. Quel'thalas still has the Scar, and it's Ghostlands are in roughly the same state the Plaguelands of Lordaeron.
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  #40  
Old 01-21-2014, 01:05 AM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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The Worgen were summoned to deal with the Scourge. That's a direct consequence.

Dalaran wasn't "still around" in TFT. The Alliance military had reclaimed the ruins, but the city wouldn't recover until WotLK.

The Ghostlands are nowhere near as bad as the Plaguelands. The Plaguelands are so badly contaminated that the place has effectively been terraformed.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #41  
Old 01-21-2014, 02:20 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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The Worgen were summoned to deal with the Scourge. That's a direct consequence.
That's indirect. Direct would be the Scourge destroying Gilneas. The worgen summoned to deal with the Scourge (i.e. Third War) did not spell the doom of Gilneas until almost ten years later, after they formed a Wolf Cult composed of Gilnean citizens and made an alliance with the Forsaken, only after being preceded by a civil war. And the worgen were summoned by Arugal on orders of King Genn Greymane, and his actions had unforeseen consequences. The fall of Gilneas was partially an unintended long-term result of King Genn's orders. The fall of their kingdom is therefore just about as indirectly related to the Scourge as you can get.

Quote:
Dalaran wasn't "still around" in TFT. The Alliance military had reclaimed the ruins, but the city wouldn't recover until WotLK.
We do not know when exactly Dalaran recovered. We only know that they teleported their fully-rebuilt city in WotLK. But yeah, it's still much like Silvermoon. The blood elves reclaimed the ruins and half the city, except the city still has not recovered.

Quote:
The Ghostlands are nowhere near as bad as the Plaguelands. The Plaguelands are so badly contaminated that the place has effectively been terraformed.
The Scar. Also, only the Eastern Plaguelands were as you described. The Western Plaguelands? Not so much. Tirisfal Glades? Not so much either.
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  #42  
Old 01-21-2014, 02:30 AM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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That's indirect. Direct would be the Scourge destroying Gilneas. The worgen summoned to deal with the Scourge (i.e. Third War) did not spell the doom of Gilneas until almost ten years later, after they formed a Wolf Cult composed of Gilnean citizens and made an alliance with the Forsaken, only after being preceded by a civil war. And the worgen were summoned by Arugal on orders of King Genn Greymane, and his actions had unforeseen consequences. The fall of Gilneas was partially an unintended long-term result of King Genn's orders. The fall of their kingdom is therefore just about as indirectly related to the Scourge as you can get.
The Worgen being there at all was a result of the Scourge, and the presence of the Forsaken, an offshoot of the Scourge, is what initiated its fall. No Scourge, no fallen Gilneas. This is not disputable.

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We do not know when exactly Dalaran recovered. We only know that they teleported their fully-rebuilt city in WotLK.
It recovered when it didn't need a giant bubble-shield that prevented anyone from entering.

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The Scar. Also, only the Eastern Plaguelands were as you described. The Western Plaguelands? Not so much. Tirisfal Glades? Not so much either.
The Dead Scar is not as bad as the Plaguelands. At worst the dead scar is ugly, and we don't know if druidic magic can't heal it like in WPL.

In the Plaguelands the very air and soil were toxic and the entire region including Tirisfal seem to have been subjected to some sort of curse or taint that radically altered the region, causing the trees to mutate and the atmosphere to let less light through.

The Dead Scar isn't shit compared to that.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #43  
Old 01-21-2014, 02:35 AM
Lutinz Lutinz is offline

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This is something that has been in my mind in my five years of playing World of Warcraft. From a lore, and other aspects, do you think Blizzard shows favoritism towards one faction. I was watching a video on King Varian Wrynn (Alliance fan boy here) and some points are made in the video. If you want you can see the video, and why I think that Blizzard, at least from a story standpoint favors the Horde. Here is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MSpvZ-MJRA

It's a great video, feel free to watch the whole thing but if you want to see the points that I view then skip to 45:50

What is your opinion on the issue?
Don't you have a thread with this exact OP opened on MMO champions forums, Phenox?

I'm kind of wondering if your trolling, trying to spark flame wars.
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  #44  
Old 01-21-2014, 02:47 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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I always held the belief that faction favouritism from the side of Blizzard does not exist, and it is purely their poor writing skills that ruined the Alliance's story, and the Horde's as well.
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  #45  
Old 01-21-2014, 03:04 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Fojar, I'm moving our discussion to where it's actually relevant.
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  #46  
Old 01-21-2014, 03:54 AM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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Uh, were we playing the same game?

The Alliance got the lions share of development prior to Cataclysm balancing everything, game and story wise.
Both you and I shouldn't give a toss about gameplay when posting in the lore section of the Scrolls of Lore forums.

I shouldn't need to bold the relevant words, but it's sad I feel the need to.
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  #47  
Old 01-21-2014, 04:21 AM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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God, I really am not looking forward to the forums during WoD... I was hoping for some positive shit..
I feel you bro.
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  #48  
Old 01-21-2014, 04:22 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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I feel you bro.
Does it count as positive if I get to be happy at the fact we killed all of the Chieftans but Durotan?
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #49  
Old 01-21-2014, 04:30 AM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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Does it count as positive if I get to be happy at the fact we killed all of the Chieftans but Durotan?
Uh... I think so?
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  #50  
Old 01-21-2014, 04:35 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Uh... I think so?
But it's happiness at the expense of all the people who wanted to see actual development and character of the Orcish Chieftans! The ones who hoped that the Orcs would get some sort of development other than "Damn, our past selves were assholes too."!

How could you be so insensitive Jungle?

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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