Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Lore Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-29-2017, 12:49 AM
Almed Almed is offline

Banished
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 314

Default Looking back, is Warcraft 3 put on a bit of a pedestal?

I know we all dig the game here. But after doing some thinking, I'm wondering if not only could the game have been better done but that it also enabled at least some of the issues in the plots and setting.

First off, there's how Medivh not only died and come back to life with no apparent drawback or warping but how his role in the game could be abridged as him being a ranting hobo who only Metzen's pets (Thrall and Malfurion) and Jaina listen to.

Secondly, there's TFT Blood Elf Campaign and the forced way made the Blood Elves hostile to the Alliance alongside the Orc Campaign with strawman Daelin. Garithos is a mustache twirler who seeks to genocide the Blood Elves during the zombie invasion, but doesn't have any background for his stance whatsoever (ignoring later post-WC3 lore). The Orc Campaign has Jaina help commit patricide and allow the Horde to rampage through Theramore with Daelin shown as big of a strawmen as he can be (complete with having his daughter seized by his troops).

Lastly, as neat as the Blood of Mannoroth was for the Lore back then. I wonder if hasn't ended up doing damage in the end. I can get into this more if you ask.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-29-2017, 01:38 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

Echo of the Past
BaronGrackle's Avatar
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 15,162

Default

Be it known that I did not start this thread.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-29-2017, 01:41 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,977

Default

Retrospectively, Warcraft III suffered from two particular things;

1) The lore of many things had been altered to accommodate for World of Warcraft, as these two games were developed in tandem, and certain design decisions made for World of Warcraft had an immediate effect on Warcraft III (the forest trolls turned from the allies of the Horde into creeps, so they could be used as enemies in World of Warcraft to make Lordaeron less monotonous, Stratholme moved away from Darrowmere because of the scale, etc).

2) As almost every single Blizzard game, Warcraft III had suffered many, many cuts during its development, some rather counterproductive retrospectively. The key difference between it and say Warlords of Draenor is only that even after all those cuts, it remained relatively compact.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-29-2017, 06:20 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,691
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Default

Yes it is.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-29-2017, 06:43 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

Problemsolver
Aneurysm's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Here, there, and everywhere.
Posts: 9,315

Default

I think what WCIII did was to continue broadening the scope of the setting after WCII and its expansion (WCII took a step from WC's sort of strict dark v. light fantasy setting a lá Diablo into a more free high fantansy setting mixed with some technopunk, and then WCIII expanded on those ideas), making the story more accessible to a wider audience and more easily digestible. Did it suffer quality while gaining quantity? Maybe. But if so I'm not so sure it was done excessively. It's not like the two previous installments were without flaws.

I think the issue is rather the franchise as a whole being on a pedestal. Warcraft has never been a brilliant piece of writing in terms of story and consistency.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-29-2017, 07:23 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

Elune
C9H20's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,213

Default

WC3 should perhaps not be put on a pedestal but comparing it to WoW is like comparing Tolstoy with Uve Boll.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-29-2017, 07:38 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,691
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
WC3 should perhaps not be put on a pedestal but comparing it to WoW is like comparing Tolstoy with Uve Boll.
I have no idea what any of that means.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-29-2017, 08:06 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

Arch-Druid
Asterisk's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: The Lanes Between
Posts: 1,412

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneurysm View Post
I think the issue is rather the franchise as a whole being on a pedestal. Warcraft has never been a brilliant piece of writing in terms of story and consistency.
This.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-29-2017, 09:03 AM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

Eternal
Royalpimp's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,569

Default

To a certain extent, pretty much like anything that's considered of quality at any point of time. Personally I think it gave the setting it's charm and still holds up very well even today if you don't count WoW lore messing with it, even if it's not as groundbreaking as some might think.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
And Lordaeron

ffs I'm the only one who cares aren't I
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
And that is the Drama to being part of the Horde. There are people out there who want you dead. You honestly can’t blame them. Do you lie down and die for them? No. You enjoy the challenge. You keep your head up and move forward.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-29-2017, 09:10 AM
Hagrid Hagrid is offline

Keeper of the Grove
Hagrid's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 681

Default

This is now a Warcraft 2 thread!

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-29-2017, 03:38 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

Not Sure If Trolling...
Slowpokeking's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,026

Default

Nobody said it was perfect, there were some bad retcons like Lothar's death as well. But overall it's the best part of the WC lore, especially RoC. The villains were very cunning and manipulative, it's not black and white as well. Also WC1 and WC2 doesn't even have a real canon ending, it also lacks of lore compare to WC3. All the characters were at least consistent as well.

I don't see any problem with Daelin at all. He fought in the 2nd War and lost his son, it makes a lot of sense for him to hate the orcs. You can disagree with him but his character was coherent.

Garithos could have been expanded a bit more, I agree.
__________________

Last edited by Slowpokeking; 08-29-2017 at 03:40 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-29-2017, 06:59 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

Echo of the Past
BaronGrackle's Avatar
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 15,162

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Also WC1 and WC2 doesn't even have a real canon ending,
Sylvanas can easily survive the Scourge campaign. :p

https://forums.spacebattles.com/thre...252728/page-20

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 08-29-2017 at 07:03 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-29-2017, 07:23 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

Not Sure If Trolling...
Slowpokeking's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,026

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Sylvanas can easily survive the Scourge campaign. :p

https://forums.spacebattles.com/thre...252728/page-20
Where is it, photobucket broke all the links.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-29-2017, 07:39 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

Echo of the Past
BaronGrackle's Avatar
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 15,162

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Where is it, photobucket broke all the links.
Killing her is an Optional Quest
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-29-2017, 08:42 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

Not Sure If Trolling...
Slowpokeking's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,026

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Killing her is an Optional Quest
But it didn't have 2nd option like spare her or let her run off.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-29-2017, 11:47 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

Echo of the Past
BaronGrackle's Avatar
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 15,162

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
But it didn't have 2nd option like spare her or let her run off.
The scene where Arthas kills her doesn't happen if you choose not to do the Optional Quest. She never dies in RoC if you go that route.

So yes, it's a second option.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-03-2017, 09:45 PM
Yoy Yoy is offline

Glaive Thrower
Yoy's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 69

Panda

Warcraft III is put on a pedestal because it's a better game for a lot of people.

Medivh is supposed to be mysterious, and if everyone listened to him there wouldn't be much of a story. We don't need to know exactly why Garithos is a jerk just like we don't need to know why Jabba the Hutt is a jerk. Warcraft 1-3 is full of brutality, and desperate decisions. Jaina did what she needed to protect her people. As far as the Blood Of Mannoroth stuff goes you shouldn't judge Warcraft 3's storytelling quality by whatever World Of Warcraft or some book does with the lore it set up.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-03-2017, 09:48 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

Echo of the Past
BaronGrackle's Avatar
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 15,162

Default

I love the tech tree but feel some units weren't showcased enough in the story campaigns. Too many of them showed up for only a single level, or no levels at all.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-04-2017, 06:36 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

Elune
Lon-ami's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 12,550
BattleTag: Lonami#2916

Default

It was a really good game. Lot of models, neutral enemies, and a pretty good world editor. The story and the lore were pretty decent as well, and the characters were developed very well.

In retrospective, SC2 was a failure because it missed all of those points above.
__________________


Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter)

~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
critical thinking, warcraft 3

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.