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  #326  
Old 09-27-2017, 03:31 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Speaking of bulls, what happened to those bovine humanoids the eredar used to hunt on Argus? I'd like to have seen some, even if they were undead or fel-corrupted.
Were they humanoids? I just assumed it was just some bovine animal that went extinct or was intentionally wiped out.
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  #327  
Old 09-28-2017, 01:07 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Were they humanoids? I just assumed it was just some bovine animal that went extinct or was intentionally wiped out.
Kuros calls them "beasts" and just says that they were "like" the tauren. He never describes them as humanoids.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Neme...nted_(Alliance)

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On Argus, we hunted powerful horned beasts like your tauren for sport. Prove your might over this worthy adversary!
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  #328  
Old 10-04-2017, 03:30 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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What is the function and origin of the Alliance's recent position of 'High King' - and isn't the role of a supreme hereditary leader antithetical to the Alliance's core principles of being a free association between independent states?

And if the role of High King is purely a military one; why wasn't that position named the Supreme Allied Commander as it had been historically under Lothar?
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  #329  
Old 10-04-2017, 04:06 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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It's more of a loose end than an inconsistency, but where the heck did the Pearl of Pandaria come from?
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  #330  
Old 10-04-2017, 05:21 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
What is the function and origin of the Alliance's recent position of 'High King' - and isn't the role of a supreme hereditary leader antithetical to the Alliance's core principles of being a free association between independent states?

And if the role of High King is purely a military one; why wasn't that position named the Supreme Allied Commander as it had been historically under Lothar?
Good question. It is almost like it was a dumb idea.
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  #331  
Old 10-05-2017, 05:41 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
What is the function and origin of the Alliance's recent position of 'High King' - and isn't the role of a supreme hereditary leader antithetical to the Alliance's core principles of being a free association between independent states?

And if the role of High King is purely a military one; why wasn't that position named the Supreme Allied Commander as it had been historically under Lothar?
I prefer the term "Supreme Commander", which I think appears in more sources.

"Supreme Allied Commander" irks me more for being a real-life term to describe the Allies of WWII, with the adjective "Allied" never appearing anywhere in Warcraft to describe Alliance forces.
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  #332  
Old 10-05-2017, 07:43 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
What is the function and origin of the Alliance's recent position of 'High King' - and isn't the role of a supreme hereditary leader antithetical to the Alliance's core principles of being a free association between independent states?

And if the role of High King is purely a military one; why wasn't that position named the Supreme Allied Commander as it had been historically under Lothar?
Why do you always bring back the dead horse after we’ve already beaten it?
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  #333  
Old 10-05-2017, 11:13 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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Another small ambiguity - did Warchief Thrall really withdraw Horde support for the Ulduar expedition against Yogg-Saron because Garrosh and Varian had a public brawl in Dalaran?
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  #334  
Old 10-05-2017, 11:33 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
Another small ambiguity - did Warchief Thrall really withdraw Horde support for the Ulduar expedition against Yogg-Saron because Garrosh and Varian had a public brawl in Dalaran?
The way I understood it, while Thrall would have wanted to support the Ulduar Expedition, he gave his local commander, Garrosh, free rein so that he could learn how to lead, the consequences be damned.
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  #335  
Old 10-07-2017, 04:43 PM
SomeRandomEvilGuy SomeRandomEvilGuy is offline

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The way I understood it, while Thrall would have wanted to support the Ulduar Expedition, he gave his local commander, Garrosh, free rein so that he could learn how to lead, the consequences be damned.
Man, Thrall was really bad at delegating.
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  #336  
Old 10-11-2017, 08:44 AM
Darkphoenix Darkphoenix is offline

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There are infinite timelines. Some are just a fraction different then the prime timeline we play in, some are radically different, and others are in-between both of the mentioned extremes.

In many of the countless timelines that are similar to our own, Draenor would of become Outland, and, as a result of the process of doing so, shifted into the Twisting Nether: the single, meta reality that exists above ALL.

This must mean that there are COUNTLESS Outlands in existence in the Twisting Nether.

Makes the place a little less special...
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  #337  
Old 10-11-2017, 09:41 AM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
There are infinite timelines. Some are just a fraction different then the prime timeline we play in, some are radically different, and others are in-between both of the mentioned extremes.

In many of the countless timelines that are similar to our own, Draenor would of become Outland, and, as a result of the process of doing so, shifted into the Twisting Nether: the single, meta reality that exists above ALL.

This must mean that there are COUNTLESS Outlands in existence in the Twisting Nether.

Makes the place a little less special...
I loathe the idea of a Single Twisting Nether/Legion for all of the divergent timelines, and pretend it never happened. So don't even get me started there.

However, the premise doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion you reached (infinite Outlands). For one, you could say that divergent versions "merge" on the Nether. As such, the countless Archimondes who accepted Sargeras offer would make up only one Archimonde the Defiler, not an endless number of them. So, the countless Outlands would become a single Outland.

But we don't need to go that far down the rabbit hole. Alternate timelines in WoW don't seem to be self-sustaining alternate universes like in, say, Marvel Comics. The timeline we are in is the One True Timeline. All the other ones are inherently unstable anomalies that unravel shortly after appearing. WoD-timeline is stable because of Vision of Time shenanigans, otherwise it wouldn't keep existing.

So, there are only two Draenors that matter, and one of them never exploded, which is why we don't have more than one Outland.

That second explanation also justifies why we don't see, say, a Betrayer!Malfurion or Legion!Aldrachi - any timeline where these people became demons is too unstable to leave lasting effects on the Nether.

Last edited by Patrick_C; 10-11-2017 at 11:07 AM..
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  #338  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:29 AM
Darkphoenix Darkphoenix is offline

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Originally Posted by Patrick_C View Post
I loathe the idea of a Single Twisting Nether/Legion for all of the divergent timelines, and pretend it never happened. So don't even get me started there.

However, the premise doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion you reached (infinite Outlands). For one, you could say that divergent versions "merge" on the Nether. As such, the countless Archimondes who accepted Sargeras offer would make up only one Archimonde the Defiler, not an endless number of them. So, the countless Outlands would become a single Outland.

But we don't need to go that far down the rabbit hole. Alternate timelines in WoW don't seem to be self-sustaining alternate universes like in, say, Marvel Comics. The Timeline we are in is the One True Timeline. All the other ones are inherently unstable anomalies that unravel shortly before appearing. WoD-timeline is stable because of Vision of Time shenanigans, otherwise it wouldn't keep existing.

So, there are only two Draenors that matter, and one of them never exploded, which is why we don't have more than one Outland.

That second explanation also justifies why we don't see, say, a Betrayer!Malfurion or Legion!Aldrachi - any timeline where these people became demons is too unstable to leave lasting effects on the Nether.
I like the idea of the alternate timelines Outlands becoming 'overridden' by the prime's Outland upon shifting into the Twisting Nether. It's neat. However, to my knowledge, we've nothing to suggest that that's what happens. Makes for an acceptable headcanon, though.

As for alternate timelines being inherently unstable, this seemed to be the case, particularly when you read Christie Golden's "Twilight of Aspects" novel, however, retroactively, Blizzard have said that the Arthas-is-king reality didn't actually implode; despite the contrary being strongly suggested. This seemed to confuse the instability thing for me; but that's a slight tangent...

I'd say that, despite us both not liking it, once an alternate timeline's Outland shifts into the overarching Twisting Nether, it's no longer subject to the instability of its timeline because its no longer its property; its the Twisting Nether's.
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I hope you get raped harder than an African woman during ethnic cleansing
- Noitora, "A Couple of Illidan Spoilers" Thread (Pg. 17; Post #339)
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  #339  
Old 10-11-2017, 02:01 PM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
As for alternate timelines being inherently unstable, this seemed to be the case, particularly when you read Christie Golden's "Twilight of Aspects" novel, however, retroactively, Blizzard have said that the Arthas-is-king reality didn't actually implode; despite the contrary being strongly suggested. This seemed to confuse the instability thing for me; but that's a slight tangent...
Oh. Did they, now?

That ruins EVERYTHING.

[Insert MST3K Mantra here]

The only thing that made the "One Single Twisting Nether/Legion" be acceptable to me was the fact that alternate universes were unstable. Otherwise, as you well noted, the Twisting Nether should be choking on Archimondes and Kil'Jaedens and maybe even Evil!Velens.

If they make alternate timelines stable and keep the single Nether idea, we have a problem.

(also, alternate timelines being stable kinda makes the Bronze Dragonflight and Aman'thul look stupid and/or narrow-minded in their insistence on a One True Timeline.)

Well, Blizzard could still get themselves out of this particular conundrum if they said that, while the particular scene in Twilight of the Aspects didn't describe the AU being destroyed (As per Christie Golden's Tweet), it would eventually implode down the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
I like the idea of the alternate timelines Outlands becoming 'overridden' by the prime's Outland upon shifting into the Twisting Nether. It's neat. However, to my knowledge, we've nothing to suggest that that's what happens. Makes for an acceptable headcanon, though.
The absence of a horde of Archimondes and Kil'Jaedens and Illidans kicking about in the Netehr could be invoked as evidences of this theory. If there are stable AUs, if the Nether is indeed unified, we should have a veritable army composed solely of these three characters. Since we don't have, either their alternate selves get subsumed into a single Fel being in the Nether or the AUs are unstable and unable to affect the Nether in any way.

Notice that we can't even say "Main Universe Archimonde was the only one to go Legion, all the others stayed pure", since the King Aedelas AU seen in Twilight of the Aspects implies that everything else was the same up to that point - i. e., there was an Archimonde the Defiler somewhere.

Sigh.

I wish Blizzard never came up with the One Nether bullshit.
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  #340  
Old 10-11-2017, 03:24 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
As for alternate timelines being inherently unstable, this seemed to be the case, particularly when you read Christie Golden's "Twilight of Aspects" novel, however, retroactively, Blizzard have said that the Arthas-is-king reality didn't actually implode; despite the contrary being strongly suggested. This seemed to confuse the instability thing for me; but that's a slight tangent...

I'd say that, despite us both not liking it, once an alternate timeline's Outland shifts into the overarching Twisting Nether, it's no longer subject to the instability of its timeline because its no longer its property; its the Twisting Nether's.
Then again, it was only said that it still exists. Not in what form and context. Given the nature of time travel that doesn't necessarily mean it persisted until now by continuing into the present parallel to our own timeline.

One may be able to visit that timeline again, but not necessarily a present-day continuation of it. You might have to travel backward to go there, and figure on leaving again before it falls apart.
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