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  #251  
Old 03-21-2018, 03:48 PM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

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Originally Posted by Cacofonix View Post
->The Undead have a history of being filthy beasts who can't be trusted around Humanity and other non-dead stuff
->Forsaken proceed to rampage on their neighbors

How could Thrall have possibly seen that coming?
So you can't provide any proof and are repeating the same shit hoping it will stick. What the Forsaken did after joining the Horde takes place in the future relative to their joining. Stop bringing it up like it's some available info anybody would know at the time.
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You're telling me there's nothing suspicious about an army falling of the face of the earth and now a bunch of talking corpses are squatting in Human land?
I am telling you they didn't know about it. Consider the fact that army could have been wiped out by other people, and the said corpses are squatting in the very land they were killed and resurrected in.
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Thrall named Varimathas soon after Wrathgate in such a way that he knew he was in the Horde.
This is fucking pathetic. You couldn't have been assed to provide your own proof so you are poaching ARM's. It's not a perfect counter point either, Thrall's use of words doesn't contradict the fact he could have found out that day.
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That's called being an enabler.
Calling it as it is.
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Sure they did. You know that WoW didn't start out with its faction system, right? Among other changes.
Two things man. One, I don't give a fuck what you think WoW started with. Second, Forsaken joining the Horde has nothing to do with the faction system. The game doesn't need a faction system for the Horde to exist, nor does it need a faction system for them to recruit the Forsaken.
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If the Forsaken really are Lordaeron's reanimated citizens and not just monsters wearing their flesh that Sylvanas controls then they shouldn't be enthusiastic about joining greenskins to slaughter their neighbors. Argent Crusade or not, a bunch of Humans saying mean words about them shouldn't override a little thing like being largely Undead Humans with traditions they would have shared in life with other Humans (see the Forsaken's religion from all evidence being a spookier version of what was done in Lordaeron). And Humans stick to what's more like them, not to the foreign.
There is no if, there is just is. TFT made it quite clear, so did many quests in WoW. The Forsaken are reanimated citizens of Lordaeron, not some outside force that came in. If you are going to try and argue this then you aren't worth anybody's time.
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I'm failing to see the drive to engage in geopolitics with the Alliance.
I don't care. The point is Thrall didn't "want nothing to do with humanity." That's your own interpretation.
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  #252  
Old 03-21-2018, 05:17 PM
Falarson Falarson is offline

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Originally Posted by Vineyard View Post
Technically, he could have been mutated/empowered, when he performed the Ritual to free C'Thun. (Which lead to the AQ War.)

The Ritual unleashed lots of energy, which killed most of the cultists, who have taken part. (The Rest became catatonic and was abandoned by Cho'gall in the desert.)
His WoD model is exactly like his Cata model, sans Rend and Maim's scar. He's probably being retconned as being Void-corrupted far back in Draenor.
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  #253  
Old 03-22-2018, 02:42 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Originally Posted by Falarson View Post
His WoD model is exactly like his Cata model, sans Rend and Maim's scar. He's probably being retconned as being Void-corrupted far back in Draenor.
Actually, it's the other way around: Cho'gall's WoD model does have the X-shaped scar (which makes no sense), but doesn't have any of the Old God-induced extra eyeballs seen on his Cata model. He does have the rocky spikes, though.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/File:Cho%27gall.jpg
https://wow.gamepedia.com/File:Cho%27gall_WoD.jpg

In Chronicle Volume 2, on the other hand, he's depicted without any mutations at all (neither spikes nor eyeballs) and instead looks more like his Heroes of the Storm model.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/File:Chron...ow_Council.jpg
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  #254  
Old 03-22-2018, 04:15 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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*Shrug*

AU.

But as said, I think MU Cho'gall got mutated during the Freeing C'Thun Ritual, simply because he was the one one who got out of it "unharmed".

It's actually funny that he is responsable for most of our problems with the Old Gods in the expansions, except N'Zoth.

So.....

Any more questions?
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  #255  
Old 03-22-2018, 04:36 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Vineyard View Post
But as said, I think MU Cho'gall got mutated during the Freeing C'Thun Ritual, simply because he was the one one who got out of it "unharmed".
Had the same vibe from it, especially since he was the only survivor of the ritual.

-----

I'd also mention that when it comes to alternate timelines, Chronicle says everything starts as a possibility that usually never materializes, described as "creeks that diverge from the main river only to die off". Moreover, each timeway (that's what it's all called) has its own set of events (ie timeline), and if you changed it, it would unravel, which is exactly what the Infinites were trying to do with the main one.

-----

Are you going to share any art or a list of it? I was pretty much against it on Discord, but I guess at this point...

Last edited by Marthen; 03-22-2018 at 06:07 AM..
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  #256  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:52 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Bit difficult to share anything, since I don't want to damage the book.

Most of the significant art got shared anyway in the previews.

My personal favorite piece, that wasn't in the previews, is Worgen Greymane standing over the body of his dying son, with Sylvanas fleeing in the background.

Oh, and one funny thing.:

The Post Cataclysm World Map isn't that different from the we know, besides the damages done to certain zones and the Azsharas Horde Shape.

As for Vash'ir: It actually got scaled down quite heavily on the World Map.

The Upper Part is a bit above the West of Dun Morogh in the Ingame Map.

In the Chronicle Map, the Upper Part actually starts west of the Lower Part of Dun Morogh and ends west of Stormwind, just like in the Ingame Map. (Just to give you a feel how the Zone got scaled down.)

Last edited by Vineyard; 03-22-2018 at 06:31 AM..
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  #257  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:05 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Vineyard View Post
My personal favorite piece, that wasn't i nthe previews, is Worgen Greymane standing over the body of his dying son, with Sylvanas feeling in the background.
Yeah, I really like that one, already teased it on Discord. I also like those few Third War/TFT ones not shown in the previews yet. I also like the Light's Hope one.

Last edited by Marthen; 03-22-2018 at 06:11 AM..
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  #258  
Old 03-22-2018, 09:56 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Any more questions?
I know Matt Burns already tweeted that the book wouldn't really touch on it, but is there any mention at all of how the night elves joined the Alliance between WC3 and vanilla WoW?
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  #259  
Old 03-22-2018, 10:23 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Pepe Stormstout View Post
I know Matt Burns already tweeted that the book wouldn't really touch on it, but is there any mention at all of how the night elves joined the Alliance between WC3 and vanilla WoW?
It's not said explicitly like with the Forsaken, but the circumstances provided in the text make it rather clear.

After the Third War, they are in a very precarious position. Their ancestral lands are ravaged (the woodlands of Hyjal are scorched post battle at Hyjal's summit), Nordrassil is badly damaged, their natural allies are hidden and scattered (mostly has to do with Cenarius' death and the state of Hyjal), they are reeling from a culture shock caused by the loss of immortality and immunity to diseases etc, and on top of that, the Horde establishes its nations south of their lands, with conflicts like Warsong Gulch in place.
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  #260  
Old 03-22-2018, 10:45 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Vineyard View Post
P.132 has an interesting note about Alternate Timelines.

Only the Main Timeline is stable. All other Timelines, if left alone, will eventually dissipate into nothing.

However, if an effort is made to preserve or alter an Alternate Timeline, it can remain in existance indefinetly.
That's interesting. It's close to a theory I made during WoD, that alternate timelines are unstable, and the move they deviate from the "real" timeline, the quicker they dissipate. During WoD, I was hoping they'd explain that Draenor was "pulled" from its timeline and made stable, so the rest of that universe vanishes and Draenor is just "transported" into our universe to replace the lost one (which is in the Nether as Outland).
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  #261  
Old 03-22-2018, 12:03 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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@Deicide: It could actually be similar of what you thought.

To quote a paragraph from the note.

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They can even be made to feed back into the main river - dead creatures can seemingly "live again", and the past (or future) can literally come back to haunt you. This is not a natural phenomenon, and the inhabitants of the main timeway will often find this experiences to be quite alarming.
Also, this note names "Timeway Corruption", was part of the "The Unraveling of Time" Paragraph, which discribes the events of the "War of the Ancients" Trilogy by Knaak. (Something tries to change the past and Nozdormu sends Rhonin, Krasus snd Broxigar back into the past to preserve that history unfolds as it should.)

But Back to Dreanor/Outland:

AU Draenor being "stablized" by being connected to MU Azeroth via the Dark Portal/Vision of Time Shard Connection could theoreticly mean that it actually might have taken the place where MU Dreanor has orginally been.

This wouldn't mean that Outland would be "gone", since the destruction of MU Dreanor catapulted it remains into the Twisting Nether.

Last edited by Vineyard; 03-22-2018 at 12:30 PM..
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  #262  
Old 03-22-2018, 12:40 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Vineyard View Post
But Back to Dreanor/Outland:

AU Draenor being "stablized" by being connected to MU Azeroth via the Dark Portal/Vision of Time Shard Connection could theoreticly mean that it actually might have taken the place where MU Dreanor has orginally been.

This wouldn't mean that Outland would be "gone", since the destruction of MU Dreanor catapulted it remains into the Twisting Nether.
Yeah, I'd like to have confirmation that AU!Draenor was pulled into our universe, because it would clean up a lot of the mess WoD left out.

It would mean that there's just Draenor, the rest of the Alternate Universe is gone. So, no AU!Medivh, AU!Azeroth, AU!Cosmic Theats, AU!Naaru (that weren't in Draenor) would exist. Only what was in Draenor when it was "dragged" into our universe remains.

It would also allow the "One Legion for all universes" mess to be forgotten. As Draenor, once being in our universe, would be target for our Legion anyway.

While not all messes would be fixed, it would be like patching a open wound to stop the bleeding.
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  #263  
Old 03-22-2018, 12:47 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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So I thought of a neat storyline the mag'har orcs could have, using this info if unstable timelines and stuff:

AU orcs and draenei start arriving on Azeroth and we find out that their world is crumbling. We discover that time anomalies began happening some time after we left. The first thing, and that nobody really noticed at first, was that time was passing much faster in AU Draenor than on Azeroth. What this means is that these orcs are the descendants of the orcs of WoD, and those such as Durotan, Draka and Orgrim are long dead. Then, time bubbles started appearing here and there; in some, time passed much faster, in others, much slower.

The real issue was when the fabric of space and time itself began dissolving, and beings from Draenor's past appeared. Genesaur, magnaron, even colossals and the whispers of the Evergrowth began appearing. In the midst of all the chaos, resources became scarce and conflict erupted between the orc clans and the draenei. In these battles between the races, and against the old Primals and Breakers, leaders such as Exarch Akama and the Vindicator Nobundo perished. This is when the world itself began distabilizing and everyone had enough and sought to migrate to Azeroth.

The Horde gives shelter to the orc clans, while the Alliance brings in the draenei.

The questline itself, however, is only for the Horde, since it brings in a new allied race: the mag'har orcs. Nonetheless, lorewise, the draenei are now boosted in population due to these events.
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  #264  
Old 03-22-2018, 12:54 PM
Azurehax Azurehax is offline

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Is there any Art for the fall of Quel'thalas? It's strange that outside maybe the mangas they haven't depicted that in any media.
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  #265  
Old 03-22-2018, 01:05 PM
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Only one.

Artha's victory over Sylvanas.
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  #266  
Old 03-22-2018, 01:11 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Yeah, I'd like to have confirmation that AU!Draenor was pulled into our universe, because it would clean up a lot of the mess WoD left out.

It would mean that there's just Draenor, the rest of the Alternate Universe is gone. So, no AU!Medivh, AU!Azeroth, AU!Cosmic Theats, AU!Naaru (that weren't in Draenor) would exist. Only what was in Draenor when it was "dragged" into our universe remains.

It would also allow the "One Legion for all universes" mess to be forgotten. As Draenor, once being in our universe, would be target for our Legion anyway.

While not all messes would be fixed, it would be like patching a open wound to stop the bleeding.
That's already not an issue given the way Chronicle describes it (which is funnily enough nearly identical to my old theory; http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...7&postcount=14). As per Chronicle, the main timeway is the only timeway with a pernament effect on the cosmos, all other timeways are merely "the tributaries of the main river". In other words, there's only one cosmos, with one true timeway and one Nether, no other timeways but the main one exist by themselves, they all start as divergencies from the main one. If these divergences, possibilities, are not stabilizied, they end as dead creeks, if they are, they turn alternate timeways, tributaries, although even so, they can eventually die off (or feed back to the main river as that quote says)
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  #267  
Old 03-22-2018, 01:41 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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For what it's worth, here's the full note:

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Timeway Corruption

In all known realms of the cosmos, time flows forward, ever forward. Chaotic energies in places like the Twisting Nether can affect how quickly it flows, but it only flows forward.

Once an event happens, it cannot be changed. These events and choices, made up of all creatures and forces in the cosmos, join together like a river. sharing the same reality. Different choices and different possibilities naturally spin off the river like small creeks and estuaries, ebbing and flowing for a while. If these shades of what could have been are left alone, they will eventually dissipate into nothing. If efforts are made to preserve (or alter them), they can indeed remain in existence indefinetly. They can even be made to feed back into the main river - dead creatures can seemingly "live again", and the past (or future) can literally come back to haunt you. This is not a natural phenomenon, and the inhabitants of the main timeway will often find this experiences to be quite alarming.

But the only timeway that has a permanent effect on the cosmos is the main timeway. Creatures like the bronze dragons, who have command of temporal magic, can see all the countless tributaries of alternate universes and timelines, and they can even move back and forth along the stream to observe the past and the future.

If that main river is disrupted, it could spell doom and disaster. All life on Azeroth depends on time to flow ever forward. Without the surety that the sun will rise and set each day, the seasons would not pass, the cycle of life would become meaningless, and all living creatures would eventually die from being unable sustain themselves. It is the most sacred mission of the bronze dragonflight to keep that from happening.

Last edited by Vineyard; 03-22-2018 at 01:48 PM..
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  #268  
Old 03-22-2018, 02:32 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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@Deicide: It could actually be similar of what you thought.

To quote a paragraph from the note.



Also, this note names "Timeway Corruption", was part of the "The Unraveling of Time" Paragraph, which discribes the events of the "War of the Ancients" Trilogy by Knaak. (Something tries to change the past and Nozdormu sends Rhonin, Krasus snd Broxigar back into the past to preserve that history unfolds as it should.)

But Back to Dreanor/Outland:

AU Draenor being "stablized" by being connected to MU Azeroth via the Dark Portal/Vision of Time Shard Connection could theoreticly mean that it actually might have taken the place where MU Dreanor has orginally been.

This wouldn't mean that Outland would be "gone", since the destruction of MU Dreanor catapulted it remains into the Twisting Nether.
Wouldn't the more likely case be that Outland is still connected, but Azeroth can't use the portal on their side to get there? Do people even know how to use it? It wasn't opened until BC. Why can't mages portal people there, since Khadgar could make one to Azeroth on Draenor?
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  #269  
Old 03-22-2018, 04:35 PM
Azurehax Azurehax is offline

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Only one.

Artha's victory over Sylvanas.
Oooh, excited. Never had that in any media either. Hopefully it's properly tragic.
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  #270  
Old 03-23-2018, 03:41 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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There was one detail I forgot to ask about earlier: does the book have any new information on the San'layn/darkfallen? There's a bit of a debate over on Wowpedia about the meanings of the two terms, with some saying that San'layn is the faction and darkfallen is the race or vice versa.
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  #271  
Old 03-23-2018, 04:11 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Nope, nothing about them.
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  #272  
Old 03-23-2018, 06:48 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Kinda wanna ask more about the faction raids/5mans and zones, but that'll probably spoil the whole book at this rate.

Are there any details on how/why the blood elves joined the Horde? Oh and context on Gallywix still being the leader.
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  #273  
Old 03-23-2018, 09:02 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Are there any details on how/why the blood elves joined the Horde?
That was included in one of the earlier previews.

https://imgur.com/a/1JDsG

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  #274  
Old 03-23-2018, 10:25 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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They also explained how Keal'thas went coo coo.

Short answer:

Fel Magic.

After Illidan tough him to feed on it, he proceeded cautiously, but still became quickly addicted to it. And it had it's toll on his mind and made him paranoid for another reason.

He secretly thought that his people saw him as a failure. Not only was the expetion to Outland a failure, it actually worsend the condition of his people. But he was to pride and ashamed to admit defeat and to return to Quel'thelas.

And than came Kil'jaeden, telling hom that Illidan was withholding hi mthe true powers of Fel Magic. Orginally, Keal refused his offer.

But then happend the Scryers incident, which permanently created a rift between Keal and Illidan, because the later didn't retaliate against the Naaru.
(Simply, because Illidan only focused on training his Demon Hunters)

That made Keal think "Kil'jaeden is right, Illidan doesn't care for my people".
While he new the Legion couldn't be trusted, he was too much addicted to Fell Magic to refuse....
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  #275  
Old 03-25-2018, 02:55 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Anything on Kel'Thuzad, or the Drakkari questline?
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