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Old 10-15-2014, 04:09 AM
Sceptic Sceptic is offline

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Default Forsaken mind control- free will is a hollow promise?

Well, in the Forsaken starting zone, "your free choice" to serve the Forsaken is often highlightened. But then I met Gerard Abernathy- and his living human mindslave Theresa in Undercity. He described his method in the following dialogue:

Gerard “A little torture, a pinch of magic, and an ample helping of invasive surgery. She was conscious, of course.”
Joanna “Did you have to house train her, Gerard?”

He made her a public slave, apparently allowed by Sylvanas.

What do you think how this will affect the story? When do you think Sylvanas will lose her qualms to finally use magical mind control?

Last edited by Sceptic; 10-15-2014 at 04:13 AM..
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Old 10-15-2014, 04:18 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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When do you think Sylvanas will lose her qualms to finally use magical mind control?
She already does. It's called Charm.
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Old 10-15-2014, 04:25 AM
Sceptic Sceptic is offline

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She already does. It's called Charm.
I haven't seen "Charm" since Warcraft 3. And the mind control spell in the battle for Andorhal was removed.
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Old 10-15-2014, 05:33 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Old 10-15-2014, 06:10 AM
Charles Phipps Charles Phipps is offline

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Sylvanas' hypocrisy is more or less highlighted in "Edge of Night" in a way I found believable. The Forsaken aren't her family, aren't her children, and aren't anything at all to her but a weapon against the Lich King. When he's dead, they become her protection. She's created a corrupt cult of personality around herself and warped everyone into believing that she's their messiah.

I find it very sad.

The Developer chats, however, state that the Forsaken mostly just kill the members of their race who won't serve her, though.
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:12 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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The Developer chats, however, state that the Forsaken mostly just kill the members of their race who won't serve her, though.
"Well, you've got free will... but if you don't join us we kill you. So you've technically got it and that means Sylvanas is totally justified and the Forsaken aren't evil!"
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:11 AM
Sceptic Sceptic is offline

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"Well, you've got free will... but if you don't join us we kill you. So you've technically got it and that means Sylvanas is totally justified and the Forsaken aren't evil!"

Last edited by Sceptic; 10-15-2014 at 07:13 AM..
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:24 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Originally Posted by Charles Phipps View Post
Sylvanas' hypocrisy is more or less highlighted in "Edge of Night" in a way I found believable. The Forsaken aren't her family, aren't her children, and aren't anything at all to her but a weapon against the Lich King. When he's dead, they become her protection. She's created a corrupt cult of personality around herself and warped everyone into believing that she's their messiah.

I find it very sad.

The Developer chats, however, state that the Forsaken mostly just kill the members of their race who won't serve her, though.
Very well put. It also begs the question, when are we going to get a real undead rebellion? Not just an anti-Lich King faction, but a pro-autonomy one.
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:45 AM
Peger Peger is offline

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Originally Posted by Sceptic View Post
Well, in the Forsaken starting zone, "your free choice" to serve the Forsaken is often highlightened. But then I met Gerard Abernathy- and his living human mindslave Theresa in Undercity. He described his method in the following dialogue:

Gerard “A little torture, a pinch of magic, and an ample helping of invasive surgery. She was conscious, of course.”
Joanna “Did you have to house train her, Gerard?”

He made her a public slave, apparently allowed by Sylvanas.

What do you think how this will affect the story? When do you think Sylvanas will lose her qualms to finally use magical mind control?
Gerard & Theresa have been around since Vanilla launch at least, possibly beta. I doubt they have anything to do with the Valkyr & post WotLK developments.
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:50 AM
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I think Forsaken mind control is like an open secret: the administration publicly denounces it but doesn't really do anything to prevent it. Kind of like how adultery is illegal but every politician has some ass on the side, or how the US government technically outlaws "torture" but is okay with "Advanced Interrogation".
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:52 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Adultery is illegal?
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:55 AM
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Adultery is illegal?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States

Apparently it's only illegal in 21 states in the union now, but even when all or almost all states had it as a criminal offense powerful politicians were still on the DL.
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:04 AM
Charles Phipps Charles Phipps is offline

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"Well, you've got free will... but if you don't join us we kill you. So you've technically got it and that means Sylvanas is totally justified and the Forsaken aren't evil!"
It's a dictatorship and I hope the Blizzard folk handle it that way. I'd love to see more Forsaken heroes.

Double points if it's a Warlock!

:-)
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:39 PM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

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I always thought an interesting development for the Forsaken would be Sylvannas getting sidelined after off LK. Several former notable figures become in control and Sylvannas just becomes some sort of figurehead.
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:05 PM
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I always thought an interesting development for the Forsaken would be Sylvannas getting sidelined after off LK. Several former notable figures become in control and Sylvannas just becomes some sort of figurehead.
I think it'd be cool if the Alliance just picked some random undead lady and claimed she was actually Calia Menethil (who can recognize her with all that rotting flesh, anyway?) and support her as a kind of proxy Banshee Queen to jeopardize Sylvanas' throne.
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:07 PM
Yakitori Yakitori is offline

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*shrug*

The Forsaken are given the choice to determine their own path upon being risen; nobody ever said that they give a shit about the rights of their living prisoners.
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:14 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Kill all Forsaken. Burn the carcasses and salt the earth where they lay.
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:58 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Kill all Forsaken. Burn the carcasses and salt the earth where they lay.
Yeah, but then you're just ruining farmland for the rebirth of Lordaeron.

Or are you to the point where you just would rather honor what was with a funeral pyre and move on?
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Old 10-16-2014, 03:57 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Old 10-16-2014, 04:02 AM
Charles Phipps Charles Phipps is offline

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I confess, I dislike the way the game more or less thinks the Forsaken begin and end with Sylvanas. Sylvanas may be their leader but she's not all that important in the grand scheme of things. We've got Forsaken heroes in the Argent Crusade and elsewhere.

Let them come to prominence.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:04 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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It is pretty terrible that every Forsaken character who isn't Sylvanas is characterised by, "They're not part of the Forsaken." Nathanios is the exception but A) He hasn't done squat since Vanilla and B) He's another Sylvanas fanboy.

I mean even the Draenei and Worgen don't have that problem.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:14 AM
belorealah belorealah is offline

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lets just end the forsaken now.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:42 AM
Charles Phipps Charles Phipps is offline

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lets just end the forsaken now.
Both the Forsaken and Orcs seem to have the problem of being characters who's bailiwick is they aren't evil despite LOOKING evil but who are getting a lot of plots where they act evil.

Do you think someone missed the memo that WOW isn't a fantasy setting where the ugly people are monsters?
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:45 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Do you think someone missed the memo that WOW isn't a fantasy setting where the ugly people are monsters?
The problem is the plot is trying to have its cake and eat it. On one hand it keeps showing us how bad the Orcs/Forsaken are, yet despite whacking them around a lot (Orcs more so, but most of RAS went out with BotUndercity I assume) there always seems to remain that threatening number of 'baddies'. Instead of now having an Orc-purged Horde we're just back to business as usual because the plot can't tolerate not having #savage aggressive Horde-aligned Orcs whilst trying to tell us "t-they're good!". Apparently there's this unlimited number of 'monsters' who always seem to crawl to the top.
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Old 10-16-2014, 05:43 AM
Charles Phipps Charles Phipps is offline

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The problem is the plot is trying to have its cake and eat it. On one hand it keeps showing us how bad the Orcs/Forsaken are, yet despite whacking them around a lot (Orcs more so, but most of RAS went out with BotUndercity I assume) there always seems to remain that threatening number of 'baddies'. Instead of now having an Orc-purged Horde we're just back to business as usual because the plot can't tolerate not having #savage aggressive Horde-aligned Orcs whilst trying to tell us "t-they're good!". Apparently there's this unlimited number of 'monsters' who always seem to crawl to the top.
It's consuming to me why they feel the need to make the Horde the bad guys too. It even seems to infect the guys who aren't from the Horde, too, as we see the Blood Elves became evil as soon as they joined the Horde only to start getting good and then consider defecting back to the Alliance. I play Alliance but I prefer a bit more Gray-Gray viewpoints.

I just roll my eyes at stuff like the Defias claiming an absurd amount of gold for their work or that it was Lady Prestor's doing as opposed to just the nobility being really greedy and dismissive.

Then again, I know people who prefer a Good Alliance and Bad Horde so it may just be a matter of taste.
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