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  #51  
Old 06-23-2010, 03:35 PM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I am so tired of people thinking the blood elves are going to physiologically change due to the sunwell. The sunwell is equally arcane and holy in composition. It isn't curing the blood elves of their addiction, it's just giving them an easy source. It's like, the blood elves were sucking cock to get heroin before the sunwell was reignited, and now they have a magical fountain of heroin. They're still heroin addicts! And they still have the mark of being heroin (fel) addicts, that being the red skin and green eyes. If the orcs haven't turned brown again after years of shunning fel magic, why shouldn't the blood elves?
Actually according to the purification of the Quel'delar quest, Lady Liadrin says:

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Lady Liadrin says: But the Light showed me that I was not lost. It helped me to find the strength to survive in spite of all that had happened and all the evil I had wrought.
Lady Liadrin says: It is a strength that we sin'dorei all share. It is a strength we will need to free ourselves of the addiction ravaging our people.
Lady Liadrin says: It will be the most difficult battle we have ever faced, but our resolve and the power of the Sunwell will sustain us until we have been restored to our greatness.
So does that mean that she hopes that the sunwell can actually cure them with time?
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  #52  
Old 06-23-2010, 04:02 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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I would love it if the Blood Elves were to get more involved within the Horde and step away from the Forsaken alignment.

This meaning that Garrosh will have to get more fond of the Blood Elves as a race and with him growing as a character within Cataclysm i would love it if his life was to be saved by Lorthemar i think that would be enough to do it.
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  #53  
Old 06-23-2010, 04:42 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Actually according to the purification of the Quel'delar quest, Lady Liadrin says:



So does that mean that she hopes that the sunwell can actually cure them with time?
I suppose I could be wrong, but I always took that to mean that the Sunwell would be used like Nicotine Gum is used to get people to quit smoking
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  #54  
Old 06-23-2010, 05:04 PM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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They've decided that the blood elves joined the Horde, the alliance has the high elves as their counterpart. I doubt they'll add another faction of high/blood elves for the alliance.
Something I really dislike, of the 10% of the high/blood elves that survived the scourge attack, they have been split into 3 groups, Blood Elves(of the Horde), Blood Elves loyal to Kael'thas and the High Elves in the alliance. Surely, with the restoring of the Sunwell and Kael'Thas dead, they could reunite under one banner?
There are really only 2 problems for this:
- Game-mechanics, the joining of blood and high elves would probably create a neutral faction, which won't happen in WoW's lifetime.
- Vareesa's 'pride', her biggest hate is because a blood elf(her cousin!) kidnapped her sons? because of the actions of 1 blood elf, you want to risk a civil war that would end up with the end of both blood and high elves?
The blood elves and high elves have a lot more alike than they have differences.

I'm guessing the protest is just overlooked, I doubt many people know it's even there.
The thing about Veressa is that the Blood Elfs have the sunwell now. They don't need any other alternative sources of magic because it's all there for them so she must be pissed over a political reason and that is the blood elves siding with the Horde who burned their forests in the first war.


But the protest is there in the game. So I say why not another blood elf schism? There is definitely a conflict of culture with in the current Blood Elf society yet they aren't allowed to express it because of mind control. The magisters on one side are like don't be a pussy use magic, drink magic it's your birthright; and another side is like Farstriders and perhaps true priests of the light who are like no just give it up and deal with the addiction. And the latter side is being oppressed into following the former's way of thinking.
Plus not every blood elf is expected to pledge loyalty to Lor'themar. I mean he's not of royal blood yet he's leading all the blood elfs to become members of the Horde. The entire high and blood elven population are not honor bound to follow him or his line.
I think a blood elf civil war would be cool. Have Alleria lead it. Just have the blood elfs who follow her wear a different color than red (like green) and maybe have them wear face tattoos or something to differentiate themselves from the blood elves and tada instant new faction. I mean they don't have to be playable characters so why can't there be another blood elf faction?
I think the one thing that's keeping blood elves in silvermoon is that they don't want to part with the Sunwell and it won't be leaving Horde territory. That's the one drawback is that most blood elves depend on that Sunwell. Yet who knows if the Blood Elfs will ban any elf outside of Silvermoon now that war with the Alliance is official. So perhaps the Alliance will have to find another sunwell if the Blood Elfs don't want to share. If they can create another one, the crater in Dalaran seems like a nice place for a magical pool of holy water.

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Originally Posted by HalfElfDragon View Post
I suppose I could be wrong, but I always took that to mean that the Sunwell would be used like Nicotine Gum is used to get people to quit smoking
You know I always thought that the thing that differentiated blood elves and high elves is that high elves can eventually wean off their addiction in time because arcane magic is like cigarettes. While Blood elves who take in fel magic or magic from sentient beings are like heroine and that they are fated to be addicted forever. But I guess I could be wrong and they'll just be high elves with green eyes if they can get rid of their addiction. Oh and they can't use light magic naturally.

Edit: I kind of don't want them to get rid of their addiction. That's what differentiates them so why would they get rid of the one savage characteristic blood elves have the differentiates them from high elves? What's the point of Blood Elves in the first place then if they're just going to revert back to high elves? It's so stupid. I mean can broken revert back to Draenei. I don't like it.
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  #55  
Old 06-24-2010, 01:00 AM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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I suppose I could be wrong, but I always took that to mean that the Sunwell would be used like Nicotine Gum is used to get people to quit smoking
The dosage in those gums is gradually reduced, and you only use it when you need it. The Sunwell is a constant, full-stream source of the addiction. It's like keeping all your arteries covered in nicotine patches and changing them when the tingling stops. For it to wean them off their addiction, they would have to be gradually extinguishing the Sunwell.

It isn't going to cure any addictions, it's going to cure them of their withdrawl symptoms by putting it in the drinking water so everyone can get as much of it as they want.
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  #56  
Old 06-24-2010, 01:23 AM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Originally Posted by Fordragon View Post
The dosage in those gums is gradually reduced, and you only use it when you need it. The Sunwell is a constant, full-stream source of the addiction. It's like keeping all your arteries covered in nicotine patches and changing them when the tingling stops. For it to wean them off their addiction, they would have to be gradually extinguishing the Sunwell.

It isn't going to cure any addictions, it's going to cure them of their withdrawl symptoms by putting it in the drinking water so everyone can get as much of it as they want.
I was thinking that the theory was that they would do something (I don't know, a spell or mental block or something) to gradually lower the amount of magic they take from the Sunwell
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  #57  
Old 06-24-2010, 01:29 AM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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I don't know that there has ever been an indication that they are even capable of regulating the Sunwell.
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  #58  
Old 06-24-2010, 01:49 AM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Originally Posted by Fordragon View Post
I don't know that there has ever been an indication that they are even capable of regulating the Sunwell.
I don't think they've ever tried or even thought of trying, given how they didn't know they had an addiction to it until it was destroyed. Now that they know that and have it back, some might make an effort to cure their addiction so if the Sunwell is ever destroyed again they won't go through withdrawal again. I doubt most will, but some of the more insightful like Lady Liadrin probably will at least give it a try
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  #59  
Old 06-24-2010, 01:53 AM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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If a small minority tries to throttle back/shut down the Sunwell, I would imagine that it ends with the small minority meeting a lynch mob and then being dragged by ropes behind a moving vehicle until they quit twitching when they hit a rock in the road.
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  #60  
Old 06-24-2010, 01:53 AM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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If a small minority tries to throttle back/shut down the Sunwell, I would imagine that it ends with the small minority meeting a lynch mob and then being dragged by ropes behind a moving vehicle until they quit twitching when they hit a rock in the road.
I was thinking they'd do it on a personal level, not for everyone
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  #61  
Old 06-24-2010, 02:01 AM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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Hard to throttle back your intake when it's being beamed straight in to your skull. If you were addicted to crack, would you be able to cut back on crack if it was an ambient thing you absorbed by being anywhere and everywhere?
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  #62  
Old 06-24-2010, 07:24 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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[QUOTE=Bedvyr;204528]Orcs, though, I don't think so, they're not even native to Azeroth, there's no reason at all for any Azerothian dragons to take on an orcish appearance. Well, there's no reason other than possible subterfuge.
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Bronze Dragons in the Caverns of Time take on Draenei shapes.
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  #63  
Old 06-24-2010, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
Bronze Dragons in the Caverns of Time take on Draenei shapes.
Bingo.

Also, are these persons Dragons in disguise?

Something about Yarley... his legs... lead me to believe they are models from earlier versions of WoW, making the statement that they are "lost in time" a meta-joke. Bortega's voice might have a story on the inside of WoW's dev team... wish we knew it.
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  #64  
Old 06-24-2010, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Bedvyr View Post
Orcs, though, I don't think so, they're not even native to Azeroth, there's no reason at all for any Azerothian dragons to take on an orcish appearance. Well, there's no reason other than possible subterfuge.
Bronze Dragons in the Caverns of Time take on Draenei shapes.
Dragons seem to choose their polymorphed mortal avatars based on aesthetic appearance alone. If one dragon decided he/she liked how orcs look, they may choose that as their avatar. Perhaps the green flight might like the green skin. I suspect they rarely do choose orcs, not because they are outsiders to Azeroth but because it would be in bad taste to the Red Dragons.

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  #65  
Old 06-24-2010, 08:49 AM
Bedvyr Bedvyr is offline

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Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
Bronze Dragons in the Caverns of Time take on Draenei shapes.
Fair enough, though I stand by my logic. It just seems odd to me that the great titan-empowered guardians of Azeroth would take on cosmetic forms of species not from Azeroth, but if they do then they do. Who am I to argue with Blizzard?
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:50 AM
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Fair enough, though I stand by my logic. It just seems odd to me that the great titan-empowered guardians of Azeroth would take on cosmetic forms of species not from Azeroth, but if they do then they do. Who am I to argue with Blizzard?
You would think they would take on Titan forms more
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  #67  
Old 06-24-2010, 09:16 AM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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Something about Yarley... his legs... lead me to believe they are models from earlier versions of WoW, making the statement that they are "lost in time" a meta-joke. Bortega's voice might have a story on the inside of WoW's dev team... wish we knew it.
Bortega's voice was actually mentioned by him before the patch that removed all gossip text from vendors.

"No, you aren't hearing things. I actually do have the voice of a young orc woman. But you listen here, boy, time travel does strange things to a body."

He also mentions that he and his brother have been stuck in the Caverns of Time for 250 years. Whether that is "real-time" or if the cavern has it's own time, we probably won't know.

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  #68  
Old 06-24-2010, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Fordragon View Post
I don't know that there has ever been an indication that they are even capable of regulating the Sunwell.
Again, going by Knick-Knaak - in "Dragon Hunt", Dar'Khan mentions that he was only able to take so much of the Sunwell's power with so many people using it, so one would have to assume there is some kind of limit to how much you can siphon from it. The lines in question:

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I had reached the limit that my calling allowed from the Sunwell. So long as I was but one of many, I could never attain my true glory!
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  #69  
Old 06-24-2010, 10:51 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Originally Posted by Fordragon View Post
The Sunwell is a constant, full-stream source of the addiction. It's like keeping all your arteries covered in nicotine patches and changing them when the tingling stops. For it to wean them off their addiction, they would have to be gradually extinguishing the Sunwell.

It isn't going to cure any addictions, it's going to cure them of their withdrawl symptoms by putting it in the drinking water so everyone can get as much of it as they want.
That seems to be making a lot of assumptions about how the Sunwell works. If you've got some source besides personal theory to back that up, I'll shut up. All indications point toward the new Sunwell being a milder form of arcane, being tempered by holy magic. It seems out of character for the Naaru to just plop a big present like that on the Plateau that has the same addicting properties as the first one. It was a gift that was meant to be used to heal the Sin'dorei. It was the demonic magics they started siphoning after the Sunwell was destroyed that made them thoughtless addicts and gave birth to the wretched. Before it was destroyed, yes, they were addicted, but they kept their sanity and lucidity and were able to regulate it, much like modern high elves.
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Old 06-24-2010, 11:34 AM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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That seems to be making a lot of assumptions about how the Sunwell works. If you've got some source besides personal theory to back that up, I'll shut up. All indications point toward the new Sunwell being a milder form of arcane, being tempered by holy magic. It seems out of character for the Naaru to just plop a big present like that on the Plateau that has the same addicting properties as the first one. It was a gift that was meant to be used to heal the Sin'dorei. It was the demonic magics they started siphoning after the Sunwell was destroyed that made them thoughtless addicts and gave birth to the wretched. Before it was destroyed, yes, they were addicted, but they kept their sanity and lucidity and were able to regulate it, much like modern high elves.
They were still addicted with the old one. As has been pointed out, they didn't know there were any negative side-effects, or even that they were addicted at all, because it permeated them on an ambient level at all times. There was no way to know about withdrawl because it was as impossible to stop consuming as it was to stop breathing.

Blood Elves are not addicted to Arcane energy; if so, they wouldn't be able to sate their addiction with Light magic, which is an entirely different source of power. They are simply addicted to magical energy, and the composition is irrelevant, hence why they feed on other magics. Feeding on Fel energy doesn't intrinsically make you a Wretched, doing too much of it does.

Therefore, given that the new Sunwell is still composed of magical energies and it is still working on an ambient level, it is doing nothing to cure their addiction; rather, it is simply returning them to a state before WC3.
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  #71  
Old 06-24-2010, 12:01 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Blood Elves are not addicted to Arcane energy; if so, they wouldn't be able to sate their addiction with Light magic, which is an entirely different source of power.
Just because another substance (or energy, in this case) can supplement and ease the addiction to another doesn't mean a person isn't addicted to the second one.

Methadone, despite being chemically different, can be used to replace and in time counteract the effects of heroin and morphine addiction. That doesn't mean such individuals aren't heroin or morphine addicts just because something else can be used to ease their withdrawal.

Not to mention, no other form of magic has proven capable of producing a physical dependency in those who use it. If one has an addiction to magic, it's rooted specifically in the arcane.

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Old 06-24-2010, 01:30 PM
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I think the High/Blood Elves are simply addicted to magic period, and like alcoholics, they gravitate to the most effective and most available fixes, which in their case is arcane.

In contrast, look at druidism, it's in balance, in tune with nature, and thus fairly self-moderating. It can be potent, but it's not the best option if you're in a hurry... it's kind of like a fine wine. Alcoholics will certainly drink fine wine if you give it to them, but sadly few are able to appreciate it. Often they'd be a lot happier with a cheap bottle of whiskey.

So my reading on the situation is that High/Blood Elves aren't particularly addicted to arcane magic, it's just that it's the most convenient (expense, commonness, and dosage.)
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:35 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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There's no evidence that anything besides arcane magic is addicting.
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  #74  
Old 06-24-2010, 02:27 PM
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There's no evidence that anything besides arcane magic is addicting.
Hmm, well it certainly appears that the felblood elves are addicted to fel magic, to give one example. And didn't Blood Knights originally steal the Light as an arcane-substitute?

I'm not an addiction expert, but I don't think addiction-substitutes work unless the substitute also has some inherently additive properties.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:28 PM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Hmm, well it certainly appears that the felblood elves are addicted to fel magic, to give one example. And didn't Blood Knights originally steal the Light as an arcane-substitute?

I'm not an addiction expert, but I don't think addiction-substitutes work unless the substitute also has some inherently additive properties.
This just in, Priests and Paladin's are coke heads.
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