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  #1376  
Old 03-16-2016, 09:47 PM
Shinjiro Aragaki Shinjiro Aragaki is offline

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Originally Posted by Sakurako View Post
Stars withered and died as the battle raged across the cosmos, scarring vast stretches of reality. Nihilam know thereafter as the doomworld became warped and twisted by the apocalyptic conflict
My deepest thanks. I really needed this.
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  #1377  
Old 03-16-2016, 09:48 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is online now

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong View Post
So I guess Twilight magic is now just the Void? It was mentioned to be the magic of the old gods which we now know they are just void beings.
Not just void beings, though.

They're the closest the Void Lords could come to creating something like themselves in the physical universe. So the Old Gods are at least partially comprised of the "stuff" that makes up physical reality. If they were purely void, they likely wouldn't be any more capable of existing in the Great Dark as they do than their creators.
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  #1378  
Old 03-16-2016, 09:56 PM
Siegrune Siegrune is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Not just void beings, though.

They're the closest the Void Lords could come to creating something like themselves in the physical universe. So the Old Gods are at least partially comprised of the "stuff" that makes up physical reality. If they were purely void, they likely wouldn't be any more capable of existing in the Great Dark as they do than their creators.
But how do the naaru exist? The passage you've quoted in the Elune thread says they're composed of holy energy. Should we take it to mean that they're still not pure holy energy?

Also, Voidwalkers seem pretty purely void, though perhaps still not 100%.
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  #1379  
Old 03-16-2016, 10:01 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is online now

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Originally Posted by Siegrune View Post
But how do the naaru exist? The passage you've quoted in the Elune thread says they're composed of holy energy. Should we take it to mean that they're still not pure holy energy?

Also, Voidwalkers seem pretty purely void, though perhaps still not 100%.
Obviously; not only do they exist not only as part of the physical universe (which is fundamentally comprised of both Light and Void), but they're also in a state of transition from Light to Void, which means that at any given time every naaru is constantly losing Light and "gaining" Void, presumably at a variable rate depending upon whether something external accelerates the change.

Voidwalkers likely aren't either - that is, while they're in physical reality. Note the way their very presence tends to drain their surroundings, causing them to assume properties of the energies they devour.

Last edited by ARM3481; 03-16-2016 at 10:03 PM..
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  #1380  
Old 03-16-2016, 10:41 PM
Yorenec Yorenec is offline

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Becoming the guardian must endow you in ways other than magical because Aegwynn's tits are nearly the size of her head.

All that magic is probably good for support to avoid back problems at least.

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Obviously; not only do they exist not only as part of the physical universe (which is fundamentally comprised of both Light and Void), but they're also in a state of transition from Light to Void, which means that at any given time every naaru is constantly losing Light and "gaining" Void, presumably at a variable rate depending upon whether something external accelerates the change.
So far it doesn't seem like it reverses naturally as well. Which makes you wonder how many dark Naaru are waiting out there to get a nice good helping of Light infusion. I had my suspicions when the priest class hall first came out but now I'm pretty much convinced a portion of the formation of the Army of the Light is gonna revolve around finding/capturing these darkened Naaru and fixing them.

Last edited by Yorenec; 03-16-2016 at 10:49 PM..
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  #1381  
Old 03-16-2016, 10:59 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Didn't one of the Ask Cdev things say that Naaru going dark is rare and that returning to light is rarer still?

That they'd cry light-tears over M'uru's re-lightening in the sunwell if they could?

Let me see...

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Ask_CDev
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What is the nature of the Void state of the Na'aru? For a being of the Light, turning into such a dark being seems like a heavy weakness. Sucking in souls and causing destruction simply because of a loss in strength greatly diminishes their saintly image. Though, this might be a reason they don't act in combat very much, as turning on your army due to fatigue wouldn't be good for morale.

Because three cases of this "cycle" have been demonstrated in Nagrand, Auchindoun, and Sunwell Plateau (K'ure, D'ore, and M'uru, respectively), players may have received the wrong impression with regard to the magnitude and rarity of these events: it is EXCEEDINGLY rare for a naaru to fall into a void state, and even rarer for a fallen naaru to be brought back into the Light. A naaru's fall into the void represents a catastrophic loss for the naaru and for the forces of the Light, and it is the saddest, most heart-wrenching event for the naaru to witness. Conversely, a naaru being reborn into the Light brings renewed hope and sense of purpose to every naaru; if energy beings could weep tears of joy, this would do it.
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  #1382  
Old 03-16-2016, 11:03 PM
Siegrune Siegrune is offline

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I've always found that passage unintentionally funny. Specifically, this part:

Because three cases of this "cycle" have been demonstrated in Nagrand, Auchindoun, and Sunwell Plateau (K'ure, D'ore, and M'uru, respectively), players may have received the wrong impression with regard to the magnitude and rarity of these events


Prime example of telling rather than showing.

Blizzard also presents us with a billion cases of world-ending threats, which should be exceedingly rare. Pretty much every raid, you're met with a neutral NPC congratulating you about how you just averted the destruction of the entire world.



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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Obviously; not only do they exist not only as part of the physical universe (which is fundamentally comprised of both Light and Void), but they're also in a state of transition from Light to Void, which means that at any given time every naaru is constantly losing Light and "gaining" Void, presumably at a variable rate depending upon whether something external accelerates the change.

Voidwalkers likely aren't either - that is, while they're in physical reality. Note the way their very presence tends to drain their surroundings, causing them to assume properties of the energies they devour.
You're right. The Chronicle also says that the naaru are "perhaps the purest expression of the Light that exists in the Great Dark Beyond," making it clearly that they are only relatively the purest (and only perhaps), rather than absolutely pure.

Last edited by Siegrune; 03-16-2016 at 11:14 PM..
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  #1383  
Old 03-16-2016, 11:24 PM
Marston Marston is offline

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Originally Posted by Siegrune View Post
You're right. The Chronicle also says that the naaru are "perhaps the purest expression of the Light that exists in the Great Dark Beyond," making it clearly that they are only relatively the purest (and only perhaps), rather than absolutely pure.
The chronicle likes to describe light using "shard" and kind of sharp/crystalline words and well, look at naaru. Makes me think that they're among the earliest/most primordial life, but that feels like it makes them kinda upstage the Titans. I hope they don't cop out on the naaru stuff in future volumes simply because they haven't thought of it yet.

Another point on the language: it makes the Light seem like the invasive force of the two when it comes to creation. I'm sure the Void was chilling there all timelessly voidy and stuff when BAM! Maybe that's why the Void Lords don't take kindly to this whole existence thing. They were there first and some asshole threw a pane of holy glass at them and made a mess.

Last edited by Marston; 03-16-2016 at 11:27 PM..
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  #1384  
Old 03-17-2016, 04:15 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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In Light of Legion's paladin lore, I think that the earliest humans and their vrykul caretakers wielded the Light, but its use was far less widespread than proto druidism and shamanism, which in their society would have seemed more useful. Over time, it was forgotten by all but the caretakers of Tyr's grave.

That way you can have the naaru as the origin of the majority of Light users, while still making sense of the secret organisation of paladins. IIRC, Yrngrim (Is that his name?) also uses the Light, so it's not farfetched to believe that other vrykul/humans did so too.

Besides, let's be honest, this is just Blizzard's way to aggrandise the Draenei paladins.
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  #1385  
Old 03-17-2016, 04:23 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
In Light of Legion's paladin lore, I think that the earliest humans and their vrykul caretakers wielded the Light, but its use was far less widespread than proto druidism and shamanism, which in their society would have seemed more useful. Over time, it was forgotten by all but the caretakers of Tyr's grave.

That way you can have the naaru as the origin of the majority of Light users, while still making sense of the secret organisation of paladins. IIRC, Yrngrim (Is that his name?) also uses the Light, so it's not farfetched to believe that other vrykul/humans did so too.

Besides, let's be honest, this is just Blizzard's way to aggrandise the Draenei paladins.
I am not sure about that, frankly. It also might be so they were warriors at first, learning to utilize the Light later on (speaking of Tyr's Guard).

As for the Draenei paladins; I do not think it is really only about that. Seems also like a non-aggressive way to make the Warcraft I angels canon without any changes to the current system.
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  #1386  
Old 03-17-2016, 04:25 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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So who or what is the "Final Titan"?
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  #1387  
Old 03-17-2016, 04:30 AM
Ratatosk Ratatosk is offline

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So who or what is the "Final Titan"?
Azeroth
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  #1388  
Old 03-17-2016, 04:31 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Azeroth
You can't be serious...
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  #1389  
Old 03-17-2016, 04:32 AM
Ratatosk Ratatosk is offline

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Does the Pantheon have anything to do with the Aspects at this point?
They still empowered the Aspects, just not directly. They used the Keepers as conduits and didn't show up in person. It was the same in DotA.
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  #1390  
Old 03-17-2016, 04:37 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
So who or what is the "Final Titan"?
Azeroth.

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
I am not sure about that, frankly. It also might be so they were warriors at first, learning to utilize the Light later on (speaking of Tyr's Guard).
Maybe, but I can't allow the goats to win. Paladins and the Light were the one thing that was unique to humans.
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  #1391  
Old 03-17-2016, 04:42 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Why would Blizzard care to canonize Angels?

Just because Light and Void are opposites doesn't mean the light has to behave in the exact same way as the void. Naaru get along better with the universe.
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  #1392  
Old 03-17-2016, 04:42 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Azeroth.


Maybe, but I can't allow the goats to win. Paladins and the Light were the one thing that was unique to humans.
How exactly is this the goats winning, if I may?

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Why would Blizzard care to canonize Angels?

Just because Light and Void are opposites doesn't mean the light has to behave in the exact same way as the void. Naaru get along better with the universe.
The Chronicle is their attempt to mash all the previous material into one coherent narrative, so the question rather stands, why wouldn't they? I mean, a large part of Vol. 2 will be revealing which Warcraft I/II missions are canon, why would they care about that either?

Last edited by Marthen; 03-17-2016 at 04:47 AM..
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  #1393  
Old 03-17-2016, 04:46 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
How exactly is this the goats winning, if I may?
Because they cheated. They had to be told about the Light.

Humans? They simply found it on their own, until Chronicle came.
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  #1394  
Old 03-17-2016, 04:49 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Because they cheated. They had to be told about the Light.

Humans? They simply found it on their own, until Chronicle came.
Actually, we have never known how they found it, so this would be a mere headcanon.
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  #1395  
Old 03-17-2016, 05:02 AM
Sargeras Sargeras is offline

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Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
There's an image of Sargeras fighting alongside his demon army while invading the world. Maybe it was an avatar?
If you are talking about the image I am thinking of, I don't think it's canon, since Sargeras isn't green-felish colour, he was always shown as kind of redish-gold, including the official art of his "fight" against Aegwynn.
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  #1396  
Old 03-17-2016, 05:07 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Actually, we have never known how they found it, so this would be a mere headcanon.
The naaru must not win, Marthen.

First they came for the elunites, and we did not speak out -
Because we felt she was secure.

Then they came for the humans, and we did not speak out -
Because their religion's origins were always unclear.

Then they came for Elune, and we did not speak out -
Because she had prevailed before.

Then they came for the Pantheon - and all that surrounded their souls was a silent Army of the Light.
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  #1397  
Old 03-17-2016, 05:09 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Someone elaborate on this Azeroth=Titan thing, please! That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
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  #1398  
Old 03-17-2016, 05:10 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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titans are "born" from certain planets and azeroth has a titan soul

so the final titan is still growing inside azeroth's core or something and we gotta make sure the old gods don't corrupt it too badly or the universe is fucked
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  #1399  
Old 03-17-2016, 05:16 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Oh well, at least my old wishcanon about the humans being the descendants of Tyr's followers and learning about the Light from him is mostly canon.

They are the descendants of his followers, and at least one of his followers used the Light.
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  #1400  
Old 03-17-2016, 05:19 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
titans are "born" from certain planets and azeroth has a titan soul

so the final titan is still growing inside azeroth's core or something and we gotta make sure the old gods don't corrupt it too badly or the universe is fucked
Still sounds stupid. What happens to everything living on the planet once the Titan "emerges"? Sounds like the planet is fucked regardless of the outcome.

How are Titans created then?

Who put a Titan soul in Azeroth?

What does "final" mean anyway?

Why was it "dormant" for so long?

Did Azeroth taking so much "beating" have any effect on it?

What took the Old Gods so long to corrupt it and why haven't they succeeded yet?

What's the Legion role in all of this?
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