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  #51  
Old 10-09-2017, 12:58 PM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Completely forgot the two mounts... So not portalcraft this time?

No idea which playable races they could add for a maritime expansion. Naga and murlocs don't seem likely options to me.
Ogres and Kvaldir?
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  #52  
Old 10-09-2017, 12:58 PM
Shadowsong Shadowsong is offline

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Only ideal race I see is naga. But I could see them not adding any race and putting focus on sub-races as the expansion feature instead. Plus updated worgen/goblin models.
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  #53  
Old 10-10-2017, 03:01 AM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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A few months ago it occurred to me that "Hiji" is a name that's very compatible with the Japanese language. It would be interested to see it blown up into a full-on Japanese style zone or archipelago, integrating ethnically "Asian" humans into Azeroth in a way that isn't just random NPCs named Woo Ping.

And you know that Blizzard couldn't resist... Samurai vrykul. (Samurykul?)
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  #54  
Old 10-10-2017, 12:19 PM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Originally Posted by HalfElfDragon View Post
A few months ago it occurred to me that "Hiji" is a name that's very compatible with the Japanese language. It would be interested to see it blown up into a full-on Japanese style zone or archipelago, integrating ethnically "Asian" humans into Azeroth in a way that isn't just random NPCs named Woo Ping.

And you know that Blizzard couldn't resist... Samurai vrykul. (Samurykul?)
Unless Blizzard goes full nuclear and proclaim all we know of Azeroth is actually just one hemisphere, and there are entire continents "around the corner", I don't see new human cultures happening.
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  #55  
Old 10-10-2017, 04:39 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
They wouldn't be 100% naga (male and female look too different anyway) but they can just introduce them as a new subrace, like the peasant-tier population of naga society, where they are just humanoids with a tail, and no extra arms or alligator faces.
Just going to jump in here and say one thing. No. Actually, make that two things. Fuck no.

What's the point of adding Naga as a race if you aren't actually adding Naga, but a new race of scaly elves that don't even have alligator faces?
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  #56  
Old 10-10-2017, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
Just going to jump in here and say one thing. No. Actually, make that two things. Fuck no.

What's the point of adding Naga as a race if you aren't actually adding Naga, but a new race of scaly elves that don't even have alligator faces?
Second.

All it takes is a bit of creativity to make Naga work as a playable race. The only real problem might be how they can implement pants; if Trolls can go without shoes Naga can go without pants.
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  #57  
Old 10-10-2017, 07:43 PM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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Originally Posted by Apep View Post
Second.

All it takes is a bit of creativity to make Naga work as a playable race. The only real problem might be how they can implement pants; if Trolls can go without shoes Naga can go without pants.
As long as they stay away from schools and children's parks.
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  #58  
Old 10-10-2017, 09:12 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Apep View Post
Second.

All it takes is a bit of creativity to make Naga work as a playable race. The only real problem might be how they can implement pants; if Trolls can go without shoes Naga can go without pants.
It's not even that. Are the people who want Naga going to be happy with things that are only "a little bit like Naga"? If they remove what makes Naga actually Naga, then who the fuck are they marketing this new race to? The Naga fans won't like it, because they aren't Naga. The people who aren't Naga fans won't be interested, because they aren't Naga fans.

What type of person even considers destroying what makes a race unique as a workable idea for implementing that race? And these "New Naga" would be stuck in the lore and kill the chances of real Naga ever being in the game, or even begin to swamp out the originals.

So, it's just a terrible idea. Converting boots/pants into tail rings/armor and having Naga sort of draping their coils over their mounts would work better. I'm not even a Naga fan, and I can still tell how terrible the suggestion to make Un-Naga is.

If you can't add Naga as Naga, then don't add Naga. Don't try to force it by utterly destroying the race. No one fucking wants that. There is no audience for that. It's fucking Monkey Paw logic.

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  #59  
Old 10-11-2017, 12:14 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I don't know what Monkey Paw is, but yes, what he said.
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  #60  
Old 10-11-2017, 12:34 AM
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I don't know what Monkey Paw is, but yes, what he said.
It's an old story about a Monkey Paw that grants wishes only the way it goes about granting them is at some cost to the wisher. I.e. dad wishes for money and gets it through his son's life insurance.
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  #61  
Old 10-11-2017, 11:45 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
I don't know what Monkey Paw is, but yes, what he said.
Apep already answered. In context, it's the typical evil genie thing. Grant someone's wish in the worst way possible. Blizzard sometimes does that sort of thing, so you have to be careful not to give them any ideas.
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  #62  
Old 10-11-2017, 05:05 PM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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I once had the idea of making a half-naga (not half-breed) kind of playable race. One that generally looks like naga, but is a little bit more humanoid. Two legs, no tail, two arms, more human-like face on both. Only I'd call them medusas and they would be related to naga, but not quite them.

It would be kind of a compromise, but yeah, it would kill the chances of ever having real naga and their unique anatomy is a big part of why people want to play them. Still, I think there's something to the medusa idea.
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  #63  
Old 10-11-2017, 06:32 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Does warcraft actually have "Lizardfolk" by name? The closest are the Saurok, right?

Could also have these guys go by a few other names; Reptilians, Demi-Naga, Kappa, Gorgons, Medusae, Echidnae, Lamia, etc.

They could either be "redeemed" Naga, either turning back to Elune or to Neptulon and away from Azshara, or "imperfect" Naga who didn't get the full snake transformation during the WotA.


Let's not forget that the naga brute models in Legion do have legs, and the RPG early on introduced the idea of mutant naga.
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  #64  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:09 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Does warcraft actually have "Lizardfolk" by name? The closest are the Saurok, right?
Yeah, the saurok are really the closest thing we have. There's also drakonids, dragonspawn, dragonmen, etc.

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Could also have these guys go by a few other names; Reptilians, Demi-Naga, Kappa, Gorgons, Medusae, Echidnae, Lamia, etc.
"Lamia" is actually used as the name for a creature featured in a piece of concept art in the original The Art of World of Warcraft. However, it doesn't really look like a classical lamia at all and is more akin to a proto-tol'vir.
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  #65  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Pepe Stormstout View Post
Yeah, the saurok are really the closest thing we have. There's also drakonids, dragonspawn, dragonmen, etc.



"Lamia" is actually used as the name for a creature featured in a piece of concept art in the original The Art of World of Warcraft. However, it doesn't really look like a classical lamia at all and is more akin to a proto-tol'vir.
Browse through a D&D Monster Manual, and you'll find out exactly why they called that a Lamia.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Lamia
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  #66  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:53 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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The video game industry has been redefining monsters for years. A Blizzard (or Elder Scrolls) "orc" is what a non-gamer would call a "troll".
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  #67  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
The video game industry has been redefining monsters for years. A Blizzard (or Elder Scrolls) "orc" is what a non-gamer would call a "troll".
This isn't a videogame redefinition. They literally just took it from D&D. That's why it's important to keep an eye on where Blizzard gets its inspiration. No one would have been even remotely surprised by all demons having the power to respawn if they weren't killed on their home plane if they did that, because it's a common mechanic of demons and other Outsiders in D&D.
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  #68  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:33 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
This isn't a videogame redefinition. They literally just took it from D&D. That's why it's important to keep an eye on where Blizzard gets its inspiration. No one would have been even remotely surprised by all demons having the power to respawn if they weren't killed on their home plane if they did that, because it's a common mechanic of demons and other Outsiders in D&D.
Case in point; The model names in the files for murlocs are "sahuagin" and crypt fiends are "dryders," despite murlocs and crypt fiends appearing in WCIII with unique names. Sahuagin and Dryders are D&D monsters that were clearly the inspiration for our Warcraft creatures and Blizz just outright took the names for them internally.


Personally, I do like when there's a "playable" version of evil creature types in RPGs. I maintain that Draenei are still "playable" demons and an interesting twist on that trope. I've also secretly harbored a desire for a Warforged-like race of robots or golems to be playable in WoW at some point.

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The video game industry has been redefining monsters for years. A Blizzard (or Elder Scrolls) "orc" is what a non-gamer would call a "troll".
I'm not sure about that. I think the non-gamer, pop-culture idea of an "orc" is relatively standardized; a gray or greenish, big brutish humanoid with some piglike features, but no one has a standard idea of what a troll is. Are they tiny dolls with big poofy hair, hook-nosed giants with regenerative abilities, or beings made of rock with supercomputers for brains and diamond teeth?
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  #69  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Case in point; The model names in the files for murlocs are "sahuagin" and crypt fiends are "dryders," despite murlocs and crypt fiends appearing in WCIII with unique names. Sahuagin and Dryders are D&D monsters that were clearly the inspiration for our Warcraft creatures and Blizz just outright took the names for them internally.


Personally, I do like when there's a "playable" version of evil creature types in RPGs. I maintain that Draenei are still "playable" demons and an interesting twist on that trope. I've also secretly harbored a desire for a Warforged-like race of robots or golems to be playable in WoW at some point.
That's why I love the D&D / MTG Planeshifts.

Zendikar Goblins

Amonkhet Khenra (jackals) / Minotaur / Naga / Aven (Hawk and Ibis people)

I hope we eventually see a plane and subsequent Planeshift with some orcs and hobgoblin type critters.

For the warforged though, I always struggle with how armor works for them, Hrmn.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:45 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
Browse through a D&D Monster Manual, and you'll find out exactly why they called that a Lamia.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Lamia
Oh. I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the information.

I guess I should have expected D&D to be the reason. Aside from the already-mentioned examples, there's also the basilisk, the Warcraft version of which is basically identical to the D&D interpretation of a multi-legged lizard.

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The video game industry has been redefining monsters for years.
True, and I do often rather enjoy that sort of use of artistic license, but I was mostly just saying that the Warcraft lamia doesn't fit what might the typical expectation of a lamia, in the context of discussing lizard people.
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  #71  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
That's why I love the D&D / MTG Planeshifts.

Zendikar Goblins

Amonkhet Khenra (jackals) / Minotaur / Naga / Aven (Hawk and Ibis people)

I hope we eventually see a plane and subsequent Planeshift with some orcs and hobgoblin type critters.

For the warforged though, I always struggle with how armor works for them, Hrmn.
Volo's Guide to Monsters has playable stats for orcs and hobgoblins, along with other "monstrous" races in goblins, bugbears, kobolds and yuan-ti.
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  #72  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
The video game industry has been redefining monsters for years. A Blizzard (or Elder Scrolls) "orc" is what a non-gamer would call a "troll".
I don't think it's as much the video game industry as the gaming industry in general, since tabltop RPGs like D&D and TCG like Magic also have a huge influence. But I agree with the general idea.

The example though... Not on point. Given the huge popularity of the Peter Jackson adaptations of the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit, I think a non-gamer would be more liable to calling "troll" what we call "ogres", and not what we call "orcs".
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  #73  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:53 PM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
This isn't a videogame redefinition. They literally just took it from D&D. That's why it's important to keep an eye on where Blizzard gets its inspiration. No one would have been even remotely surprised by all demons having the power to respawn if they weren't killed on their home plane if they did that, because it's a common mechanic of demons and other Outsiders in D&D.
You're right of course. For some reason, I was mentally classifying D&D as a video game.

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I'm not sure about that. I think the non-gamer, pop-culture idea of an "orc" is relatively standardized; a gray or greenish, big brutish humanoid with some piglike features, but no one has a standard idea of what a troll is. Are they tiny dolls with big poofy hair, hook-nosed giants with regenerative abilities, or beings made of rock with supercomputers for brains and diamond teeth?
Well you could show a picture of Thrall to non-gamers and ask them what kind of creatures he is. I tried it myself (athough my non-gamer friends are a very small sample size) and all two of them said it was a troll. I know a couple of people who looked up the word "thrall" (in the context of slavery) and said they found pictures of a troll.

I agree that trolls are non-standardized, I'd argue that "big brutish humanoid with some piglike features" would be in the set of troll along with the dolls and others.

My personal idea of orcs back in the mid 90's was something between a warcraft troll and a goblin.

Incidentally, when my father watched "Lord of the Rings", he kept waiting for the oxen to appear.

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I don't think it's as much the video game industry as the gaming industry in general, since tabltop RPGs like D&D and TCG like Magic also have a huge influence. But I agree with the general idea.

The example though... Not on point. Given the huge popularity of the Peter Jackson adaptations of the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit, I think a non-gamer would be more liable to calling "troll" what we call "ogres", and not what we call "orcs".
I definately agree witht that. Actually a Warcraft orc might be identified as an Ogre by a non-gamer because they look a bit like Shrek.

I'm not exactly sure what my point was if I'm being honest.

Last edited by Jon Targaryen; 10-12-2017 at 02:04 PM..
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  #74  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:30 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Volo's Guide to Monsters has playable stats for orcs and hobgoblins, along with other "monstrous" races in goblins, bugbears, kobolds and yuan-ti.
I'd heard the orc statblock was really terrible though to preserve halforcs being superior?
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
You're right of course. For some reason, I was mentally classifying D&D as a video game.



Well you could show a picture of Thrall to non-gamers and ask them what kind of creatures he is. I tried it myself (athough my non-gamer friends are a very small sample size) and all two of them said it was a troll. I know a couple of people who looked up the word "thrall" (in the context of slavery) and said they found pictures of a troll.

I agree that trolls are non-standardized, I'd argue that "big brutish humanoid with some piglike features" would be in the set of troll along with the dolls and others.

My personal idea of orcs back in the mid 90's was something between a warcraft troll and a goblin.

Incidentally, when my father watched "Lord of the Rings", he kept waiting for the oxen to appear.



I definately agree witht that. Actually a Warcraft orc might be identified as an Ogre by a non-gamer because they look a bit like Shrek.

I'm not exactly sure what my point was if I'm being honest.
Are you Scandinavian? That might be a factor. I know trolls are a bigger part of your folklore and fairy tales whereas Anglophone cultures tend to feature ogres and giants more often.


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I'd heard the orc statblock was really terrible though to preserve halforcs being superior?
The orc, along with the kobold, is one of two 5e races to get a minus to a stat like in 3e, after 4e and most of 5e did away with that and only gave bonuses.

The orc gets a bonus action to move faster towards an enemy and can carry more, at the expense of -2 intelligence. The half-orc can stave off death once per long rest, turning an attack that would reduce them to 0 HP to one that would reduce them to 1 HP, and they get an extra damage die on crits.

I'll be honest, I cannot think of any situation where I would rather play an orc over a half-orc or a goliath (who also gets the extra carrying capacity and has similar stat bonuses without a reduction to intelligence). It is very poorly designed and extra movement isn't enough for all the shit with the race.
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