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  #58026  
Old 08-11-2019, 03:26 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
I really hate this argument. There are more people who will believe what those they respect tell them than there are who will believe what is 'objectively right', and saying it's okay to piss off the masses because they don't REALLY believe in your cause makes things worse!
Where are these 'masses' that I am pissing off? I couldn't disagree with this more. People who are so far down the rabbit hole aren't going to be reasoned out of it no matter how nice I am about it. They won't be convinced. They don't need to be reasoned with, and they won't. They need to be stopped. I'm here to show solidarity and support for what I believe is right, and yes, to challenge the bullshit.
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  #58027  
Old 08-11-2019, 07:02 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Where are these 'masses' that I am pissing off? I couldn't disagree with this more. People who are so far down the rabbit hole aren't going to be reasoned out of it no matter how nice I am about it. They won't be convinced. They don't need to be reasoned with, and they won't. They need to be stopped. I'm here to show solidarity and support for what I believe is right, and yes, to challenge the bullshit.
You are absolutely hostile enough to alienate onlookers at times

If you are enough of an asshole about being right then no one cares and they'll side with the people who make them feel good even if it's self destructive

Edit:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-fred-rogers-evil/

Seriously?
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  #58028  
Old 08-12-2019, 04:09 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
You are absolutely hostile enough to alienate onlookers at times

If you are enough of an asshole about being right then no one cares and they'll side with the people who make them feel good even if it's self destructive

Edit:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-fred-rogers-evil/

Seriously?
You have to keep in mind that right-wing ideology requires only the overclass being special. Otherwise, the workers might demand things like a fair shake and rights instead of accepting that the only reason they weren't born billionaires is because they didn't work hard enough for as little as possible.
That and Mr Rogers is a prime example of the successful public broadcasting system, so they hate him to begin with.
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  #58029  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:34 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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https://www.propublica.org/article/l...ainst-migrants


This is... disturbing.

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To Peña and her colleagues, cases like Carlos’ signaled a troubling new era. Years of legal precedent had been swept away by Trump administration efforts to push through evermore harsh immigration policies like family separation. Then, when the courts pushed back and the policies were publicly rescinded, the administration discovered new ways to quietly continue them. She and her colleagues were counting hundreds of new cases of family separation along the border that occurred after the “zero tolerance” policy supposedly ended in June 2018. But no one could track what the government was doing with every case.
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  #58030  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:00 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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My wife and I might vote Democrat for the first time in 2020. I don't know. We'll see who it is. And we'll see what's left of both parties when Trump's gone.

If the whole "child separation" platform goes away when Trump's gone, and if the republicans nominate an actual person instead of a cartoon character after him, then I'll probably shift back. And I'll be grateful that at least Obama's judges didn't make it through.
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  #58031  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:12 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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My wife and I might vote Democrat for the first time in 2020. I don't know. We'll see who it is. And we'll see what's left of both parties when Trump's gone.

If the whole "child separation" platform goes away when Trump's gone, and if the republicans nominate an actual person instead of a cartoon character after him, then I'll probably shift back. And I'll be grateful that at least Obama's judges didn't make it through.
Baby steps, my friend. The Left is waiting with open arms for anyone who actually likes democracy.

(Better? )
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  #58032  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:30 PM
Feltongue Feltongue is offline

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My wife and I might vote Democrat for the first time in 2020. I don't know. We'll see who it is. And we'll see what's left of both parties when Trump's gone.

If the whole "child separation" platform goes away when Trump's gone, and if the republicans nominate an actual person instead of a cartoon character after him, then I'll probably shift back. And I'll be grateful that at least Obama's judges didn't make it through.
Fuck yes, finally get your head out of your own asses and be the leader of the free world again instead of the lynch pin for far right misanthropic mishaps.
And finally get rid of your dumb ass two party system so you can actually gauge where the fuck your voters actually lie on the scheme of things.
And goddamn install some cybernet police, you have the goddamn funds. But only after you voted again and got rid of the two party system.
Also separate religion and state.

Fuck it give us your money so we can fix ourselves at least till you go through Enlightenment.

Last edited by Feltongue; 08-13-2019 at 08:33 PM..
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  #58033  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:04 AM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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Fuck it give us your money.
At last a position I can get behind!
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  #58034  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:10 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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.And finally get rid of your dumb ass two party system so you can actually gauge where the fuck your voters actually lie on the scheme of things.
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But only after you voted again and got rid of the two party system.
Five bucks says Trump would still be president, except instead of a Republican Party it'd be a coalition of smaller parties.

The same Democrats would still be arguing to see who has the best chance of beating him, except they'd each be from a smaller distinct party.

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Also separate religion and state.
If we choose a hereditary monarch and name her head of the Church of America, would that count as separating religion and state?

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  #58035  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:49 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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My aunt was deported last month. I'd just like to take a moment to point out that all of you here who vote for republicans for their "tough on immigration" policies are to blame for tearing her away from my uncle.
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  #58036  
Old 08-14-2019, 12:20 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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The same Democrats would still be arguing to see who has the best chance of beating him, except they'd each be from a smaller distinct party.
And those smaller parties would likely just quickly become segments of permanent "coalitions," in effect remaining two parties in all but name. When it comes down to it, the American parties are basically what other countries call party coalitions, only they're pre-formed and maintained before the elections instead of after.

Folks talk about "getting rid of the two-party system" as if it's somehow a legally mandated or constitutionally enshrined requirement or something that can be amended or legislated away, but it's really just a result of how the alignment of general political dispositions has shaken out. To "get rid of" it, one would practically have to pass some law forcing the voters to join certain other parties, which would frankly have to be enforced in a tyrannical manner for it not to be easily worked around.
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  #58037  
Old 08-14-2019, 01:22 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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And those smaller parties would likely just quickly become segments of permanent "coalitions," in effect remaining two parties in all but name. When it comes down to it, the American parties are basically what other countries call party coalitions, only they're pre-formed and maintained before the elections instead of after.

Folks talk about "getting rid of the two-party system" as if it's somehow a legally mandated or constitutionally enshrined requirement or something that can be amended or legislated away, but it's really just a result of how the alignment of general political dispositions has shaken out. To "get rid of" it, one would practically have to pass some law forcing the voters to join certain other parties, which would frankly have to be enforced in a tyrannical manner for it not to be easily worked around.
The two-party system is mainly due to our dumb FPTP system.
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  #58038  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:25 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Why does First Past The Post exist?
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  #58039  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:28 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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And those smaller parties would likely just quickly become segments of permanent "coalitions," in effect remaining two parties in all but name. When it comes down to it, the American parties are basically what other countries call party coalitions, only they're pre-formed and maintained before the elections instead of after.

Folks talk about "getting rid of the two-party system" as if it's somehow a legally mandated or constitutionally enshrined requirement or something that can be amended or legislated away, but it's really just a result of how the alignment of general political dispositions has shaken out. To "get rid of" it, one would practically have to pass some law forcing the voters to join certain other parties, which would frankly have to be enforced in a tyrannical manner for it not to be easily worked around.
Not so. Yes there is a reason your two big tent parties shaked out the way they did but if each wing of them was its own thing then there would be crossover. Clintonite types could make a coalition with most wings of the Republicans. You may think business-oriented wings of the Reps would never ally with SocDems but provided that the latter haven't gone full commie then lured by lust for power such "rotten coalitions" have happened many times throughout history.

And I disagree about your nebulous fears of tyranny too. As I understand being registered with a party is only relevant if that party holds closed primaries. So who cares if you are registered to an old party, you can stay or you can leave and join a new one if you so please. I feel I am missing something here so feel free to clue me in.

Either way FPTP is an awful system if for no other reason then for the "spoiler effect" alone. That is what is killing 3rd parties (and with them stifles political drift and new ideas coming in) in the US and also making partisanship infinitely worse in your country. If you as a Rep vote Libertarian you are just splitting your vote and giving the Dems a higher chance of winning, same with Greens and Dems. This naturally nurtures a "my party right or wrong" mindset since breaking ranks is giving the win to the "enemy." But in a more proportional system you can support the people you like, putting them in power in the legislature if not the executive branch without worrying about weakening any prospective coalition, you are just making sure that coalition will be more like you if your party enters it. Indeed have real % numbers of support means a lot, right now it seems Social Democrats are on the rise in the Dems, but maybe they get 5% of the vote in the elections and old school Dems win 35, it keeps politics sane and lets them evolve naturally.

Now this is not to say a purely representative model is not without drawbacks. The main one is imo Partiocracy. Now this exists in your current model too but it is a lot worse when you don't have local representation and your place on the party list of members is everything (the higher up you are the more likely you are to be among those elected). It leads to power being concentrated in the capital and big cities where fatcats tend to live. And since the party and loyalty to it is so important porkbarrel issues crop up more to reward the loyalists.

Ofc as is often the case, por que no los dos? You can have a more proportional system so small parties can grow and thrive as well as one with local representation which is a thing I wish we had. Good ones are Mixed Member Proportional and Schulze Method if people want to look into this, you can find it online and CGP Grey also has great videos on election methods.

I really wish my country switched to one of those two but almost no one is even talking about electoral reform, corrupt bastards. : /
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  #58040  
Old 08-15-2019, 10:58 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Has anyone else seen the creepy stockholm syndrome type tweets coming from all the Amazon PR folks?


EDIT:

https://imfemalewarrior.tumblr.com/p...ade-me-smile-i

Well this is somewhat refreshing.
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  #58041  
Old 08-20-2019, 01:08 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Reminder that three right-wing terrorist attacks were prevented this week.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/18/u...led/index.html

Keep this in mind when the right continues their non-stop crusade to label anti-fascism as terrorism.
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  #58042  
Old 08-21-2019, 07:40 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Reminder that three right-wing terrorist attacks were prevented this week.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/18/u...led/index.html

Keep this in mind when the right continues their non-stop crusade to label anti-fascism as terrorism.
Reading the article, it only establishes one of them as "right-wing". Reardon was threatening a Jewish community center and avidly white nationalist.

I didn't see anything like that on Wagshol or Wix. With Wagshol, the article didn't give much motive--just that he was stocked and prepared.

With Wix, it seems he was enamored with the mass shooter culture. He wanted to break the record for most kills; he expected to die and to have fun doing it. Can I blame philosophical nihilism for this trend?

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 08-21-2019 at 07:48 AM..
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  #58043  
Old 08-21-2019, 04:53 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I like it.

My advice to our American friends is to start finding common ground. Agree on things you can and don't fight fights just 'cuz. Work to diminish partisan strife not increase it. Relevant to this are cop cams, I see no reason not to have them as they provide evidence of what happened so a just verdict can be rendered. From the other side of the isle voter ID is not racist, in virtually every other country you need ID to vote, why not the US? Things like that.
You're missing context here. The right doesn't want cops to be responsible for their actions. They want a police state.
As far as voter ID goes, it's just part of their continuing fight against voting rights. We don't have same-day voter registration. Voter rolls in blue districts are randomly purged. Voting locations in blue districts are changed at the last minute. Anyone found guilty of a felony can never vote again. Automated calls and fliers are made in blue areas every election telling people the wrong locations and times to vote.
Keep in mind we also have some of the most laughably vulnerable voting systems. Tons of districts have just digital machines with no paper trail. Machines which are often as easy to hack as typing in putting in "admin/password" for login credentials. Of course, these systems are in place because the right has contracts with the manufacturers of the machines.
The right has been sabotaging our democracy for years and people are getting fucking sick of it. Now, they've kicked it in to high gear with help from Russia's attacks on our sovereignty. Any attempt to secure our elections with the most basic of security measures is immediately shot down. If you're following along, that's treason.

The American right is nothing short of treasonous.
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  #58044  
Old 08-21-2019, 06:01 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I remember before Trump, when the Democrats were considered soft on Russia and the Republicans were the ones afraid of it.
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  #58045  
Old 08-21-2019, 07:33 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I remember before Trump, when the Democrats were considered soft on Russia and the Republicans were the ones afraid of it.
Strange how that changed when Russia attacked the United States and Republican senators responded by doing things like spending 4th of July in Moscow and allowing the attacks to continue.
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  #58046  
Old 08-22-2019, 09:54 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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You're missing context here. The right doesn't want cops to be responsible for their actions. They want a police state.
As far as voter ID goes, it's just part of their continuing fight against voting rights. We don't have same-day voter registration. Voter rolls in blue districts are randomly purged. Voting locations in blue districts are changed at the last minute. Anyone found guilty of a felony can never vote again. Automated calls and fliers are made in blue areas every election telling people the wrong locations and times to vote.
Keep in mind we also have some of the most laughably vulnerable voting systems. Tons of districts have just digital machines with no paper trail. Machines which are often as easy to hack as typing in putting in "admin/password" for login credentials. Of course, these systems are in place because the right has contracts with the manufacturers of the machines.
The right has been sabotaging our democracy for years and people are getting fucking sick of it. Now, they've kicked it in to high gear with help from Russia's attacks on our sovereignty. Any attempt to secure our elections with the most basic of security measures is immediately shot down. If you're following along, that's treason.

The American right is nothing short of treasonous.
You gotta provide citations Kak or people will say it's exaggerated
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  #58047  
Old 08-23-2019, 06:27 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I would love an easier system of voter registration that also requires valid ID when voting. Show me which party (or rogue politician) suggests that. I'm not being sarcastic.

As it is, I know that Texans without a driver license can obtain a free voter's ID. So I'm having trouble seeing injustice, so much as inconvenience.
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  #58048  
Old 08-23-2019, 03:12 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Obviously some extreme measures to prevent people from voting or acquiring the rights to vote should be shut down. In most case I imagine things are not so dire and getting an ID is a reasonable request.

Ultimately it is just an example, I am sure there are even better examples of the Democrats being dicks. Even you can see how a narrative of Reps 100% bad, Dems 100% right is silly and more than likely biased.

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  #58049  
Old 08-23-2019, 03:39 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Do you have any examples on hand? I'm partial to the left, so I wouldn't really hear about recent cases of their gerrymandering/voter suppression/etc even if they came up.
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  #58050  
Old 08-23-2019, 03:59 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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I am just idly speculating. I am not from the US if you recall.
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