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  #45426  
Old 08-03-2016, 09:15 PM
Galdus Galdus is offline

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>Implying the proper society for conquering the stars would be SJW approved
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  #45427  
Old 08-03-2016, 09:24 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
About the whole gay, trans, xir/xie, furries, otherkin and all the way up to legit mental things like headmates... I feel it is somewhat inevitable. People just live too good lives, many in the west are almost living in a post-scarcity age. By which I mean base survival is covered with minimal or no effort. People don't feel the need to interact with other people, they just don't have as much need for it, they don't depend on others in the way peopled used to not that long ago. This along with the feeling of being small caused by being one of billions makes people do a lot of crazy things to stand out, to be an individual. It also breeds a lot of selfishness.

But again I am not sure there is a way around this, if liberty is to preserved anyway. Given a choice and the means most people will max out their pleasure and fulfill their fantasies. As we have more energy at our disposal, which is the currency of the future, things will only get crazier. I think this process is even strong enough to bash down any would be fascist who would oppose it. If technological progress holds there will be nothing to stop this train, even as society becomes more hedonistic and corrupt (ergo weak). Eventually chances are people will live in space habitats, orbiting our Sun or another star and within these habitats they will have their own little fantasy playground. And things going on inside those will by and large probably be obscene or even monstrous by our modern PoV. I see these very self-centered people of our times as just a precursor of things to come, and this phenomena will only increase with increasing wealth and abundance.

This is not necessarily a horrible thing, if some basic rules like no killing and so on hold. You can go full pervert but you can also make a virtuous life with like minded people if that happens to be your fantasy.
My main fear now is that between now and then social, economical and worst of all potential technological disasters could see a lot of us dead. I also worry many of us may be seen as "redundant" by the elites, and we all can imagine how that might turn out.
Habitats wouldn't even be necessary. You'd just need powerful enough simulation technology. I doubt it'd even be the exclusive province of the rich; it'd be very effective as a "bread and circuses" type of deal. Plus, those with strong escapist tendencies are probably less likely to have kids.

Basically I can see more and more people hooked up to VR or whatever, living out their fantasies and disconnecting from the real world (which means those in power may have more leeway to do as they please). We're already seeing this, somewhat.

This is not something I consider an optimal future, by any means.
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  #45428  
Old 08-03-2016, 11:01 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Habitats wouldn't even be necessary. You'd just need powerful enough simulation technology. I doubt it'd even be the exclusive province of the rich; it'd be very effective as a "bread and circuses" type of deal. Plus, those with strong escapist tendencies are probably less likely to have kids.

Basically I can see more and more people hooked up to VR or whatever, living out their fantasies and disconnecting from the real world (which means those in power may have more leeway to do as they please). We're already seeing this, somewhat.

This is not something I consider an optimal future, by any means.
Simulations or even becoming fully digital is a thing I can see happening. Provided that there is good evidence that continuity of thought is maintained in the conversion to a digital being I don't see why people wouldn't do it (you can do anything inside and it is more energy/economically efficient to be digital).

Again like the self-centered people of today the internet and our modern media culture is a precursor of things to come. I mean online you have porn, interesting and educational content and you can pirate just about any form of entertaining media to boot (I do think piracy is not fought as hard as it could be on purpose).

The future outcome I see as most probable is somewhere between genocide and a bountiful future for all. I think soon enough unemployment and pressures from outside immigrants (this includes phenomena like terrorism) will be too much. The powers that be (helped by increased automation) will provide everyone regardless of any criteria with a basic level of prosperty. Enough to provide food, modest shelter and electronic gadgets to keep them docile, disinterested and unlikely to breed (as you speculated). Basically enough for a decent life yet one that is very modest given what is possible. Given that the trend of increasing wealth inequality will continue throughout all of this, what we will end up with eventually is the vast majority of people living in ghettos and a small elite living in impossible wealth and excess. At least in the period of next 100 to 150 years. Beyond that things could go a lot of ways.

I agree that such an outcome feels far from perfect. I wonder if you have begun to see things like I do, that just about everything we consider normal today will cease to matter in the not so distant future. What we consider intelligent will change with AI and genetic manipulation, what we consider human or a person might change with genetic manipulation and cybernetic implants, inevitably as we change our minds and bodies what is acceptable morally will change, our ways of life will change. Reproduction could see a thousand different new forms. Some may seek to distance themselves from others and live in their own small worlds while others may seek to merge minds... and who knows what else, the future is the future because we don't know what will happen. Again technology has already changed us, we are already experiences some changes, but it is nothing like how it will be in the future, the way of life imposed on us by biology, what is seen as normal now, will be obliterated.

TLDR, I don't think there is a "good and normal" future for mankind. The future will be deeply "unnatural," and probably somewhat disturbing from out current PoV. I do wonder if you think a more "sane" future is possible?
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  #45429  
Old 08-03-2016, 11:24 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Simulations or even becoming fully digital is a thing I can see happening. Provided that there is good evidence that continuity of thought is maintained in the conversion to a digital being I don't see why people wouldn't do it (you can do anything inside and it is more energy/economically efficient to be digital).

Again like the self-centered people of today the internet and our modern media culture is a precursor of things to come. I mean online you have porn, interesting and educational content and you can pirate just about any form of entertaining media to boot (I do think piracy is not fought as hard as it could be on purpose).

The future outcome I see as most probable is somewhere between genocide and a bountiful future for all. I think soon enough unemployment and pressures from outside immigrants (this includes phenomena like terrorism) will be too much. The powers that be (helped by increased automation) will provide everyone regardless of any criteria with a basic level of prosperty. Enough to provide food, modest shelter and electronic gadgets to keep them docile, disinterested and unlikely to breed (as you speculated). Basically enough for a decent life yet one that is very modest given what is possible. Given that the trend of increasing wealth inequality will continue throughout all of this, what we will end up with eventually is the vast majority of people living in ghettos and a small elite living in impossible wealth and excess. At least in the period of next 100 to 150 years. Beyond that things could go a lot of ways.

I agree that such an outcome feels far from perfect. I wonder if you have begun to see things like I do, that just about everything we consider normal today will cease to matter in the not so distant future. What we consider intelligent will change with AI and genetic manipulation, what we consider human or a person might change with genetic manipulation and cybernetic implants, inevitably as we change our minds and bodies what is acceptable morally will change, our ways of life will change. Reproduction could see a thousand different new forms. Some may seek to distance themselves from others and live in their own small worlds while others may seek to merge minds... and who knows what else, the future is the future because we don't know what will happen. Again technology has already changed us, we are already experiences some changes, but it is nothing like how it will be in the future, the way of life imposed on us by biology, what is seen as normal now, will be obliterated.

TLDR, I don't think there is a "good and normal" future for mankind. The future will be deeply "unnatural," and probably somewhat disturbing from out current PoV. I do wonder if you think a more "sane" future is possible?
I think that the decreasing population (currently, the birth rate in the developing world has slowed, even if the population growth has not yet done so) will reduce the competition for resources. On the other hand, it will also reduce the tax and consumer bases, which could be a major challenge for governments and economies.

As more and more of life goes online, you might also see simulations replacing the real thing for a variety of luxury items (the truly rich would still use the real thing). This might ease the resource strain. Simulation of faraway places might replace travel for many people (though I can't imagine it'd be experienced as entirely satisfying--then again, my time in Morrowind feels more real than several of my real-life experiences, and that was with a pretty clunky game engine).

Now, an underclass of people who are hooked up to VR and sustained by basic income will probably be pretty apathetic as long as the entertainment keeps coming in. We'd basically be surrendering democracy for luxury, which is what humans tend to do. This puts tremendous power in the hands of the few, which is not something that bodes well.

Differences between humans and machines will likely blur. I can see basic genetic modifications (as in, immunity to genetic diseases and so forth) being seen as human rights.

I am actually skeptical about people transferring their consciousness to a machine form. What would actually happen is that you'd create a copy of yourself in a machine body. You yourself would still be in a regular flesh-and-blood body. Creating copies may well have some form of utility, but I doubt that full transference will ever be feasible.

In much of the West, humans actually live in a state in which instincts that developed from millennia of survival have actually become liabilities. Our opportunistic eating habits are an example of this; opportunistic eating is not beneficial when food is so plentiful. We'll probably see this divide increase further over the next several decades. We may try to modify humans to better fit in such a society, but that in itself will have a concatenating effect.

I don't really think that such changes will be bad in and of themselves (though they could open up all kinds of abuses), though I doubt I'd be comfortable with all of them. I'm all for tinkering with cybernetics and genetics; I'd be a hypocrite if I took any other stance, given that I already have an insulin pump.
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  #45430  
Old 08-04-2016, 05:10 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
This is not necessarily a horrible thing, if some basic rules like no killing and so on hold. You can go full pervert but you can also make a virtuous life with like minded people if that happens to be your fantasy.
My main fear now is that between now and then social, economical and worst of all potential technological disasters could see a lot of us dead. I also worry many of us may be seen as "redundant" by the elites, and we all can imagine how that might turn out.
Look at Western Europe alone. The current model is not healthy and I fear for when it goes all out. Racial and religious tensions are off the charts and the ''tolerance'' movement only fuels the fire. It's kind of sad to see European countries retract from unity and go back to insular mindsets, but at the same time I'm also relieved I live in a country where I won't be run over by a nutjob at a festival, and be told I deserved it because of ''Sins of the father''.
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  #45431  
Old 08-04-2016, 11:17 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Look at Western Europe alone. The current model is not healthy and I fear for when it goes all out. Racial and religious tensions are off the charts and the ''tolerance'' movement only fuels the fire. It's kind of sad to see European countries retract from unity and go back to insular mindsets, but at the same time I'm also relieved I live in a country where I won't be run over by a nutjob at a festival, and be told I deserved it because of ''Sins of the father''.
Sins of the father unless you are Muslim.
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  #45432  
Old 08-04-2016, 11:41 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Omg, the montage at the end had me in tears.
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  #45433  
Old 08-04-2016, 08:19 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I am a full functioning 3D printer that makes people. I feel really sorry for people that can't have kids. I really want to have my own some day and it is something I take for granted.
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  #45434  
Old 08-05-2016, 12:10 AM
Shroombie Shroombie is offline

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I am a full functioning 3D printer that makes people. I feel really sorry for people that can't have kids. I really want to have my own some day and it is something I take for granted.
My girlfriend's infertile, and I gotta say, we both think it's pretty rad.
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  #45435  
Old 08-05-2016, 06:40 AM
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My girlfriend's infertile, and I gotta say, we both think it's pretty rad.
I congratulate you on having the one female on earth not prone to mood swings and radical changes in personality or opinions.
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  #45436  
Old 08-05-2016, 07:29 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I congratulate you on having the one female on earth not prone to mood swings and radical changes in personality or opinions.
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  #45437  
Old 08-05-2016, 11:17 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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I congratulate you on having the one female on earth not prone to mood swings and radical changes in personality or opinions.
HAH! Women, amirite?
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  #45438  
Old 08-05-2016, 04:22 PM
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I congratulate you on having the one female on earth not prone to mood swings and radical changes in personality or opinions.
If anything it makes her worse tbh.
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  #45439  
Old 08-05-2016, 09:21 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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HAH! Women, amirite?
I hope you people's significant others hit you.
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  #45440  
Old 08-05-2016, 10:20 PM
Galdus Galdus is offline

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  #45441  
Old 08-05-2016, 11:28 PM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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I hope you people's significant others hit you.
If they did, I'm sure it'd be right after they said they loved us forever.
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  #45442  
Old 08-06-2016, 04:18 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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If they did, I'm sure it'd be right after they said they loved us forever.
Sometime's love hurts.
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  #45443  
Old 08-06-2016, 04:31 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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and be told I deserved it because of ''Sins of the father''.
How many kebabs did your ancestors impale? You are also guilty of the Crusades, Inquisition, Colonialism, etc.

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Sometime's love hurts.
Anal?
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  #45444  
Old 08-06-2016, 09:24 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Utterly shameful

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/2033...tism-on-campus

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Last February, Oberlin College became the flashpoint of a national controversy when it was discovered that the liberal arts school was employing an openly anti-Semitic professor. On Facebook, social justice writing instructor Joy Karega had dubbed ISIS a “CIA and Mossad operation,” suggested Israel downed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, claimed the Mossad perpetrated the Charlie Hebdo attacks, posted a video arguing that Jews did 9/11, and shared an anti-Semitic meme of Jewish banker Jacob Rothschild that declared, “We own your news, the media, your oil, and your government.” Karega’s story was covered in the New York Times and numerous other media outlets, and her conduct was condemned by Oberlin’s board of trustees.

At the time, some publications—including Tablet—suggested that Karega’s hiring, despite her prejudiced views, represented a broader institutional failure at Oberlin. Two of Oberlin’s associate deans had served on the small search committee that hired Karega to guide undergraduates in ethical activism, and yet they completely failed to recognize her bigotry. Tablet has learned, however, that the institution’s seeming inability to face up to Karega’s conduct went even higher than previously reported, and that a broader climate of anti-Semitism has gone unaddressed on campus.

On Jan. 26, 2015, a full month before Karega’s posts went public, an email obtained by Tablet was sent by a concerned alumni group to Oberlin president Marvin Krislov. Attached to it was a 28-page document containing testimonies of anti-Semitic incidents at Oberlin. Some of the allegations related to actions that rested on the blurry line between criticism of Israel and anti-Jewish bigotry. They were certainly debatable. But some were not—most notably, a screenshot of Karega’s anti-Semitic Facebook post about the Rothschilds and Jewish global domination. Karega’s name was redacted from the images of her posts, and she was presented only as “an Oberlin faculty member who has been identified by students as someone who makes hostile remarks about Israel in a class whose syllabus does not include topics related to Israel.”
How does this still happen? It's just mindboggling.
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  #45445  
Old 08-06-2016, 09:26 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Anal?
You sound like someone that watches too much porn and doesn't know enough real women.
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  #45446  
Old 08-06-2016, 09:26 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
Look at Western Europe alone. The current model is not healthy and I fear for when it goes all out. Racial and religious tensions are off the charts and the ''tolerance'' movement only fuels the fire. It's kind of sad to see European countries retract from unity and go back to insular mindsets, but at the same time I'm also relieved I live in a country where I won't be run over by a nutjob at a festival, and be told I deserved it because of ''Sins of the father''.
Clearly your ancestors didn't impale enough.
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  #45447  
Old 08-06-2016, 09:33 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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You sound like someone that watches too much porn and doesn't know enough real women.


Teach me your ways.
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  #45448  
Old 08-06-2016, 09:57 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Utterly shameful

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/2033...tism-on-campus



How does this still happen? It's just mindboggling.
How do people hire BLM supporters?
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  #45449  
Old 08-06-2016, 10:02 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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How do people hire BLM supporters?
How does that relate to anti-semitism at all?

Also, since when do you support basing hiring decisions on one's presence in political groups?

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  #45450  
Old 08-06-2016, 10:28 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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You sound like someone that watches too much porn and doesn't know enough real women.
The OB department was my last stop before quitting med school. I could say I have been "inside" women.

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How do people hire BLM supporters?
It's racist to turn them down.
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