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  #26  
Old 12-09-2010, 06:06 PM
Curll Curll is offline

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
At BlizzCon 2010, Metzen said that the zerg will always remain the worst thing that can happen to your day. Before, I asked what the zerg would do if they were not bound by the Dark Voice's directives. I feel that the anwser is that the zerg will become semi-intelligent animals, and will violently carve out a place in the universe, but will stop being so determined to actively seek out and kill/assimilate all life.
Sounds pretty much like the Horde in Warcraft.
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  #27  
Old 12-09-2010, 06:36 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Just THINK POSITIVE.
Uh, no.

And this isn't about dark and brooding vs. light and happy. This is about good writing versus bad.

RoC may have a happy ending, but it's an ending where you feel the characters have earned it. It doesn't feel easy or light. It's SATISFYING. Existentialist free-will stories about the Zerg are just obnoxious.
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  #28  
Old 12-10-2010, 05:57 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Which we actualy don't know, Kerrigan herself says that at the end of the cinematic. We are all just assuming they will end up being good.
I'm worried at zerg being "free", I don't care about good or evil.

Bye bye hivemind?
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  #29  
Old 12-10-2010, 08:04 AM
Zula Zula is offline

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I'm worried at zerg being "free", I don't care about good or evil.

Bye bye hivemind?
Its a free hivemind, we won't have Zerglings drinking tea with Protoss or discovering their secret passion for flower arrangments.
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  #30  
Old 12-14-2010, 05:53 PM
xie323 xie323 is offline

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I thought the ending was pretty good. Mengsk's death was a bit cliche but it was fitting that it be brought by Kerrigan. We don't know if the Zerg would turn good, as Kerrigan say that they could still go out of control and destroy worlds.
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  #31  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:12 AM
Atomic_Piggy Atomic_Piggy is offline

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I just watched it...and ugh, I'm so disappointed. I appreciate we haven't seen the rest of the game, but it's unbelievably corny and so...un-starcraftey.

SPOILERS






Mengsk dying...I mean, he's had it coming for a long time, but that's sort of the point - he's so good at manipulating people and he's such an opportunist that he manages to wriggle out of all situations. Presumably, his son will take over as emperor, and unite with the protoss and zerg against the Dark Voice.

Ugh, just writing that sounds so cliched.





END SPOILERS

Last edited by Atomic_Piggy; 12-15-2010 at 09:15 AM..
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  #32  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:49 AM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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Cliches are cliches for a reason. The reason being, people enjoy them. It might be, as you say, cheesy or corny, but people still enjoy it for playing on some kind of cord inside your typical human. It might not even be the pinnacle of writing superiority, but I still like it because when I play a video game I'm not looking for some deep truths. I want entertainment. That's the precise reason I hate Cata heroics (because I have to WORK on them - the opposite of entertainment), and why I love the recent developments in StarCraft story. Because it's entertaining. It felt good to see Raynor carrying Kerrigan on his hands with this "gotcha". It was satisfying to see something good happen in this guy's life finally. Same as it feels good to finally see Mengsk getting what he deserved, in the most epic way possible.

Blizzard's stories has always been cheesy and corny. Always. If you don't like that, what are you still doing there?
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  #33  
Old 12-15-2010, 12:38 PM
Atomic_Piggy Atomic_Piggy is offline

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Originally Posted by Xarthat View Post
Cliches are cliches for a reason. The reason being, people enjoy them. It might be, as you say, cheesy or corny, but people still enjoy it for playing on some kind of cord inside your typical human. It might not even be the pinnacle of writing superiority, but I still like it because when I play a video game I'm not looking for some deep truths. I want entertainment. That's the precise reason I hate Cata heroics (because I have to WORK on them - the opposite of entertainment), and why I love the recent developments in StarCraft story. Because it's entertaining. It felt good to see Raynor carrying Kerrigan on his hands with this "gotcha". It was satisfying to see something good happen in this guy's life finally. Same as it feels good to finally see Mengsk getting what he deserved, in the most epic way possible.

Blizzard's stories has always been cheesy and corny. Always. If you don't like that, what are you still doing there?
This makes it two campaigns in a row we have had a happy ending. I have no problems with happy endings, but Starcraft is generally a pessimistic universe. The Terran campaign in the first one? Unhappy ending. Zerg campaign? Unhappy ending (good for the zerg though). Protoss campaign? Happy ending, only achieved through great sacrifice and it is rather bittersweet, seeing how they have lost their homeland. And brood war was cynical as hell. Now, in two campaigns we have:

Kerrigan being deinfested.
The Overmind being a misunderstood good guy (Tassadar - whos not dead - even praises its courage).
The zerg purged from char.

And now, Mengsk is killed by a Kerrigan-Raynor tag team, and Kerrigan agrees to leave humanity alone. This is nothing like the gritty, dark storyline of starcraft one where everybody was manipulating everyone else and the few good people, like Raynor and Zeratul, are screwed over the vast majority of the time. Undoubtedly there were cliched elements in starcraft 1, but it was well written and it fitted well.
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  #34  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:05 PM
xie323 xie323 is offline

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I believe it's rather that there is a trend going on that requests happier endings to be made. Even if it doesn't fit within a preexisting universe that is gritty and dark. That is because now the world is in an unoptimistic and pessimistic mood, and many people felt that despite what is happening, they should cheer up their audience in fiction, thus all the happy and cliched stories we see now. I think the message behind this is: We need to cry sometimes, but we also need to laugh, smile, and feel that as bad as things get, we can make a difference for the better.

If the world was more optimistic or more better place, then the ending of Starcraft II would be a hell lot darker or bittersweet.
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  #35  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:13 PM
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I think StarCraft is just getting "WoW"-ized, you know, getting bland to appeal the masses.

Which sucks hell, but well .
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  #36  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:18 PM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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Come on, Jim really needed something finally going his way. That's why I was so satisfied with ending of WoL - because this guy had so much against him, that when he is finally happy - even if just for a split second - you're happy with him.

I mean, I was for the bad endings too for a long time. Hell, when I wrote down my own version of SC2 (way before it was oficially announced) it ended with the Xel'Naga (as a playable race, no less) conquering everything, including Earth. But you can be cynical for only so long... after a while you just break and want to finally see some light. Perhaps Blizzard's writers either got to this stage, or they felt SC2 needed that stage - to have some uplifting message after all this tragedy.
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  #37  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:24 PM
Atomic_Piggy Atomic_Piggy is offline

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Come on, Jim really needed something finally going his way. That's why I was so satisfied with ending of WoL - because this guy had so much against him, that when he is finally happy - even if just for a split second - you're happy with him.

I mean, I was for the bad endings too for a long time. Hell, when I wrote down my own version of SC2 (way before it was oficially announced) it ended with the Xel'Naga (as a playable race, no less) conquering everything, including Earth. But you can be cynical for only so long... after a while you just break and want to finally see some light. Perhaps Blizzard's writers either got to this stage, or they felt SC2 needed that stage - to have some uplifting message after all this tragedy.
Don't get me wrong, I recognise that having the bad guys win all the time is boring. But after the ending of WoL (which, I was fine with as the first part of a trilogy) I thought they would go all empire strikes back in Heart of the Swarm. And yet we have a woman responsible for billions of deaths being completely forgiven, teaming up with one of the few real good guys (who vowed to kill her) and then taking out one of the main antagonists. I expected both Mengsk and Kerrigan to get what's coming to them eventually, but not like this - with one "redeemed" and the other having a cliched death.

And don't even get me started on what they've done to the overmind...it was completely unnecessary to change its motives apart from COOL PLOT TWIST WE'RE SO CLEVER

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  #38  
Old 12-15-2010, 03:33 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Come on, Jim really needed something finally going his way. That's why I was so satisfied with ending of WoL - because this guy had so much against him, that when he is finally happy - even if just for a split second - you're happy with him.
And if I'd felt he'd earned it, I might. Or if I felt Kerrigan was remotely in-character I might. But I don't. Blizzard's just gotten so effing limp-wristed. The last twenty minutes of WoL are one 'fuck yeah!' moment after another, and it's EXHAUSTING. There isn't a single 'we're fucked' moment in the entire damn campaign. There's no destruction of Dalaran, no overrunning of Kerrigan on Tarsonis, no Stukov's death... I mean Raynor kills Tychus but by that point who even cares really? I love the character, but their confrontation there is just nonsensical.

This isn't 'the good guys win'. This is... the good guys win and win and win and win, and the only villainous victories are pure peripheral. It's through no action of Kerrigan that she is victorious. She never does anything particularly clever or menacing or powerful.

They're trying to trip us up with their happy endings, and it's just irritating.

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Blizzard's stories has always been cheesy and corny. Always. If you don't like that, what are you still doing there?
They weren't that cheesy, though. There was an ELEMENT of grit and realism to them.
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  #39  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Atomic_Piggy View Post
The Overmind being a misunderstood good guy (Tassadar - whos not dead - even praises its courage).
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And don't even get me started on what they've done to the overmind...it was completely unnecessary to change its motives apart from COOL PLOT TWIST WE'RE SO CLEVER
It was even stated at Blizzcon that the revelations about the Overmind aren't meant to turn it into some kind of good guy or make the zerg out to have been noble. From start to finish, the zerg always the same revenous Swarm driven by the same Overmind's underlying fanatical impetus to forcibly incorporate the strongest species they could find into the Swarm and exterminating those which offered no benefit. The change is that the single-minded, obsessive fixation upon the Protoss specifically was imposed upon the Overmind.

Which in a way it even makes a sinister sense from the beginning, since when one examines it the Protoss shouldn't have even qualified. Based solely upon its instinctive desire to improve the Swarm, one would have actually expected the Overmind to dismiss the Protoss due to its own creators having deemed them a fundamentally failed creation with an impure essence that fell short of the perfection they sought. Not to mention the very nature of psionically communal, yet still individualized Protoss evolution and the Khala is really pretty incompatible with the centralized hivemind of the Swarm.

Really, the greatest strengths of the Protoss are basically opposed by their very nature to that of the zerg. What use would the innately hierarchy-based hivemind of the Swarm have for a communal mind link in which every individual is an equal presence among the whole? The assimilation wouldn't have worked, as to consume them and even remain the zerg Swarm at all would mean not incorporating the very things that gave the Protoss their strength. There's no room for an Overmind in the Khala, because it literally is a linking of independent minds. The Protoss derive much of their evolutionary strength from their particular form of psionic interaction and energy, and that very thing wouldn't really even work within the Swarm.

That's the revelation: rather than simply spreading of its own accord, devouring and assimilating new races as it went to improve the zerg (which it was created to do), the Overmind instead found itself pointed at an impossible goal instigated for the purpose of making sure that the zerg clashed with the Protoss and allowed for other agencies to step in and take over the hybridization of the two. The very fact that the Swarm couldn't even infest Protoss as it could terrans shows that even had it remained alive on Aiur, the Overmind probably never could have successfully assimilated the Protoss as it seemed intent upon doing. Only the intervention of other forces has allowed for the merger of the two, and even then the results are hardly perfect (it's not like there's one ideal Hybrid with the best of both races; one's clearly more Protoss in nature and the other is more like the zerg, as if even the Dark Voice's minions can't really manage a truly balance merger of the two). When it comes down to it, the Xel'Naga themselves are probably the only ones who could effect a true merger of the two races, and so every other attempt is producing imperfectly blended Hybrids that skew one way or the other.

There's no reason to think the Overmind cared what otherwise might become of the terrans or Protoss. It only cared that the zerg were being steered toward slavery and eventual destruction, and wasn't some noble self-sacrificing martyr looking to save the universe. It created Kerrigan expressly to free the zerg and protect the Swarm from the fate it would suffer if left subject to the Fallen One's designs.
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  #40  
Old 12-16-2010, 07:57 AM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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You feel Kerrigan had not earned her victory? Sure she hadn't, after all we haven't seen her campaign yet. Who knows what are we pited against in HoS. I bet Dark Voice mind-struggling with Kerrigan over the Swarm will be a huge plot point (mainly to enable Zerg vs Zerg missions).

About all-win campaign for Raynor - there's hardly any room there for a big loss without forcing it, really. Where would they have that "oh fuck" moment? The way whole story is structured, the only dark points (and how dark!) are the prophecy and "piercing the shroud", where we learn Mengsk has something to do with the hybrid project. We know the end is coming, there's your grit, if you really like it.
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  #41  
Old 12-16-2010, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Xarthat View Post
where we learn Mengsk has something to do with the hybrid project.
At BlizzCon 2010, Metzen (unless he was lying, or misleading us) said that this was not the case, or at least this had nothing to do with Tychus Findlay's attempted assassination of Kerrigan. From the hints he gave, I deduce that the Dominion forces have something to do with the Hybrids, but Mengsk personally does not have a part in the Dark Voice's plans.
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  #42  
Old 12-16-2010, 04:33 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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You feel Kerrigan had not earned her victory?
I didn't say anything about Kerrigan. I feel Raynor hasn't earned his victory. He hardly did anything. It's a problem with their story structure really (the plot can't 'build' as it were, because everything has to be really vague and has to be able to lead into everything else.) So for me personally it was really unsatisfying.

Quote:
About all-win campaign for Raynor - there's hardly any room there for a big loss without forcing it, really. Where would they have that "oh fuck" moment? The way whole story is structured, the only dark points (and how dark!) are the prophecy and "piercing the shroud", where we learn Mengsk has something to do with the hybrid project. We know the end is coming, there's your grit, if you really like it.
It's vague and irritating. It's not remotely visceral in the slightest. That's the whole problem, the whole storyline is just too flowery and big and grand. There's no room for any small personal torment except Raynor's despair over Kerrigan, which doesn't even fit that well with his last interaction with her.

Like I said, in the original game you had Zeratul's killing of Raszagal, you had Stukov's death. There was a lot of personal tragedy. I guess I just think dealing with Kerrigan's transformation in Wings of Liberty was just kind of stupid. We went through all that in the original StarCraft all right. It was decided, she's a traitorous bitch who'll do anything to get her way. Backpedaling on that in Wings of Liberty is just unnecessary.
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  #43  
Old 12-18-2010, 03:26 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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O good god how did I missed this one?

I mean are you effing kidding me?

if this is the real ending, then Mengsk should let go of the idiot ball.

First on WoL he has Tychus hijacked yet he is perfectly okay with him parading with the Odin trough his streets and we he doesnt find his son (which incidentally is accompaning Jim Raynor who is accompaning Tychus) he doesnt think it would be wise to check on Tychus...

Yet when he does check it is too damned late and he cant do jackshit.

Now on HotS he has Kerrigan rigged to blow... yet he waits until she is storming the castle to bring it up... nice maybe if you had done it in the end of broodwar you could have... you know... avoided having your flee pwned for teh lulz, or maybe at least kill her.

And also WTF the zerg are not the scourge man, they werent cure and friendly shit that got turned into maniacal monsters against their will, or at least the ones that were are LONG gone, shit do the zerglings have a digestive system? why would they? they dont have sexes either because THEY DONT NEED THAT SHIT!

Its like my toaster really, I plug it in and it toasts my bread.

YET

Somehow if an AI suddenly unplugged that toaster... it has feelings and wishes and an intelligence that had been supressed all this time.

Jesus this stuff just keeps getting worse and worse, Cerebrates and the Overmind were labeled as the common concience of every zerg, there is no I in the zerg.

And guess what when the overmind died... did the zerg just went on their merry way to populate planets?

No because thats not what they do, unless the remaining cerebrates somehow supressed and enslaved their poor free will.

I mean, man really?
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  #44  
Old 12-18-2010, 04:08 PM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

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O good god how did I missed this one?

I mean are you effing kidding me?

if this is the real ending, then Mengsk should let go of the idiot ball.

First on WoL he has Tychus hijacked yet he is perfectly okay with him parading with the Odin trough his streets and we he doesnt find his son (which incidentally is accompaning Jim Raynor who is accompaning Tychus) he doesnt think it would be wise to check on Tychus...
I'd say Mengsk intended for all of that to happen in order to get Tychus to get the shot at Kerrigan. The Odin rampage he didn't see, but everything else can be speculated as being his manipulations.
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  #45  
Old 12-19-2010, 02:44 AM
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I mean, man really?
Very probably yes.

Still, what worries me is the campaign, not the ending. Depending on the campaign, this ending might be awesome.

Or it might suck like hell.

What I mean is, I want to see Kerrigan slaughtering people, and a lot of tragedy.

I don't want her on picnic with Raynor .
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  #46  
Old 12-19-2010, 08:18 AM
xie323 xie323 is offline

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Very probably yes.

Still, what worries me is the campaign, not the ending. Depending on the campaign, this ending might be awesome.

Or it might suck like hell.

What I mean is, I want to see Kerrigan slaughtering people, and a lot of tragedy.

I don't want her on picnic with Raynor .
Don't blame Blizz for what is happening, blame the current state of the world, which is a unoptimistic and pessimistic mood, causing many people to feel that despite what is happening, they should cheer up their audience when writing fiction.

Like I said, if the state of the world was more optimistic, the ending would be a hell lot darker.
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  #47  
Old 12-19-2010, 05:06 PM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

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four things;

from what we see the detonator could be a close range device (ie they have to be within the same room).

Also, if Kerrigan is queen of the zerg, she's calling the shots, and if she goes, her successors are calling the shots (if her words are literal). Her only point is that the Dark Voice's hold has been forever broken.

Also, Raynor has to fight for his victory every step of the way; he and his crew face the full fury of the zerg, and the first two missions are simply to ensure that they have a fighting chance. Finally, the "queen bitch of the universe" routine wouldn't go anywhere. At this point, keepin Kerrigan evil would be blatant rehashing, and there would be nothing fresh. The only real route that wouldn't be rehashing would be to have kerrigan redeem herself. Kerrigan coming to terms with her guilt over the atrocities she committed, combined with battling the darkness in her soul and rehabilitating the zerg so that they won't killinate everything, offers a lot of storytelling potential. As such, I enjoy the ending (i take it that by this point kerrigan has finally come to terms with what she's done and instead hopes to work towards redemption), and await the inevitable battle between kerrigan and the dark voice in starcraft 3.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:14 AM
xie323 xie323 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol'Yoggy View Post
four things;

from what we see the detonator could be a close range device (ie they have to be within the same room).

Also, if Kerrigan is queen of the zerg, she's calling the shots, and if she goes, her successors are calling the shots (if her words are literal). Her only point is that the Dark Voice's hold has been forever broken.

Also, Raynor has to fight for his victory every step of the way; he and his crew face the full fury of the zerg, and the first two missions are simply to ensure that they have a fighting chance. Finally, the "queen bitch of the universe" routine wouldn't go anywhere. At this point, keepin Kerrigan evil would be blatant rehashing, and there would be nothing fresh. The only real route that wouldn't be rehashing would be to have kerrigan redeem herself. Kerrigan coming to terms with her guilt over the atrocities she committed, combined with battling the darkness in her soul and rehabilitating the zerg so that they won't killinate everything, offers a lot of storytelling potential. As such, I enjoy the ending (i take it that by this point kerrigan has finally come to terms with what she's done and instead hopes to work towards redemption), and await the inevitable battle between kerrigan and the dark voice in starcraft 3.

Nah, there won't be a SC3 the story might be resolved in Legacy of the Void
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:59 AM
Kalenvor Kalenvor is offline

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Why is everyone getting so hyped up over this ending and the ending of WoL? First of all, WoL wasn't THAT bad. As many have already said, it's about time Raynor had something go right for him. My only beef was that they went the route of Kerrigan and Raynor's love affair, which I felt they only hinted at in the first game. Second of all, reguarding HotS, you guys have seen a short, early version, pre-vis of the FINAL ending cinematic... for all we know this may have been the absolute first draft and the ending might not even be the same anymore... And even if this IS the definitive ending of HotS, we have abolutely no clue how we come to arrive at this ending. There are tons of unanswered questions as to how all of this will end up culminating in what we saw in the video. Third, and probably the most important, is the fact that HotS is only the second chapter in the SC2 saga. You still have to remember that after HotS, that is still probably atleast a year out, we have LotV to look forward to. Reguardless of what happens in HotS I can almost guarantee that the final showdown against the Dark Voice and the Hybrids isn't going to be all "win win win win" or all happy endings like WoL was... I'm leaning toward the idea that Blizzard is hyping us up with happy endings and a false sense of victory only to make the final chapter the true down and dirty SC that we all came to know and love with the original SC and Brood War. Who knows, we may very well end up seeing some incarnation of that epic battle between all of the Protoss heroes and the Hybrids, which didn't end well at all for the Protoss...

Last edited by Kalenvor; 12-29-2010 at 09:02 AM..
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:22 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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VAs are usually called in well past the first draft. Their time is valuable and expensive and they don't work on video game developers' schedules, so the fact that cinematic was mostly voiced shows that's almost definitely going to be the final ending.
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