Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Lore Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-07-2010, 09:44 AM
chthonical chthonical is offline

Dryad
chthonical's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 157

Post Is Sylvanas under the influence of Detheroc?

Detheroc, the nathrezim brother most skilled in the art of mental domination and the only one unaccounted for to this day. Do you think he or some other entity is puppeteering Sylvanas Windrunner? Or is she just turning into a mind-enslaving bitch of her own accord?
__________________
A.K.A. Grimhound
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-07-2010, 09:56 AM
Shaman Shaman is offline

Site Staff - Admin
Shaman's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448

Undead Icon (War3)

I'm not sure, but something is definitely up with Sylvanas. Not only are the fans saying it, but even Blizzard are saying in official material(the new community site, Blue posts and in-game NPCs) that something has changed within Sylvanas. She's definitely being set up for something significant and I'm guessing she's going to be a villain soon.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-07-2010, 09:58 AM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

Eternal
Xarthat's Avatar
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Second World Shithole
Posts: 3,864
BattleTag: Kalontas#2949

Default

I don't know where did you get the idea that Detheroc is responsible. Not always someobody is behind a change, she might have changed on her own.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-07-2010, 10:50 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 34,378
BattleTag: Omacron#1477

Default

I always just assumed all of her current efforts were her overcompensating.

Think about it. Prior to WotLK, her core ethos and the unifying goal of the Forsaken was killing Arthas. Well he's dead. Now she's confused and looking for a new place in life, and she's found that in regional conquest.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-07-2010, 11:28 AM
Reyson Reyson is offline

Arch-Druid
Reyson's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,174

Default

Why on earth would Sylvanas become a villain, now that she's really acting as herself? While it's no secret that I like the new Sylvanas, but I really don't see enough evidence to warrant her a villain.

- Garrosh doesn't like her, but he doesn't like Vol'jin either...I doubt he made any non-orc friends since he got out of Nagrand.
- Her Val'kyr make her more 'lich kingy', but then again, it's the plotline to make new Forsaken. If they cut that out, they have to redo the starting area again. Nevermind that Silverpine, WPL and practicly every Forsaken questline that mentions her would need to be redone.
Some might argue that this could be seen as in the past, but I'ld find it rather odd that you'ld have 40ish lvls about how great Sylvanas is for her people, how mighty the Forsaken have become thanks to Sylvanas finding a solution to their plight, only to have her become evil...at what? lvl85-90? It would make the Forsaken leadership explained even worse than the Blood Elf one. Only knowing the new leader of your faction at a very late stage in the game is just a bad idea.
- "She brainwashes Koltira Deathweaver!" sure, but Garrosh throws the commanders that failed off a cliff(stonetalon), or send a new guy to 'replace' them(S. Barrens). We don't exactly know the extent to her 'brainwashing', he might still keep his own mind.
- She has 2 WMDs(Val'kyr & Blight) at her disposal! The Val'kyr have shown to have a clear weakness(only works vs 1 race), making its power significantly less overpowered. The Blight has many opposers, which really restricts its use in warfare. Even Sylvanas isn't too fond of it, because she wants to show the power of their people, using the Blight isn't exactly the best way to do that. It's shown that they use it as a last resort(Gilneas) and realise the big downsides of using it(Southshore).

Beyond the fact that many zones would have to be redone, there's another big reason why Sylvanas shouldn't become a villain: It's all been done before..twice, noone is waiting for another Lich King/Queen..or a Battle for Undercity 2: the Banshee Queen strikes back.
With Thrall gone, Cairne dead, Lor'themar being unknown,uncared for, Gallywix being despised by his own people and Vol'jin treated as a second-hand leader, Sylvanas is -probably- the most-liked leader within the Horde. Making her a villain would upset many players.

Oh, and who's going to replace her? Lilian Voss(the popculture reference), Koltira Deathweaver(who isn't even a Forsaken) or Nathanos Blightcaller(who was probably meant to be killed off and whose only feat was a questchain in vanilla)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietzsche
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-07-2010, 11:35 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Aldrius's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,026

Default

No, she is definitely not under Detheroc's control.

I also see nothing about her changing on the official site, other than her 'fortifying her territory in the Tirisfal Glades'. But everyone's kind of doing that. Garrosh, Varian, Tyrande even Jaina.

It bears repeating that she's really more in-character now than she's ever been in WoW. Just because she's being ruthless and callous doesn't mean she's being set up for a fall. Not everyone has to be a damn saint. Especially the... undead racial leader. I mean what do you expect?
__________________
"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-07-2010, 11:54 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

Guru of Gilneas
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,288

Default

Hasn't Blizzard also mentioned on that the whereabouts of Frostmourne is still unaccounted for?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-07-2010, 12:03 PM
chthonical chthonical is offline

Dryad
chthonical's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 157

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reyson View Post
- "She brainwashes Koltira Deathweaver!" sure, but Garrosh throws the commanders that failed off a cliff(stonetalon)
Uh, Garrosh threw the guy off a cliff because he committed mass murder. It was an act pretty clearly designed to send the message to the rest of his subordinates: Don't be an asshole, or I will throw you off a cliff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
No, she is definitely not under Detheroc's control.

I also see nothing about her changing on the official site, other than her 'fortifying her territory in the Tirisfal Glades'. But everyone's kind of doing that. Garrosh, Varian, Tyrande even Jaina.

It bears repeating that she's really more in-character now than she's ever been in WoW. Just because she's being ruthless and callous doesn't mean she's being set up for a fall. Not everyone has to be a damn saint. Especially the... undead racial leader. I mean what do you expect?
There is a defected apothecary in the Eastern Plaguelands who talks about how much she's changed and how she's gone effing bonkers.

EDIT:
Here we go:

Argent Apothecary Judkins:
Quote:
I once worked for the so-called "Banshee-Queen", Sylvanas, as an apothecary. I used to admire her, but something's changed within her. She's not herself anymore.

I broke my vows with the Forsaken and joined the Crusade. Now, I use my knowledge of alchemy to seek a counter-plague agent. And the Plaguewood is the perfect place to do so.

I need to resupply a few reagents, any of which can be found within the Plaguewood. I'll pay you if you can find any of these items.
__________________
A.K.A. Grimhound

Last edited by chthonical; 12-07-2010 at 12:14 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-07-2010, 12:16 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Aldrius's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,026

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chthonical View Post
Uh, Garrosh threw the guy off a cliff because he committed mass murder. It was an act pretty clearly designed to send the message to the rest of his subordinates: Don't be an asshole, or I will throw you off a cliff.
And Sylvanas mind-controlled an insubordinate general.

Quote:
There is a defected apothecary in the Eastern Plaguelands who talks about how much she's changed and how she's gone effing bonkers.
I know all about that. It makes no sense. Especially for a member of the RAS to say that. Sheesh.
__________________
"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-07-2010, 12:59 PM
Slowpokeking
Guest
Posts: n/a

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
And Sylvanas mind-controlled an insubordinate general.



I know all about that. It makes no sense. Especially for a member of the RAS to say that. Sheesh.
She got a much better general but chose to let him stay home train hunters.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-07-2010, 01:02 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,527

PvP Symbol - Horde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
She got a much better general but chose to let him stay home train hunters.
He can never become a major player again because the Alliance would complain they'd already killed him.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-07-2010, 01:13 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Aldrius's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,026

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
He can never become a major player again because the Alliance would complain they'd already killed him.
Oh, he could. I don't know if he should, though. He had a cool attitude and whatnot... but it's not really that big a deal to be honest. I mean if Nathanos had been leading the charge at Andorhol would that have been nearly as interesting of a story?
__________________
"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-07-2010, 01:14 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,527

PvP Symbol - Horde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
Oh, he could. I don't know if he should, though. He had a cool attitude and whatnot... but it's not really that big a deal to be honest. I mean if Nathanos had been leading the charge at Andorhol would that have been nearly as interesting of a story?
... -yes- because he wouldn't have been Brofisting with Thassarian and they would've killed each other.

Blighthounds Vs. Lurid tyvm.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-07-2010, 01:18 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

Site Staff - Admin
Shaman's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448

Default

Sylvanas is being set up for something. I personally think it's to become a villain, but I can't be sure. But there is definitely some plan by Blizzard for her character.

Even before Cataclysm, most of the Horde dislike the Forsaken. The Wrath Gate incident gave merit to that opinion. People have said that Garrosh's disapproval of Sylvanas doesn't mean anything because he also attacks Vol'jin, but even Vol'jin doesn't seem to like Sylvanas! Thrall wasn't too happy about welcoming Sylvanas into the Horde and Drek'thar truly hates what the Forsaken are doing. And now that the Grimtotems are ostracized, there goes the Tauren support for the Forsaken. Garrosh's threat to Sylvanas seems to be foreshadowing for some future plot point.

Sylvanas' alliance with the val'kyr and her opinion that they are "the future" of their people indicates to me that they will be important in whatever is to happen to Sylvanas. The very fact that Sylvanas is being so aggressive, using the plague and recruiting a Scourge race to her group are very Lich King-esque. She's even slaying innocent people, resurrecting them and then forcing them to serve her is exactly the same reason why she hated Arthas. Even if she doesn't turn out to be "evil", she is at the very least a hypocrite. She's even proven herself to be too radical for members of her own royal apothecary!

There's also a difference that must be made between what Garrosh did to Krom'gar and what Sylvanas did to Koltira. Krom'gar is purposefully set up to be as despicable and as villainous as any standard enemy we fight. Koltira on the other hand is a relatively popular character. Garrosh was trying to show that the Horde should behave honorably. Sylvanas on the other hand is basically just enslaving people she doesn't like and behaving very much like a tyrant. The fact that Thassarian specifically states that he will make Sylvanas pay has to mean that Blizzard are planning some kind of confrontation with Sylvanas.

Her claim that she's just trying to defend her people and secure "her" kingdom is also hollow. If she was trying to do that, then what business does she have in trying to take over the Hinterlands? Even before the Forsaken were around, the Hinterlands were never considered part of Teranas' Lordaeron and the undead have absolutely no business being there other than to be aggressors. The Alliance doing so poorly in Gilneas, Western Plaguelands and Hillsbrad indicates to me there must be some kind of inevitable pushback that settles the balance of power.

There's no way that what's been happening in Northern Lordaeron is trivial. It all seems to be leading up to something, something that has to involve the Banshee Queen. I personally think that she is either going to turn on the Horde, or, that a separate combination of the Horde and Alliance leadership will turn on her.

TL;DR: Sylvanas has malicious intentions and is pursuing an unknown agenda for whatever reason.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-07-2010, 01:25 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Aldrius's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,026

Default

Quote:
The Alliance doing so poorly in Gilneas, Western Plaguelands and Hillsbrad indicates to me there must be some kind of inevitable pushback that settles the balance of power.
That wouldn't be settling the balance of power. The Forsaken started off with influence in 3 zones. That's spread to 7. That's still not a whole hell of a lot of zones.

Quote:
TL;DR: Sylvanas has malicious intentions and is pursuing an unknown agenda for whatever reason.
What are you so confused about? She wants control. She wants control to protect her people, but she wants control more than anything else. And it's war, why wouldn't she be invading enemy territory?
__________________
"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were."
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-07-2010, 01:41 PM
chthonical chthonical is offline

Dryad
chthonical's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 157

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
What are you so confused about? She wants control. She wants control to protect her people, but she wants control more than anything else. And it's war, why wouldn't she be invading enemy territory?
Last I knew she wanted to exterminate the living.

Also, anyone else notice how she went all post-WW2 science looting spree on Arthas' plagueworks?
__________________
A.K.A. Grimhound
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-07-2010, 01:45 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Aldrius's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,026

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chthonical View Post
Last I knew she wanted to exterminate the living.
She's never actually said that outright. There's some stuff that implies that, but it's hardly concrete.
__________________
"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were."
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-07-2010, 04:20 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

Elune
Ashendant's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Portugal
Posts: 15,557
BattleTag: Ashendant#2130

Default

Why only the horde gets to loot research and innovation...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-07-2010, 04:52 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 34,378
BattleTag: Omacron#1477

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
Why only the horde gets to loot research and innovation...
The gnomes got to pick through the LK's sciency stuff, too.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-07-2010, 06:24 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

Guru of Gilneas
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,288

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
Oh, he could. I don't know if he should, though. He had a cool attitude and whatnot... but it's not really that big a deal to be honest. I mean if Nathanos had been leading the charge at Andorhol would that have been nearly as interesting of a story?
Yes, because the one with Thassarian and Koltira is not that interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
Why only the horde gets to loot research and innovation...
Dwarven Explorer's League.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-07-2010, 06:52 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

Elune
Ashendant's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Portugal
Posts: 15,557
BattleTag: Ashendant#2130

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Yes, because the one with Thassarian and Koltira is not that interesting.

Dwarven Explorer's League.
They just put old things on display there not actual research and innovation there
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-07-2010, 07:28 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Aldrius's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,026

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Yes, because the one with Thassarian and Koltira is not that interesting.
Well. That depends on your point of view really.

I haven't actually done it yet, though, but I can't see how Nathanos would be any better.
__________________
"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were."
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-07-2010, 07:32 PM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Yuber8900's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,660

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldriud View Post
Well. That depends on your point of view really.

I haven't actually done it yet, though, but I can't see how Nathanos would be any better.
Because he's not Kolitra.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-08-2010, 02:30 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

Guru of Gilneas
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,288

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuber8900 View Post
Because he's not Kolitra.
Pretty much. Koltira is the Aquaman of Death Knights.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-08-2010, 07:20 AM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

Eternal
Royalpimp's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,575

Shadow Orb

Koltira is awesome, you're just jealous -.-
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
And Lordaeron

ffs I'm the only one who cares aren't I
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
And that is the Drama to being part of the Horde. There are people out there who want you dead. You honestly can’t blame them. Do you lie down and die for them? No. You enjoy the challenge. You keep your head up and move forward.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.