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  #9601  
Old 10-02-2014, 06:02 AM
Yakitori Yakitori is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
I was always fond of Orgrimmar, Cataclysm-Orgrimmar especially. The Vanilla-incarnation always felt a lot more bare, no doubt about that, but even back in the day Stormwind's human architecture that was so... hm, 'common' to fantasy did even then feel a bit overdone and samey. Orgrimmar felt like something more unique and colourful with its multiple tiers (hi Old Ironforge), the much more primitive design. It certainly lacked for details no doubt about that though.

I'd love Thunder Bluff but the awful bridge system really soured it for me prior to flying.
I think it's a matter of taste; Org was okay, but it felt very empty from a NPC and even structure point of view. Most of the buildings were tucked in against the walls of the canyon, with the exceptions being stuff like the Bank and the Flight Point Tower, and... it definitely didn't feel like a real city. Stormwind, for as generic as it could be, at least had actual people walking around and talking, and felt like a city. Like, I can remember at least three separate places to set my hearth, and even after Cata, I think they replaced one (it was in the Park) with the new inn out in the Dwarven District. The only cities that really came close to matching that kind of... living feeling before Cata for the Horde were Undercity (which got the people part down, but... yeah, the inn was an alcove) and Silvermoon.

Honestly, Org got worse to some extent with Cata; it definitely got several improvements, but it also felt like a bigger nightmare to try and get around. I'm weird like that.

Ironforge is still my favorite city, though.
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  #9602  
Old 10-02-2014, 06:03 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
I was always fond of Orgrimmar, Cataclysm-Orgrimmar especially. The Vanilla-incarnation always felt a lot more bare, no doubt about that, but even back in the day Stormwind's human architecture that was so... hm, 'common' to fantasy did even then feel a bit overdone and samey. Orgrimmar felt like something more unique and colourful with its multiple tiers (hi Old Ironforge), the much more primitive design. It certainly lacked for details no doubt about that though.
My main gripe with Orgrimmar (both versions, but especially Vanilla) is, really, it could've been any Orcish settlement on Kalimdor. It was larger (gameplay wise, obviously) but it really didn't stand out especially. Post-Cata version is better, because it feels more like the "warrior city" it was supposed to be, but it still lacks many (any?) standout features. There's nothing even close to Stormwind's Cathedral or Darnassus' Temple of the Moon.

It's a tough act to balance, I freely admit, Blizzard would, no doubt, be flamed by some part of the community regardless of which way they went. Personally, I like the fact the capitals aren't just mirrors of each other, that's both bland and boring as fuck. But there is a real issue of Orgrimmar being lacking in "unique" when compared to, really, all the Alliance capitals. They all have a special feel and/or unique design here and there.

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I'd love Thunder Bluff but the awful bridge system really soured it for me prior to flying.


I'd just about forgotten the bridges. Everyone flies these days but yes, fair point all the same.
  #9603  
Old 10-02-2014, 06:55 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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So I did some thinking and realised Spec Ops: The Line (good game, avoid the following if you don't want spoilers) is a pretty good 'comparison' to the Horde storyline if it had been written half-competently given the 'why do we fight?' line they kept shoving down our throats.

Walker: "What happened here was out of my control..."
Konrad: "Was it? None of this would happen if you just stopped, and on you marched... and for what?"
Walker: "We- we tried to save you-"
Konrad: "You're no saviour. Your talents lie elsewhere."
Walker: "This isn't my fault."
Konrad: "It takes a strong man to deny what's right in front of him and if the truth is undeniable? You create your own.

The truth Walker is that you're here because you wanted to feel like something you're not: A Hero. I'm here because you can't accept what you've done. It broke you. You needed someone to blame, so you cast it on me; a dead man.

I know the truth is hard to hear Walker, but it's time. You're all that's left, and we can't live this lie forever."

-Konrad aims a gun at Walker-

I'm going to count to five, then I'm pulling the trigger.
Walker: You're not real... this is all in my head...
Konrad: Are you sure? Maybe it's in mine? One.
Walker: No... everything, all this, it was YOUR fault!
Konrad: If that's what you believe then shoot me! Two!
Walker: I didn't mean to hurt anybody...
Konrad: Noone ever does Walker. Three!

-Walker shoots 'Konrad'-

Konrad: It takes a strong man to deny what's right in front of him...
Walker: Stronger than you were.
Konrad: Whatever you say, Walker. No matter what happens next don't be too hard on yourself. After all, even after all you've done... you can still go home...

...Lucky you."
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Last edited by Drusus; 10-02-2014 at 07:05 AM..
  #9604  
Old 10-02-2014, 07:46 AM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
(hi Old Ironforge)
...



WHY.

WHY BLIZZARD WHY.

WHY DID YOU CARE ABOUT STUPID INCOMPETENT ARSEHOLES WHO COULDN'T FIND THEIR WAY OUT OF A PAPERBAG.

YOU STILL KEPT UNDERCITY THE SAME.

WHYYY

gief old ironforge back
  #9605  
Old 10-02-2014, 12:57 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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...hey, I think I summoned Ferlion back. That's cool. I was trying for Cthulhu, but whatever.
Saying my name three times in front of a mirror at the chime of midnight on the eve of thine own day of birth will summon me forth to exact revenge upon one soul of your own choice....for a price, of course, which must one pay in full by the 7th day of the 7th year, afore darkly dressed debtsmen rap persistently upon your head.
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  #9606  
Old 10-02-2014, 05:23 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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I don't know if this makes any sense but I kind wonder if Tauren should have continued being a nomadic race without a city whereas Trolls would be the race with a large sprawling city because they're trying to piece together a proper civilization once again.
  #9607  
Old 10-02-2014, 05:36 PM
Valtheria Valtheria is offline

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Originally Posted by Thunderbraid View Post
YOU STILL KEPT UNDERCITY THE SAME.
While this is true, no one really does anything with the upper part of Undercity. Not even on RP servers.

Personally, I wish both Old Ironforge and the upper ring of the Undercity had been fleshed out. Perhaps with the Ethereals, Honor, and Justice Vendors that really should be standard in every hub, not just the two faction hubs.
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  #9608  
Old 10-02-2014, 05:44 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
I'd love Thunder Bluff but the awful bridge system really soured it for me prior to flying.
The Tauren zones are/were boring as hell. So much green!
  #9609  
Old 10-02-2014, 05:50 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
The Tauren zones are/were boring as hell. So much green!
I love standing in Mulgore and taking in the sights. Reminds me of Cuzco, and although I hated Cuzco and the f****** mountains surrounding it, I am still quite fond of the remembrance.
  #9610  
Old 10-02-2014, 06:33 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
The Tauren zones are/were boring as hell. So much green!
I don't know. I think Mulgore has its novelty in that it's a wide open, bare plain, but is also very cozy and safe (aesthetically anyway, pre-Cataclysm the wildlife was a nightmare). It's one of the zones in WoW I think gets way too overlooked. There's just something so simple about it that's brilliant: no trees, no hills, very little civilisation, untouched by anything really and it's better for it. The roaming kodo herds that cross the whole zone also add a brilliant sense of immersion that feels so much superior to mobs walking in circles despite it actually just being that mechanically.

I also love how Thunder Bluff just overlooks the plains. It's rare these days that WoW feels truly like a 'world' any more and TB gives the impression there's something wider out there as opposed to claustrophobic walls.
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you're the edgemaster 9000 with the leet memes who's close second to Gurzog in shitposting.

Last edited by Drusus; 10-02-2014 at 06:37 PM..
  #9611  
Old 10-02-2014, 06:44 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
The Tauren zones are/were boring as hell. So much green!
To be fair, it's one zone where Baine will ever do something badass for the rest of his tenure as a faction leader.
  #9612  
Old 10-02-2014, 07:16 PM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Orgrimmar might be comparatively tiny, but you have to remember what else the Horde gained in Cataclysm. Echo Isles, Azshara, Andorhal, the Horde got the lion's share (no pun intended) of the Cata update.
  #9613  
Old 10-03-2014, 01:41 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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I don't know. I think Mulgore has its novelty in that it's a wide open, bare plain, but is also very cozy and safe (aesthetically anyway, pre-Cataclysm the wildlife was a nightmare). It's one of the zones in WoW I think gets way too overlooked. There's just something so simple about it that's brilliant: no trees, no hills, very little civilisation, untouched by anything really and it's better for it. The roaming kodo herds that cross the whole zone also add a brilliant sense of immersion that feels so much superior to mobs walking in circles despite it actually just being that mechanically.

I also love how Thunder Bluff just overlooks the plains. It's rare these days that WoW feels truly like a 'world' any more and TB gives the impression there's something wider out there as opposed to claustrophobic walls.
This.

It's far from perfect but it's certainly one of my favourite zones from an aesthetic point of view.
  #9614  
Old 10-05-2014, 03:31 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
I don't know if this makes any sense but I kind wonder if Tauren should have continued being a nomadic race without a city whereas Trolls would be the race with a large sprawling city because they're trying to piece together a proper civilization once again.
This 100%.

But My stance on how the factions should've been is with the dwarves in charge of the Alliance due to the humans being royally fucked and the goblins as the race with the most man power in the Horde but still lead by the orcs as a minority. Too bad they instead went for billions of orcs being pulled out of the nether.
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  #9615  
Old 10-05-2014, 06:28 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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This 100%.

But My stance on how the factions should've been is with the dwarves in charge of the Alliance due to the humans being royally fucked and the goblins as the race with the most man power in the Horde but still lead by the orcs as a minority. Too bad they instead went for billions of orcs being pulled out of the nether.
Ironforge more or less 'led' the Alliance in Vanilla, it just wasn't shoved down our throats so much back then because the Alliance was more like an Alliance that lacked a central figure head.

Shame about that. But yeah, WoD could have been perfect to give the Dwarves some screen time. Who's already been on Draenor? Y'know, Kudran, and he's not busy being neutral like Khadgar, though I'm sure if he was human we'd have seen him a lot more.
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you're the edgemaster 9000 with the leet memes who's close second to Gurzog in shitposting.
  #9616  
Old 10-05-2014, 06:40 AM
Insipid_Lobster Insipid_Lobster is offline

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Originally Posted by Thunderbraid View Post
...

<Snippety snap>

WHY.

WHY BLIZZARD WHY.

WHY DID YOU CARE ABOUT STUPID INCOMPETENT ARSEHOLES WHO COULDN'T FIND THEIR WAY OUT OF A PAPERBAG.

YOU STILL KEPT UNDERCITY THE SAME.

WHYYY

gief old ironforge back
Are we ranting about changed zones and inaccessible areas? C-can I join in?
  #9617  
Old 10-05-2014, 06:41 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
Ironforge more or less 'led' the Alliance in Vanilla, it just wasn't shoved down our throats so much back then because the Alliance was more like an Alliance that lacked a central figure head.
All of this, and <channels Shao Khan> it was glorious.

Quote:
Shame about that. But yeah, WoD could have been perfect to give the Dwarves some screen time. Who's already been on Draenor? Y'know, Kudran, and he's not busy being neutral like Khadgar, though I'm sure if he was human we'd have seen him a lot more.
Kurdran not being involved is indeed beyond fucking retarded.
  #9618  
Old 10-05-2014, 06:52 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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All of this, and <channels Shao Khan> it was glorious.
I remember when people actually requested Stormwind be used more often. Of course, back then getting stuck in Ironforge all the time - however I'm sick of Stormwind now - was something of a valid point. At least back then, once all cities had Auction Houses, it was totally fine to put your Hearthstone in whatever city you wanted. I'm actually not a huge fan of Ironforge as a city, it's just you now have to flop between them so much/end up in the Shrine I still appreciate it.

I always found it weird how they went on about "We want to make it all about Azeroth and not just one big city!"... but instead of just adding Cataclysm portals to all cities, they just did it in Stormwind/Orgrimmar because Blizzard logic.

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Kurdran not being involved is indeed beyond fucking retarded.
"Isn't Kudran dead? From, err, from Fire and Iron?"
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  #9619  
Old 10-05-2014, 06:56 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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"Isn't Kudran dead? From, err, from Fire and Iron?"
MFW this is actually what CDev likely believe.

  #9620  
Old 10-05-2014, 11:18 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Thunderbraid View Post
...



WHY.

WHY BLIZZARD WHY.

WHY DID YOU CARE ABOUT STUPID INCOMPETENT ARSEHOLES WHO COULDN'T FIND THEIR WAY OUT OF A PAPERBAG.

YOU STILL KEPT UNDERCITY THE SAME.

WHYYY

gief old ironforge back
Nah they changed Undercity too.
  #9621  
Old 10-05-2014, 04:30 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Nah they changed Undercity too.
The difference is, you can now fly up there. It wasn't so much that they changed it beyond removing a way to get up.

Ironforge actually had its second level removed entirely.
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  #9622  
Old 10-07-2014, 11:17 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Garithos did nothing wrong.
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  #9623  
Old 10-09-2014, 10:40 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Garithos did nothing wrong.
Indeed. Just look at the belves and the Forsaken.
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  #9624  
Old 10-10-2014, 03:12 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Well, Blackhand is officially a tactical genius who recovered the Doomhammer himself and was blessed by the fire elements.

I'm... kind of torn. A part of me likes him getting built up. Another part of me feels like Orgrim turns into a bigger and bigger loser every year.
  #9625  
Old 10-10-2014, 03:47 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Well, Blackhand is officially a tactical genius who recovered the Doomhammer himself and was blessed by the fire elements.

I'm... kind of torn. A part of me likes him getting built up. Another part of me feels like Orgrim turns into a bigger and bigger loser every year.
Blackhand were described as a brute in the novels. More pawn than leader. I'm not entirely happy with his transformation.
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