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  #5676  
Old 06-07-2018, 05:45 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
As all Loa should, they probably ascended through worshipping.
Except his ascension is a total surprise to his people. Unless there’s a secret Vol’jin worshipping cult hiding in one jungle or another I think we can safely rule that out.
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  #5677  
Old 06-07-2018, 06:34 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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So there's some more broadcast text and stuff for the Mag'har. Can't access wowhead but saw this posted (and a search tells me its real). Its from Geya'rah.

There are draenei on this world?
<Geya'rah narrows her eyes.>
Not for long.


--

Sometimes I look at the draenei and wonder if there are bones in those fleshy face tentacles because if there are I would collect many hundreds and string them together into decorative strands that I would hang from our fortress walls so that visitors would marvel and say hey would you look at all those face tentacle bones I bet they were collected by a very very wise and talented orc and I would answer yes that is what my mother always told me.
I am sorry. Did you have a question?


Wew boy, particularly that last one.
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  #5678  
Old 06-07-2018, 07:54 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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I am sick of how Blizzard now treats the Light as something "evil"

Not everything has to be a "fine people on many sides" situation for fuck's sake.

Instead we get the Mag'har wanting to exterminate the Alliance because they dare have Draenei, the AU Draenei going space ISIS and more bullshit then ever about how the Light is secret evil now too.
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  #5679  
Old 06-07-2018, 08:09 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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http://www.wowhead.com/news=284844/b...aenei-spoilers

New Mag'har orc gossip text makes me think the draenei may not be the villains. Because really, orcs love to slaughter things when left unchecked.

Quote:
"I have fought many wars. Watched heroes and cowards alike bleed out on the field of battle.
But this war feels... different.
It tests more than our mettle and skill. It tests our hearts. Our faith in one another.
Whatever comes, the Horde will endure.
It must."

You have traveled far, $c. You may find our world to be even more savage now then it was when your people last set eyes upon it.

The Mag'har will bend to no one. Not even those we once called friends.

"Heroes from your world once freed me from a demon's grip in Hellfire Citadel. Were you among them?
<Grommash peers at you.>
If so, I owe you a great debt. Perhaps the spirits will show me a way to repay it."

Draenor must be free from the grip of fanatics and tyrants.

"Grommash Hellscream has led us well. I respect him as much as I did my father.
But if I ever see his traitor son again...
<Geya'rah spits on the ground.>
...I will end him."

"As a child, draenei scholars taught me to read and write. I liked them. Respected them.
Then the naaru came, and fanaticism took hold.
The draenei were reborn--no, they have a different word for it--re-forged in their precious Light.
Their belief blinds them, binds them to masters who seek to control the universe as surely as the Legion did.
Draenei... eredar... so willing to bend the knee. So prone to corruption."

"Overlord Geya'rah is the warchief's right hand. There is no braver orc on Draenor.
Nor on your world, outsider!"

If you earn the overlord's trust, you will earn mine.
Draenor will be free!
We bested the primals. We will bring down any foe.
If I catch any of those Lightbound traitors, I will slit their throats!

"You walk upon OUR world, outsider.
Should you bring corruption here, your life will be forfeit."

Those who challenge Warchief Hellscream will pay with their lives!

Is it time to set the Lightbound on fire yet?

"I miss the botani.
When you roasted them just right, they were DELICIOUS.
<Lasha wipes a trickle of drool from her lips.>"

"<Lasha fixes her gaze on your head.>
How's your skull? Does it fit?
Is your mind free... empty... or split?"

"Is it time to eat? I hope it is time to eat!
On another matter... if you had to choose a limb you could live without, which would it be?"

"Sometimes I look at the draenei and wonder if there are bones in those fleshy face tentacles because if there are I would collect many hundreds and string them together into decorative strands that I would hang from our fortress walls so that visitors would marvel and say hey would you look at all those face tentacle bones I bet they were collected by a very very wise and talented orc and I would answer yes that is what my mother always told me.
I am sorry. Did you have a question?"

"Flaying? It is a barbaric practice from long ago. Why, I would not even know how to begin such a ritual.
I know exactly how to begin. Are you here for a demonstration?"

"Draenor may be lost to us, but my heart tells me I will see its skies again one day.
Ancestors, may this dream come true!"

The Mag'har will make a new home here on Azeroth.
We pledge our blades to the Horde!

"There are draenei on this world?
<Geya'rah narrows her eyes.>
Not for long."

"The Alliance embraces the draenei and their Lightforged kin.
That alone is reason to crush their cities to dust."
Oh, and new in-game cutscenes, including an ominous one post-Burning of Teldrassil that will make night elf fans sad. Sylvanas sure loves a little genocide.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=284848/b...ore-maghar-orc
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  #5680  
Old 06-07-2018, 08:15 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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the horde is literally ok with genocide

the mag'har want to destroy the alliance because draenei exist

morally

grey
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #5681  
Old 06-07-2018, 09:49 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
I am sick of how Blizzard now treats the Light as something "evil"
That's called being "morally grey". It's a good thing that Naaru aren't being portrayed as perfect and infallible. That is what always disgusted me about them. Now, their lust for "peace and harmony" is being shown to manifest as fanaticism and genuine tyranny (for the "good" of those they convert and conquer, of course), just as it can manifest as benevolence and kindness. It's a welcome change to boring and stale "good vs. evil" shit story, that's for certain.

Quote:
Not everything has to be a "fine people on many sides" situation for fuck's sake.
Is there a "fine" person in the Burning Legion? What about the Shadow Council? The Twilight's Hammer?

Quote:
Instead we get the Mag'har wanting to exterminate the Alliance because they dare have Draenei, the AU Draenei going space ISIS and more bullshit then ever about how the Light is secret evil now too.
Good. I've been sick and tired of all of the "good and pure Alliance led by the holy and infallible God-Boy-King Anduin and his happy pals", versus the "evil Horde of Mustache Twirling Mephistophelian Fucknobs led by the Bitch Queen and her braindead posse of bootlicking sycophantic child-eaters". Fuck that.

If the Light turning out to not be so "good" as Anduin and the Alliance thinks, and it actually tries to turn Anduin into some kind of "Prior of the Ori" kind of thing (thanks Krakhed), I will be a very happy Emperor of Terror.
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I'm already salivating at the possibility that they might pull a delicious reversal halfway through, especially if it leads Anduin to some genuine character growth and faults.
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  #5682  
Old 06-07-2018, 10:44 PM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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It's been established for a while that the universe is a balance of life and void.
They seem to develop this concept and take their inspiration from order/chaos in the Moorcock universe : absolute light is absolute stagnation and absolute void is absolute change.
Neither can support life and both push against the other, so we have to balance them out.

Their new spin on the light is different from what they have been showing in game but it does not come totally out of nowhere.
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  #5683  
Old 06-07-2018, 11:48 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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You know, one might keep in mind that all the stuff we hear about this is coming from Mag'har speakers. We're being told about the draenei wrongly trying to convert them to the Light by force...while simultaneously being threatened and hearing about how the AU orcs have evidently wiped out the Primals while we were gone. Au orcs who now follow the guy who unrepentantly waged a campaign of mass death and destruction across the entire continent during WoD and was never given any reason to regret anything about it except not winning.

We're hearing from extremely biased sources here. Sources whose dialogue sprinkles in multiple hints that they might have been returning to type before the draenei started attacking them, and that by wanting freedom they particularly want the freedom to go back to being bloodthirsty monsters if they so choose. The more I examine the Mag'har dialogue, the more I feel like these are not the "good orcs." They don't sound like they want peace. They sound more like they're eager for another crack at playing Horde so they can split skulls and conquer stuff.

And we're supposed to just trust them when they tell us the draenei are the unreasoning party here? We're to just assume the draenei went fanatical and attacked unprovoked rather than in response to the orcs of AU Draenor reverting back to their old ways?

After all, when faced with the prospect of orcs who seem to regularly engage in another rampage every few years or so, the safest and most humane alternative to someday finding oneself on the receiving end again might be trying to convert them to a system of beliefs that doesn't encourage lopping off the heads of people who irritate you just because you can.

Just sayin.' We're only hearing one side of things here, and I find it frankly hard to believe that orcs who act and talk like this were just minding their own business quietly weaving baskets and writing poetry when suddenly the draenei went all naaru akbar on them.
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  #5684  
Old 06-08-2018, 01:01 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Well, we only know that for some unknown reason, AU Dreanor is dying. Some people were thinking, that their timeline was falling apart. I had another theory.

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I'm not sure if the timeline is falling apart.

Based on the fact that AU Dreanor seems to be "desicating" I have another crazy theory.

According to the Yrel/Grom dialogue, both blame either others side for what's happening with Dreanor.

But what if both are wrong?

A few weeks ago, we had a discussion here about Alternate Timeways and what was written about them in Chronicles III.

There was the theory, that AU Dreanor could take the place of MU Dreanor that was pulled into the Nether, when it got destroyed and turned in the Outland.

But what if the "Stabilzation" of the AU Dreanor timestream is creating a kinda "resonance" with it's MU Counterpart (aka Outland) and slowly merges both this way?
By the way, we now have the Mag'har Allied Race Intro. (Music is still missing.)



Seriously, if you ask me, ARM3481 is right.

BOTH sides, Lightbound AND Mag'har, seem to be obsessed with "purity". Neither side is better than the other.

Last edited by Vineyard; 06-08-2018 at 01:04 AM..
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  #5685  
Old 06-08-2018, 01:46 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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The Alt-Draenei are doing what the Alliance should have done to the Orcs (burn the uncompliant and convert the compliant to the Light as to counteract the side-effects of the demon curse). No no, it's the best thing to happen to Draenei in YEARS.

I just know that they're going to pull a Scarlet Crusade and make the Alliance hostile to them. Complete with a lecture on how what they do "isn't their way."

Last edited by Cacofonix; 06-08-2018 at 01:55 AM..
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  #5686  
Old 06-08-2018, 02:16 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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it's almost the equivalent of saying Jesus and Satan are the same morally, that they are both morally grey and have done equally terrible things

sorry but I don't buy that the Light - a force of benevolence and healing as seen by every single Naaru in existence up until Blizzard's stupid BFA writing - and the Void, an inherently destructive and malevolent force are the same equivalent
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #5687  
Old 06-08-2018, 03:00 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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It is it forced? Maybe...

Is it among the best thing to be done with an Alliance race recently? YES!

The Alt-Draenei are what the Alliance should be.

Last edited by Cacofonix; 06-08-2018 at 03:05 AM..
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  #5688  
Old 06-08-2018, 04:43 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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it only goes to show you that Blizzard's thrown in the towel when it comes to writing anything more then two dimensional "good is evil just like evil!"

Seems like Christie Golden's already leaving her 'mark' on Blizzard's story and not in a good way
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #5689  
Old 06-08-2018, 06:15 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Ah the classic Alliance conundrum: does being good guys make us week? Or can we justify us doing the same atrocities we accuse our enemies of, as well as a few of our own? Always so jealous of what the Horde does, but eager enough to condemn it.

I like this development for the AU Draenei. It actually makes them complicated, and it’s a nice break for orc fans, for whom this was written anyway.

Orcs, in every setting in which they appear, are bred for War. In this setting, they are the descendants of giants created by the designated War Titan to fight the ancestors of the Primals. Creature’s of destruction created to counter out-of-control creation. This storyline vindicates and validates that purpose. Remember, if you don’t like it, it wasn’t written for you. There are plenty of storylines that are.
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  #5690  
Old 06-08-2018, 06:56 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
You know, one might keep in mind that all the stuff we hear about this is coming from Mag'har speakers. We're being told about the draenei wrongly trying to convert them to the Light by force...while simultaneously being threatened and hearing about how the AU orcs have evidently wiped out the Primals while we were gone. Au orcs who now follow the guy who unrepentantly waged a campaign of mass death and destruction across the entire continent during WoD and was never given any reason to regret anything about it except not winning.

We're hearing from extremely biased sources here. Sources whose dialogue sprinkles in multiple hints that they might have been returning to type before the draenei started attacking them, and that by wanting freedom they particularly want the freedom to go back to being bloodthirsty monsters if they so choose. The more I examine the Mag'har dialogue, the more I feel like these are not the "good orcs." They don't sound like they want peace. They sound more like they're eager for another crack at playing Horde so they can split skulls and conquer stuff.

And we're supposed to just trust them when they tell us the draenei are the unreasoning party here? We're to just assume the draenei went fanatical and attacked unprovoked rather than in response to the orcs of AU Draenor reverting back to their old ways?

After all, when faced with the prospect of orcs who seem to regularly engage in another rampage every few years or so, the safest and most humane alternative to someday finding oneself on the receiving end again might be trying to convert them to a system of beliefs that doesn't encourage lopping off the heads of people who irritate you just because you can.

Just sayin.' We're only hearing one side of things here, and I find it frankly hard to believe that orcs who act and talk like this were just minding their own business quietly weaving baskets and writing poetry when suddenly the draenei went all naaru akbar on them.
Exactly! That's my position as well, but you are way more articulate than me.

When I judge two sides, I'll weight their values and actions.

I see draenei offering mercy, treating their enemies with respect (just look the Grom/Yrel dialogue), justifying their actions because the orcs are supposedly killing Draenor and accepting orcs among them so long as they comply.

And I see the mag'har reveling in their battle prowess, proud on killing things, eager to kill their enemies, celebrating their genocide on the primals and quick to judge everyone who is not up to their standard of "purity".

Sorry, the only side that has shown true fanaticism so far are the orcs. If orc culture is doomed to be violent towards others, then the draenei are actually completely right to try to convert them to a more peaceful way of life.
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  #5691  
Old 06-08-2018, 07:42 AM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Ah the classic Alliance conundrum: does being good guys make us week? Or can we justify us doing the same atrocities we accuse our enemies of, as well as a few of our own? Always so jealous of what the Horde does, but eager enough to condemn it.

I like this development for the AU Draenei. It actually makes them complicated, and it’s a nice break for orc fans, for whom this was written anyway.

Orcs, in every setting in which they appear, are bred for War. In this setting, they are the descendants of giants created by the designated War Titan to fight the ancestors of the Primals. Creature’s of destruction created to counter out-of-control creation. This storyline vindicates and validates that purpose. Remember, if you don’t like it, it wasn’t written for you. There are plenty of storylines that are.
I agree wholeheartedly. The Orcs, in my opinion, are the far more sympathetic viewpoint here. The Primals were not innocent victims, they were genocidal and violent plant monsters.

I like that the Draenei are the ones who started this present conflict, instead of the "evil Orcs/Horde are just evil and nasty to all of the cute human-like species for no reason" crap. We also have no proof that it was the Orcs who destroyed the planet, and no reason to believe they did. The Light, on the other hand, had been shown in Alleria's short story to be able to destroy planets and turn them into barren wastelands with giant crystals for mountain ranges, with the souls of all of the "righteous" trapped within. We have no reason not to believe that the Naaru are not manipulative and controlling, as they have always pumped "happy" and "calming" feelings into the heads of mortals, and Xe'ra's treatment of Illidan showed a very controlling and disturbing side to them. These new portrayals mean that the Draenei and the Naaru aren't perfect, and are just as capable of doing wrong as the Orcs. Which is far better than the Draenei being perfect morally and always being put-upon by Orcs or Demons, this actually shows that they can be pricks just like anyone else.

I believe the Orcs when they say the Naaru manipulated the Draenei into their "Bright Crusade", and the Orcs were just minding their own business and were fine co-existing with the Draenei. This story was written for those who want sympathetic Orcs, and the Orcs being invaded and forced to convert to a tyrannical ideology certainly accomplishes that.
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  #5692  
Old 06-08-2018, 07:51 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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I agree wholeheartedly. The Orcs, in my opinion, are the far more sympathetic viewpoint here. The Primals were not innocent victims, they were genocidal and violent plant monsters.
There's a difference between a war to defend yourself and a culture that revels in battle and overcoming foes. One could say the orcs are defending themselves, but everything in their quotes show that they are dangerous anyway.

Quote:
I like that the Draenei are the ones who started this present conflict
Did they? Are we certain of that?

Quote:
We also have no proof that it was the Orcs who destroyed the planet, and no reason to believe they did.
The orcs destroyed the primals, which are related to Draenor's plantlife. That could have led to dire consequences to the entire environment.

Quote:
The Light, on the other hand, had been shown in Alleria's short story to be able to destroy planets and turn them into barren wastelands with giant crystals for mountain ranges, with the souls of all of the "righteous" trapped within.
That's how the Void sees the Light. It doesn't need to be how a Light-taken planet ends up becoming.
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  #5693  
Old 06-08-2018, 08:16 AM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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There's a difference between a war to defend yourself and a culture that revels in battle and overcoming foes. One could say the orcs are defending themselves, but everything in their quotes show that they are dangerous anyway.
Nothing wrong with "a culture that revels in battle and overcoming foes", so long as the reason is good. Defending themselves from imperialistic Draenei is a perfectly good reason.

Quote:
Did they? Are we certain of that?
Judging by the actions of the Draenei, them talking like they are on a fanatical jihad against Orcish unbelievers, it is very compelling evidence.

Quote:
The orcs destroyed the primals, which are related to Draenor's plantlife. That could have led to dire consequences to the entire environment.
One line of dialogue isn't enough to prove if they destroyed all of the Primals. For all we know, Farahlon is packed with the fuckers. Then, there's the matter of plant life existing on Draenor that isn't Primals. Primals are just one species of plant. Plant life seems to do just fine in Terrokar Forest on Outland, another place where the Primals are extinct, as well as Blade's Edge Mountains, where there are pockets of plantlife inhabited by Ogres and Arakkoa. As well as Nagrand and Zangarmarsh. The fact that Mag'har Orcs had lived, relatively peacefully mind you, in Nagrand for decades, and it wasn't turning into a desolate wasteland is further proof that the Orcs weren't behind the destruction of AU Draenor.

Quote:
That's how the Void sees the Light. It doesn't need to be how a Light-taken planet ends up becoming.
I disagree. Both sides, the Void and the Light, were showing the truth of what the other did to people, while ignoring their own hypocritical actions.
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  #5694  
Old 06-08-2018, 08:34 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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The problem with saying the orcs are biased is that's not how Blizzard tends to write things. They're extremely upfront storytellers. When the orcs say it was an out of nowhere attack as a result of corruption from the naaru, we are given no reason to doubt this and going by the straightforward way Blizzard tends to write I do not expect to be given a reason. If we are told it was that simple, then it was that simple.
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:03 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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The problem with saying the orcs are biased is that's not how Blizzard tends to write things. They're extremely upfront storytellers. When the orcs say it was an out of nowhere attack as a result of corruption from the naaru, we are given no reason to doubt this and going by the straightforward way Blizzard tends to write I do not expect to be given a reason. If we are told it was that simple, then it was that simple.
I disagree. Whenever Blizzard feels like it, it shows different PoVs in things just to create conflict. Sometimes, the divergent PoVs are even conflicting one another, as both can't be true.

Which is why things like Taurajo, the Purge of Dalaran or Garrosh's actions are still debated to this day.

In this case, we only saw the perspective of the race that's joining the Horde.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganishka
Nothing wrong with "a culture that revels in battle and overcoming foes", so long as the reason is good.
A culture that's entirely based on that is never good, because it will eventually turn on allies or itself.

I'd be more welcoming of these mag'har if their quotes weren't entirely based on killing other things. Where are the peaceful orcs? Apparently, they joined the draenei.

Quote:
One line of dialogue isn't enough to prove if they destroyed all of the Primals.
"We bested the primals. We will bring down any foe."
"I miss the botani. When you roasted them just right, they were DELICIOUS."


Then, from the Lightbound:
"You have ruined this land! It is not too late to save it!"
"Your people are choking the life from this world... dooming the land to desiccation."


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Then, there's the matter of plant life existing on Draenor that isn't Primals. Primals are just one species of plant.
The botani planted/nurtured other plants. The destruction of the primals could have thrown the environment out of balance, leading to extinction of other species. Draenor may find balance again over time, with other species taking the place of the dying ones, but for now it could have dire consequences.

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I disagree. Both sides, the Void and the Light, were showing the truth of what the other did to people, while ignoring their own hypocritical actions.
Even Lightforged beings like the draenei, Turalyon or Lothraxion have been shown to be able to make choices that aren't fanatical. Yes, Xe'ra tried to force the Light on Illidan, but there's nothing saying that Illidan would turn into a fanatical zealot due to that.

Until we actually see Draenor and can judge for ourselves, I won't take the mag'har PoV as absolute truth.

I will never trust the opinion of someone who is so quick to judge to say things such as these:

"There are draenei on this world?
<Geya'rah narrows her eyes.>
Not for long."

"The Alliance embraces the draenei and their Lightforged kin.
That alone is reason to crush their cities to dust."


The mag'har are not reasonable, so there's no reason to put trust on them.
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:25 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I will never trust the opinion of someone who is so quick to judge to say things such as these:

"There are draenei on this world?
<Geya'rah narrows her eyes.>
Not for long."

"The Alliance embraces the draenei and their Lightforged kin.
That alone is reason to crush their cities to dust."


The mag'har are not reasonable, so there's no reason to put trust on them.
The mag'har just came from a world where the draenei were trying to kill/convert them, and you don't think it's strange for them to immediately hug the draenei they find in Azeroth? They don't have all the information, but to them, the draenei are a threat to their very lives, and the fact the alliance actually has them and lightforged among them show the mag'har they are just as bad as the ones they left behind on Draenor. Hopefully they'll get more info to show that these draenei are not like the ones they know.

(this is assuming everything the mag'har is saying is true, which I am inclined to believe because I find it hard to believe that Blizzard would continue to dump on the orcs, as well their new-found love for portraying everything as potentially evil now with the light)

Last edited by Mungo; 06-08-2018 at 09:30 AM..
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  #5697  
Old 06-08-2018, 09:31 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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The difference between this and things like Taurajo is there is no Alliance questline here. Only the Horde goes to Draenor, and so if there was going to be some other perspective they would have to show it in the Horde questline since Alliance never sees any of this anyway. They don't.
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  #5698  
Old 06-08-2018, 09:38 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
The difference between this and things like Taurajo is there is no Alliance questline here. Only the Horde goes to Draenor, and so if there was going to be some other perspective they would have to show it in the Horde questline since Alliance never sees any of this anyway. They don't.
To me this story screams "To be continued (soon)..."
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:40 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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The problem with saying the orcs are biased is that's not how Blizzard tends to write things. They're extremely upfront storytellers. When the orcs say it was an out of nowhere attack as a result of corruption from the naaru, we are given no reason to doubt this and going by the straightforward way Blizzard tends to write I do not expect to be given a reason. If we are told it was that simple, then it was that simple.
No, we only know they think that's why it's happening.

Yeah, they're completely upfront about it. And to a race whose culture celebrates killing and conquering, an ally reacting to their rampages by trying to make them change their ways would objectively seem exactly like a bizarre fanatical about-face.

Remember, orcs are a people who during the time of Cataclysm was infuriated by the very idea of trading with the night elves instead of just taking what they wanted. People like to tout the night elves cutting off trade as an instigating factor of orcish aggression, but frankly the orcs hated trading with them in the first place. That's not what "real orcs" do. They lumped it into the pile of "human stuff Thrall is forcing on us" because getting what one needs without the threat of violence was a foreign and "wrong" idea in their minds.

And that's the MU orcs, who actually suffered prolonged consequences after running amok, rather than evidently changing sides with Archimonde's defeat and becoming allies against the demons overnight.

After all, they say without the Legion to fight the AU draenei became fixated on the Light. But what did the AU orcs do? Oh, apparently they went and found other stuff to slaughter instead. Remember, most of these orcs would be either former soldiers of the Iron Horde or descended from such. You know, the Iron Horde that started an unprovoked war against the rest of Draenor and invaded Azeroth. And they're currently following the guy who led them to do it. Don't fall into the trap Thrall did; just because they're mag'har doesn't mean they're automatically the "good orcs" who did nothing wrong and can be trusted to behave themselves.

Keep in mind that by the very nature of this expansion, this stuff is being introduced in a factional context. We're in the midst of a faction war in BfA, and Blizzard has shown a precedent for literally having different events occur depending upon which side the player's on (which is what's known as just plain bad writing when it's canonically supposed to be part of a shared story), let alone spinning one side's understanding of things that happen. That's why to this day we still have Horde players spouting about heaps of dead blood elves in Dalaran when Alliance players were there at the same time and saw otherwise. I.e. writing that's executed poorly on purpose to fuel faction partisanship outside of the story. And so now we've got Eitrigg framing the Alliance fighting the Horde as being comparable to the Burning Legion invading Draenor in WoD. Because when he's part of a faction conflict, we must forget his own history and the shit he sees Sylvanas doing so that he - and therefore the player - can pretend the Alliance are conquering tyrants.

Last edited by ARM3481; 06-08-2018 at 09:47 AM..
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  #5700  
Old 06-08-2018, 09:42 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
The mag'har just came from a world where the draenei were trying to kill/convert them, and you don't think it's strange for them to immediately hug the draenei they find in Azeroth? They don't have all the information, but to them, the draenei are a threat to their very lives, and the fact the alliance actually has them and lightforged among them show the mag'har they are just as bad as the ones they left behind on Draenor. Hopefully they'll get more info to show that these draenei are not like the ones they know.
I understand to be wary of something that resembles to much another thing you despise. I can get behind not having trust in the draenei and the Alliance. I can't support someone who's willing to cause a genocide, from a race that has attempted several genocides in multiple timelines, just because of that.

And that's why I don't trust their PoV. If seeing something you dislike is reason to grab weapons and kill things, then why is it so hard to think that maybe it's the maghar that saw the naaru doing something and immediately jumped to conclusions like "THAT'S EVIL AND I WON'T ALLOW IT! KILL, KILL, KILL!"?

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(this is assuming everything the mag'har is saying is true, which I am inclined to believe because I find it hard to believe that Blizzard would continue to dump on the orcs, as well their new-found love for portraying everything as potentially evil now with the light)
I'm assuming the maghar are not lying. They are saying what they believe is true. That does not mean it's the absolute truth.
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