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Old 02-15-2021, 02:21 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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For those who want the context around that quote: https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

Notably, a good portion of the article talks about a "conspiracy" to make sure people could vote during a pandemic and to reduce disinfo that's been spreading since before 2016 (of which a remarkable quantity passed through these very forums). The flashy language you're talking about is mostly [bad] journalistic sensationalism that the editor should never have allowed. The material within the article, however, is pertinent and did need to be noted (albeit in a far less partisan light).

This is why I've been just asking that we share evidence and news instead of rhetoric and theory. If we want to discuss things, we have to have a baseline set of facts we all agree on. For the stuff on the 6th, it's down to showcasing items that Trump supporters and Trump himself publicly stated (e.g. the Trump phone call with Tuberville and subsequent tweet against Pence) and using that as our basis for describing the event.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-imp...f292d9db21cab1

https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-worl...capitol-attack

If we can agree on that, we can then go to other primary sources (e.g. the Capitol police, members of Congress, other staff, etc).

Granted, we're basically "re-litigating" what the House Impeachment managers already showcased, but if doing so with debate here can help prove certain facts and disprove disinfo (regardless of its origin or intent) among our community members I'm willing to take the time.
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Old 02-15-2021, 06:48 PM
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To bolster the point that the insurrection was not a bunch of "manufactured hysteria," here's a list of people who actually manufacture hysteria: https://www.yahoo.com/news/superspre...051017790.html

Why is this important? Because a goodly number of these ideas were pulled into QAnon conspiracy theories (e.g. cannibalistic pedophilia).

Further, I can personally attest from speaking with my wife about limitations in specialization (namely, techniques associated with genetic tools that are different between model organisms and how difficult it is for specialists outside a respective sub-field to understand them) and my sister about virology (she works with RNA viruses and is very familiar with coronaviruses [albeit, not SARS-COV-2 directly]) that even Nobel Laureates are not infallible on the topic. Again, this is notable because a great many individuals want to use one detractor in a generalized field to debunk the mass acceptance of material by the rest of the field (including those who are direct specialists on a topic).

If we can suppose that QAnon is listening to hysteria, including direct disinfo, they will be willing to be agitated into illegal action by individuals in power championing that disinfo. Trump, as the de facto leader of QAnon (by virtue of its membership seeing him as the movement's messiah), had control over the mob's understanding of reality. If they believed he had summoned them to "Stop the Steal" and that his subordinates' statements like "trial by combat" (https://www.reuters.com/video/watch/idOVDU2NS9R) were approved, then they would be wiling to assault the Capitol under those auspices.
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Old 02-16-2021, 12:59 AM
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Cantus, I love you, but I think you're putting way too much headspace into this.

Personally, I think Trump was pretty ineffective

Before you agree with me, you probably won't agree with WHY I think this

But, I, too, work in a lab that literally does COVID testing and I can tell you all of this pandemic nonsense is nothing but a corporate and government power grab

The testing sucks, it's inaccurate as hell, and there's literally no reason for anyone healthy to worry at all about this bug, and yet we've fucked everyone but the rich into home arrest and economic disaster over it.

I literally know more people who went bankrupt over lockdowns than I do people who were even hospitalized for COVID. Hell, I know more people suffering adverse effects from the bullshit vaccine and missing work over it than I do people who missed work for COVID (and, again, I work in a fucking lab that handles these medical samples).

We crashed the economy for NOTHING.

And Trump did fuck-all to prevent it

Even if you're a right-winger that likes all his federal court nominees, you have to figure most of that was on Cocaine Mitch

So, yeah, my take has nothing to do with any loyalty to Donald Trump

But Biden is a fucking disaster by comparison

Trump was ineffective. Biden is crushing more jobs and liberty by the gross. The KeystoneXL order, for example, won't stop a single drop of oil from coming to us... it will just make it more expensive and more likely to spill and wreck the environment... oh, and it kills thousands of jobs. Nice one, Joe.

The Capitol riots were a nothingburger compared to BLM/Antifa all summer, and you're deranged if you think otherwise. Turn off the goddamned CNN and look around without the aid of any mainstream media (I canceled all TV service about five years ago, and I've never been happier... I spend my evenings reading old books).

The cop who died? They can't charge anyone with anything over it, because there's nothing in the autopsy to suggest murder. Nobody wants to talk about it.. everyone just wants to scream INSURRECTION and start putting people they don't like politically in camps for it. Settle the fuck down already - you're literally starting to sound like the fascists you pretend to hate.

QAnon was, at best, a bunch of frustrated Facebook moms posting political fantasies. At worst, it was a psyop (read about Operation Trust - that's what it smells like). For fucks sake, don't ever marginalize me with those morons.

There's no doubt the swing state late night vote dumping looks sus, and if you can't honestly admit that, again, you're deranged. Keep believing what you want, but know that I can't take you seriously if you can't be the least bit objective about what happened. I live in Arizona, and there was no energy whatsoever for the Biden campaign here. Somehow he won Maricopa County. And somehow, the County is doing everything they can to keep an audit from happening. Does that sound open and honest to you?

Meanwhile, in California, where they prohibit signature verification on general election ballots, Gavin Newsom is insisting on verification for the recall election.

LOL

And I'd love to know who Andy Cuomo pissed off... even the Democrats in the state government are calling for his head.

If I could, I'd move to Florida... place is chock full of crazy, but at least they let you mind your own damned business.
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:33 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Cantus, I love you, but I think you're putting way too much headspace into this.

Personally, I think Trump was pretty ineffective

Before you agree with me, you probably won't agree with WHY I think this

But, I, too, work in a lab that literally does COVID testing and I can tell you all of this pandemic nonsense is nothing but a corporate and government power grab

The testing sucks, it's inaccurate as hell, and there's literally no reason for anyone healthy to worry at all about this bug, and yet we've fucked everyone but the rich into home arrest and economic disaster over it.

I literally know more people who went bankrupt over lockdowns than I do people who were even hospitalized for COVID. Hell, I know more people suffering adverse effects from the bullshit vaccine and missing work over it than I do people who missed work for COVID (and, again, I work in a fucking lab that handles these medical samples).

We crashed the economy for NOTHING.

And Trump did fuck-all to prevent it

Even if you're a right-winger that likes all his federal court nominees, you have to figure most of that was on Cocaine Mitch

So, yeah, my take has nothing to do with any loyalty to Donald Trump

But Biden is a fucking disaster by comparison

Trump was ineffective. Biden is crushing more jobs and liberty by the gross. The KeystoneXL order, for example, won't stop a single drop of oil from coming to us... it will just make it more expensive and more likely to spill and wreck the environment... oh, and it kills thousands of jobs. Nice one, Joe.

The Capitol riots were a nothingburger compared to BLM/Antifa all summer, and you're deranged if you think otherwise. Turn off the goddamned CNN and look around without the aid of any mainstream media (I canceled all TV service about five years ago, and I've never been happier... I spend my evenings reading old books).

The cop who died? They can't charge anyone with anything over it, because there's nothing in the autopsy to suggest murder. Nobody wants to talk about it.. everyone just wants to scream INSURRECTION and start putting people they don't like politically in camps for it. Settle the fuck down already - you're literally starting to sound like the fascists you pretend to hate.

QAnon was, at best, a bunch of frustrated Facebook moms posting political fantasies. At worst, it was a psyop (read about Operation Trust - that's what it smells like). For fucks sake, don't ever marginalize me with those morons.

There's no doubt the swing state late night vote dumping looks sus, and if you can't honestly admit that, again, you're deranged. Keep believing what you want, but know that I can't take you seriously if you can't be the least bit objective about what happened. I live in Arizona, and there was no energy whatsoever for the Biden campaign here. Somehow he won Maricopa County. And somehow, the County is doing everything they can to keep an audit from happening. Does that sound open and honest to you?

Meanwhile, in California, where they prohibit signature verification on general election ballots, Gavin Newsom is insisting on verification for the recall election.

LOL

And I'd love to know who Andy Cuomo pissed off... even the Democrats in the state government are calling for his head.

If I could, I'd move to Florida... place is chock full of crazy, but at least they let you mind your own damned business.
I can say, without going into detail, rules for testing in places I deal with across the nation have coincidentally changed around certain time periods that will drastically influence testing numbers, from restricting tests to people who are almost certainly going to get a positive, to in one case "do not turn anyone away, even if the test is for travel, which our test won't even work for"

It leaves a very poor taste, not only because it DOES influence in the numbers, but ends up blocking out people who could actually use the tests in some cases.
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Old 02-16-2021, 09:42 AM
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https://twitter.com/AWKWORDrap/statu...930757633?s=20

Notice that because he's on the left they call them an 'ex soldier' rather than a veteran.
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Old 02-16-2021, 10:16 AM
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Yeah, Trump crashed the economy for nothing. We had models for how to handle testing and quarantines, Trump just went the other direction entirely and did nothing, choosing inaction and culture war fear-mongering and partisan baiting instead. And his little governors fanboy simp club followed suit in places like Texas and Florida. The fetishization of the "America more special better, now w/bootstraps" mentality is demented and dangerous, as we have seen amply demonstrated over the last year. Trying to brute force through a pandemic that would wreak utter devastation in our hospitals and more vulnerable populations, for muh economy...

Instead of passing mind-boggling defense budgets and unprecedented bailouts for corps, we could have used a fraction of that money to pay people to stay home for 2 weeks the way they did in authoritarian hellholes like... checks notes.. New Zealand.

And of course we see shades of the covid denialism and conspiracy theories right here in this thread. Of course such things will find fertile soil in the collective psyche of a population utterly left to rot by their leaders. This is the conservative endgame: no matter the human cost, we must prove that government is very very bad and not good by taking it over and running it into the ground.
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Old 02-16-2021, 01:23 PM
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Don't have time to talk today, except to say I'm in no way shocked people lose the forest for the trees and that my cousin (ER down in TX) would seriously beg to differ.

Separately, a nice little chunk of science on COVID19: https://twitter.com/djarovsky/status...768486410?s=20
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:17 PM
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Unsurprisingly the republicans are trying to blame Texas bullshit energy grid on renewable energy despite the fact that wind is over-capacity atm and thermal is under, by ERCOT's own estimates.


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Old 02-16-2021, 09:34 PM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
https://twitter.com/AWKWORDrap/statu...930757633?s=20

Notice that because he's on the left they call them an 'ex soldier' rather than a veteran.
Funny

In my estimation, I'd consider an "ex-soldier" (i.e., one who actually was deployed in a combat sense) more honorable than simply a "veteran" who might have done nothing more than push paperwork on a domestic base.

Either way... dick move to diminish a warrior's service.

Personally, I think BLM and the Libertarian Right had a lot in common, and they should have teamed up... but the DNC got their hooks in BLM and fucked it all up, because, Orange Man Bad, or some shit.


Edit: Cantus, we all have anecdotal stories that affirm our own bias.

One of my closest friends is a doctor in the ER at the VA here in Phoenix. He says his ER is full of people worried they have COVID, but aren't actually any sicker than allergies or a common cold. He thinks the mask mandates are nothing more than a false sense of security offered to a panicked public that feels like they need to DO SOMETHING.

So, wear your mask and get vaccinated if that makes you feel better, but it's not really making a lick of difference one way or another.
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Old 02-24-2021, 02:13 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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The NIH/CDC statistics and testing seems to have born out that masks and social distancing work. On top of that, the Moderate and Severe forms very visibly have worse short term and long term outcomes. The lung scarring alone is notable, much less the issue with strokes. Given my own understanding of epidemiology, I'm going to trust them over others.

As to libertarians, I think we all know my opinion on them. BLM aren't anything like them and any survey of their goals makes this immediately obvious. Police reform is not the same as free for all abandon of law. Ditto other legislative reform and updating of infrastructure and service. They don't want to be free from government, they want a government that doesn't discriminate against them and helps everyone (black, white, asian, etc) live without abuse from private parties.

Separately @Ruin, https://www.abc15.com/news/region-ph...unty-elections
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Old 02-24-2021, 02:20 AM
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I can say, without going into detail, rules for testing in places I deal with across the nation have coincidentally changed around certain time periods that will drastically influence testing numbers, from restricting tests to people who are almost certainly going to get a positive, to in one case "do not turn anyone away, even if the test is for travel, which our test won't even work for"

It leaves a very poor taste, not only because it DOES influence in the numbers, but ends up blocking out people who could actually use the tests in some cases.
We just got finished dealing with the Trump administration's absolute ratfucking of testing. I'm in no way surprised there have been significant changes during the virtual war between Trump's cronies and lower level bureaucrats who just wanted to do their jobs right. That doesn't even account for issues within states either. Maryland is a perfect example, where Johns Hopkins fought against the Hogan administration's bad statistics and ended up losing out on how to report their data.
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Old 02-26-2021, 01:42 PM
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Wait

Are you comparing Hogan to Trump?

You guys confuse the hell out of me sometimes.
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Old 02-26-2021, 06:50 PM
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More videos from Jan 6: https://tommycarstensen.com/terrorism/videos.html

Hogan is an example of standard GOP behavior (pre-Trump) and why it's still failing us in terms of informing people about COVID and making sure that we deal with the pandemic quickly and capably enough. His policies are remarkably anti-low wage Baltimore, which just so happens to be majority non-White. This is a good case in point before the pandemic started: https://www.baltimoresun.com/politic...pti-story.html

Recently, he's failed (ridiculously) on creating a complete database system for assuring the vaccine gets to where it needs to be. Over 75's aren't able to get their dose because no one can control where vaccines are going, which means we're overloading individual systems with redundant requests. My aunt (younger than my dad) got the option to take her shot in VA before my dad had his in MD. And now Hogan's claiming Baltimore is over-supplied when they haven't even finished out the Stage 1 group. My wife and I don't expect to get vaccinated until mid-Summer at the earliest.

So...yeah, in terms of how to not handle the pandemic, Trump is the absolute worst followed closely by most Republican states (Florida's sunshine is hitting a lot of coughing faces), followed further by states with cross-party control. Turns out it's assholes all the way down.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states
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Old 03-21-2021, 02:37 PM
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Twitter Accusation against Dan Avidan: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...HqWgAIjNF1.png

Oof... that's disappointing.

EDIT:

Thankfully the whole thing seems to be made up.

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Old 03-30-2021, 03:16 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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And I'd love to know who Andy Cuomo pissed off... even the Democrats in the state government are calling for his head.
I'd just like to take a moment and point out this amazing level of projection. Dem scandals are actually taken seriously. Politicians like Al Franken have stepped down over accusations even if the initial one looked shakey.
Meanwhile, Republican politicians rape children and are rabidly defended, eg Roy Moore.

[edit] And with beautiful timing, the right is now circling wagons regarding Gaetz apparently engaging in the sex trafficking of a minor.
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Old 04-05-2021, 09:50 AM
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I'd say Gaetz is boned, but it actually wouldn't be the first time his family connections get him off the hook for what would be a prison sentence for an ordinary American. The #SavetheChildren Q warriors will dump this guy any minute now... Any minute now....
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