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  #201  
Old 07-21-2016, 09:14 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Anduin can very well become High King only at the end of his reign. If it's in a big war against the Legion/Voie, it's possible that most of the other leaders are dead and that therefore the Alliance needs a central command to continue the war.

I see this comic confirming that we won't end the Legion permanently in WoW. Seems like it's seeding a Warcraft 4 that happens 50 years later.
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  #202  
Old 07-21-2016, 09:17 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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honestly they could time jump to 50 years later and character wise it'd pretty much only affect humans, orcs and goblins i think. They'd need another world revamp tho. A new vanilla.
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  #203  
Old 07-21-2016, 09:19 PM
Vaximillian Vaximillian is offline

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Anduin can very well become High King only at the end of his reign. If it's in a big war against the Legion/Voie, it's possible that most of the other leaders are dead and that therefore the Alliance needs a central command to continue the war.

I see this comic confirming that we won't end the Legion permanently in WoW. Seems like it's seeding a Warcraft 4 that happens 50 years later.
I'd be fine with that.
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  #204  
Old 07-21-2016, 09:20 PM
Azurehax Azurehax is offline

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I don't think that ending was refering to the Legion. I'm pretty much convinced this expansion will deal a major blow to the Legion by killing KJ. And Sargeras could possibly end up as another means of this ''shadow''. But I'm certain its refering to the Void Lords. Light vs Shadow.
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  #205  
Old 07-21-2016, 09:28 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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I'm disinclined to think we'll be doing anything like permanently killing Kil'jaeden or Sargeras in Legion. This is the "wake-up call" expansion, where the world realizes that they can't just keep fending off the Legion and expect to last forever, and stopping this current threat will have to be followed by preparations to fight back.

It'd be a jarring leap to go straight from figuring that out to demolishing the uppermost hierarchy of the Legion and putting an end to its reign within a few patches.

Hell, for all the big-name demons we're facing, we're only even killing them on Azeroth. Which means they'll all be coming back in the Nether down the line to lead the Legion's armies again. Even Mannoroth's really just been waiting for the cooldown on his demonic respawn to turn over since HFC.

Really even going to Argus would seem like a fairly obnoxious leap. We've already got two towering goals ahead of us: stop whatever the Legion has planned for Illidan's body, and use the Pillars to slam that portal shut in Sargeras' tomb. just those two things feel like viable fodder for an expansion-capping content patch. It would just be too sudden to go from halting the largest demonic invasion ever straight to "hey, as long as we're killing demons, let's go trash the Legion's planet-sized command center in the span of a single raid tier!"
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  #206  
Old 07-21-2016, 10:00 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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We might not be permakilling yet, but Lissandra comments give me the feeling we will face Sargy himself.

I'd honestly trash it in a single tier than an xpack. You know an xpack will dilute Argus.

Last edited by GenyaArikado; 07-21-2016 at 10:03 PM..
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  #207  
Old 07-21-2016, 10:01 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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lol at the implication that the comic makes that Anduin needed convincing as to whether or not the LEGION is something that should be fought

I take it back, Sylvanas will be fine
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  #208  
Old 07-21-2016, 10:40 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
I'm disinclined to think we'll be doing anything like permanently killing Kil'jaeden or Sargeras in Legion. This is the "wake-up call" expansion, where the world realizes that they can't just keep fending off the Legion and expect to last forever, and stopping this current threat will have to be followed by preparations to fight back.

It'd be a jarring leap to go straight from figuring that out to demolishing the uppermost hierarchy of the Legion and putting an end to its reign within a few patches.

Hell, for all the big-name demons we're facing, we're only even killing them on Azeroth. Which means they'll all be coming back in the Nether down the line to lead the Legion's armies again. Even Mannoroth's really just been waiting for the cooldown on his demonic respawn to turn over since HFC.

Really even going to Argus would seem like a fairly obnoxious leap. We've already got two towering goals ahead of us: stop whatever the Legion has planned for Illidan's body, and use the Pillars to slam that portal shut in Sargeras' tomb. just those two things feel like viable fodder for an expansion-capping content patch. It would just be too sudden to go from halting the largest demonic invasion ever straight to "hey, as long as we're killing demons, let's go trash the Legion's planet-sized command center in the span of a single raid tier!"
Agreed. I expect the final to be the Avatar of Sargeras at the bottom of the Tomb or something like that. I feel perma-killing KJ would be a waste and a completely retarded move on Blizzard's part.
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  #209  
Old 07-21-2016, 10:48 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Anduin looks badass in these arts. The portrayal also is top-notch.

And I never liked the boy.

Bring the changes, Blizzard. Bring the changes.
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  #210  
Old 07-21-2016, 10:55 PM
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I liked the comic and I liked that Anduin a lot.

The last scene was really confusing tho, and his rocky draenei shoulder concerns me.

Jesus that's a annoying cliffhanger to make.
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  #211  
Old 07-21-2016, 10:58 PM
Azurehax Azurehax is offline

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Derp didn't realize that the entire comic was actually a flashback to his young self from the very beginning. The first picture with the eyes its him being old.
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  #212  
Old 07-21-2016, 10:58 PM
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Anduin looks badass in these arts. The portrayal also is top-notch.

And I never liked the boy.

Bring the changes, Blizzard. Bring the changes.
These aren't drastic changes. People seem to think he was a cowering wimp. He never has been. Between the death of his mother, the whole Onxyia affair, the fact his time with the dwarves and Moria, the journey to pandaria and the events in Cataclysm and finally Pandaria and the whole sha ordial, he has been idealistic and naïve but never cowardly or wimpy. The kid stood up against Garrosh on his own and is the reason the Garrosh never got to use the Divine Bell.

This direction seems to be him losing some of his naivety. Not his idealism but learning the necessity fighting and sacrifice for the sake of peace.
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  #213  
Old 07-21-2016, 11:00 PM
Quaero Quaero is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
I'm disinclined to think we'll be doing anything like permanently killing Kil'jaeden or Sargeras in Legion. This is the "wake-up call" expansion, where the world realizes that they can't just keep fending off the Legion and expect to last forever, and stopping this current threat will have to be followed by preparations to fight back.

It'd be a jarring leap to go straight from figuring that out to demolishing the uppermost hierarchy of the Legion and putting an end to its reign within a few patches.

Hell, for all the big-name demons we're facing, we're only even killing them on Azeroth. Which means they'll all be coming back in the Nether down the line to lead the Legion's armies again. Even Mannoroth's really just been waiting for the cooldown on his demonic respawn to turn over since HFC.

Really even going to Argus would seem like a fairly obnoxious leap. We've already got two towering goals ahead of us: stop whatever the Legion has planned for Illidan's body, and use the Pillars to slam that portal shut in Sargeras' tomb. just those two things feel like viable fodder for an expansion-capping content patch. It would just be too sudden to go from halting the largest demonic invasion ever straight to "hey, as long as we're killing demons, let's go trash the Legion's planet-sized command center in the span of a single raid tier!"
If WoD is anything to go by, that is EXACTLY what is going to happen.

Hype up the enemy as the biggest, baddest, strongest sons of bitches known to man only to quickly and neatly dispatch them one by one without a single hitch along the way.

In another note, I'm still baffled by the "Demons exist as one across all realities" retcon. It creates many more problems than the ones it "fixed"

Last edited by Quaero; 07-22-2016 at 12:00 AM..
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  #214  
Old 07-21-2016, 11:02 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Lena is a cuck.

And also a Blizzard Cock sucker.
Never gets old reading him whine about Worgen development even though Draenei have a far more promising future in the lore than Worgen do.

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Derp didn't realize that the entire comic was actually a flashback to his young self from the very beginning. The first picture with the eyes its him being old.
Huh, for some reason I thought that was Varian and the shadowy colors just changed the color of his eyebrows.
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  #215  
Old 07-21-2016, 11:07 PM
Azurehax Azurehax is offline

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Never gets old reading him whine about Worgen development even though Draenei have a far more promising future in the lore than Worgen do.



Huh, for some reason I thought that was Varian and the shadowy colors just changed the color of his eyebrows.
I brushed it off at first, put you pick it up upon re-reading it and seeing the last one.
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  #216  
Old 07-21-2016, 11:42 PM
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These aren't drastic changes. People seem to think he was a cowering wimp. He never has been. Between the death of his mother, the whole Onxyia affair, the fact his time with the dwarves and Moria, the journey to pandaria and the events in Cataclysm and finally Pandaria and the whole sha ordial, he has been idealistic and naïve but never cowardly or wimpy. The kid stood up against Garrosh on his own and is the reason the Garrosh never got to use the Divine Bell.

This direction seems to be him losing some of his naivety. Not his idealism but learning the necessity fighting and sacrifice for the sake of peace.
Garrosh did get to use the bell. He specifically uses it during a battle with the Alliance. Apparently his soldiers could not handle the effects and lost the battle.

Here's another thing; Anduin lectures characters that are literally thousands of years older than him. If Anduin were meant to be naïve, no one would listen to a word he says. Instead, he mostly gets his way and is held up as a moral standard, a paragon of virtue that is wise beyond his years.

When he's really just a stupid brat that falls easily for a little sweet talk.
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  #217  
Old 07-21-2016, 11:44 PM
Eelgrin Eelgrin is offline

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Between the Anduin comic and the paladin order hall, I'm not sure where they're going with the Army of the Light timeline. But whatever. Taking the fight to the Legion sounds fun, and that was always probably gonna involve dimensional fortresses at some point (I don't mind the draenei/Anduin cross-pollination stuff.)

I just hope our characters get to be a part of it, in a really big way - the notion that the Army is already out there, kicking ass, kinda makes it seem like we're missing out. But Velen firing up the Exodar, and Lothraxion, have me interested enough for now.

Also, gonna suggest "redeemons" as a catch-all for Lothraxion and his ilk.
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  #218  
Old 07-21-2016, 11:48 PM
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Garrosh did get to use the bell. He specifically uses it during a battle with the Alliance. Apparently his soldiers could not handle the effects and lost the battle.

Here's another thing; Anduin lectures characters that are literally thousands of years older than him. If Anduin were meant to be naïve, no one would listen to a word he says. Instead, he mostly gets his way and is held up as a moral standard, a paragon of virtue that is wise beyond his years.

When he's really just a stupid brat that falls easily for a little sweet talk.
Well apparently Furion and Tyrande are bloody useless, despite being the major instigators of the Legion's defeat in Azeroth twice.

So, I dunno it's that Anduin is all that naive or impressionable or if it's just that everyone else is really useless and dumb.

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Hell, for all the big-name demons we're facing, we're only even killing them on Azeroth. Which means they'll all be coming back in the Nether down the line to lead the Legion's armies again. Even Mannoroth's really just been waiting for the cooldown on his demonic respawn to turn over since HFC.
Gosh, can I just say this is the single worst development Blizzard has ever unleashed?

I mean it's got some competition, but literally almost every major emotional moment in Reign of Chaos involved a demon dying.

And now, just... poof. Never mind.
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  #219  
Old 07-22-2016, 12:06 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Gosh, can I just say this is the single worst development Blizzard has ever unleashed?

I mean it's got some competition, but literally almost every major emotional moment in Reign of Chaos involved a demon dying.

And now, just... poof. Never mind.
While it has its problems, my issues with Archimonde and Mannoroth not perma-dying in WC3 pale in comparison to the implications that their pathetic wastes of deaths in HFC might turn out to be the actual permanent ones.

"Mannoroth being slain by Grom at the cost of his own life to free his people from the curse was a poignant and story-shaking plot point, so topping that clearly called for him to die again at the hands of a different Grom who only vaguely knows about him from a thirdhand source, then again at the hands of a bunch of raiders as just one more big demon with a loot table at the cost of nothing to anyone.

Then we decided Archimonde being exploded in epic fashion atop the World Tree at the cost of the night elves' immortality to save the world wasn't a worthy enough end for such a powerful villain, so we traded it up for a hollow and forgettable death at the hands of a faceless raid at the cost of nothing to anyone."

They are really bad at bringing these characters back. Mannoroth returning should have meant something. Archimonde returning should have meant something. Tichondrius and Detheroc returning should mean something. Yet there's never any sense of "holy crap, this guy's still alive" from the NPC's who should think he's dead. It's just a bland, empty "Hey, here's a mob with a familiar name. Kill, loot, then rinse and repeat for eight months."

Nothing surprises any of the characters. They write these big revelations as if the NPC's already know because they've been reading the developers' Tweets about demons and own copies of Chronicle.

Last edited by ARM3481; 07-22-2016 at 12:11 AM..
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  #220  
Old 07-22-2016, 12:47 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Garrosh did get to use the bell. He specifically uses it during a battle with the Alliance. Apparently his soldiers could not handle the effects and lost the battle.
Not really the point. That being that he, a fifteen years old boy, stood up to a massive mountain of muscle like Garrosh, which basically disqualifies him from being a wimp or cowardly.

Also, I admit it is a way long time since I did that questline the last time, but doesn't what you describe happen before, not after? I remember Anduin shattering the bell, which is why Garrosh shatters his bones in return.
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  #221  
Old 07-22-2016, 01:19 AM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Not really the point. That being that he, a fifteen years old boy, stood up to a massive mountain of muscle like Garrosh, which basically disqualifies him from being a wimp or cowardly.

Also, I admit it is a way long time since I did that questline the last time, but doesn't what you describe happen before, not after? I remember Anduin shattering the bell, which is why Garrosh shatters his bones in return.
Anduin expresses that confronting Garrosh as he did was not the smartest move he'd ever made (he was stupid not brave). And no, Anduin doesn't show up until after Garrosh uses it and the PC character puts down a few rampaging Sha afflicted orcs.

Garrosh himself writes off the bell and is content to have seemingly killed Anduin.
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  #222  
Old 07-22-2016, 01:43 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Anduin expresses that confronting Garrosh as he did was not the smartest move he'd ever made (he was stupid not brave). And no, Anduin doesn't show up until after Garrosh uses it and the PC character puts down a few rampaging Sha afflicted orcs.

Garrosh himself writes off the bell
and is content to have seemingly killed Anduin.
False, on both parts. Anduin is there from the very beginning and supports you as you fight the Sha infested orcs, and it is him who uses the mallet on the Bell.


I will not even argue the rest, as that has nothing to do with the underlying point; Anduin was never a wimp or cowardly. I am not arguing whether is/was he naive or stupid.
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  #223  
Old 07-22-2016, 02:38 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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In another note, I'm still baffled by the "Demons exist as one across all realities" retcon. It creates many more problems than the ones it "fixed"
When was that?
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  #224  
Old 07-22-2016, 02:43 AM
Sakurako Sakurako is offline

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While it has its problems, my issues with Archimonde and Mannoroth not perma-dying in WC3 pale in comparison to the implications that their pathetic wastes of deaths in HFC might turn out to be the actual permanent ones.

"Mannoroth being slain by Grom at the cost of his own life to free his people from the curse was a poignant and story-shaking plot point, so topping that clearly called for him to die again at the hands of a different Grom who only vaguely knows about him from a thirdhand source, then again at the hands of a bunch of raiders as just one more big demon with a loot table at the cost of nothing to anyone.

Then we decided Archimonde being exploded in epic fashion atop the World Tree at the cost of the night elves' immortality to save the world wasn't a worthy enough end for such a powerful villain, so we traded it up for a hollow and forgettable death at the hands of a faceless raid at the cost of nothing to anyone."

They are really bad at bringing these characters back. Mannoroth returning should have meant something. Archimonde returning should have meant something. Tichondrius and Detheroc returning should mean something. Yet there's never any sense of "holy crap, this guy's still alive" from the NPC's who should think he's dead. It's just a bland, empty "Hey, here's a mob with a familiar name. Kill, loot, then rinse and repeat for eight months."

Nothing surprises any of the characters. They write these big revelations as if the NPC's already know because they've been reading the developers' Tweets about demons and own copies of Chronicle.
I actually think the demons coming back is a really cool thing, but handled poorly

like the emotional impact of groms sacrifice could have been increased if we saw say, mannoroth returning with a new horde of some alternate universe totally controlled by the blood curse and them killing Garrosh while taunting him about how he'll never be able to do what his father did

but that would require some huge rewrites to at least warlords and some of MoP (I mean I consider warlords to start at patch 5.3 but still)

but the way HFC was handled really was shit, I feel mannoroth or gul'dan should have been the last boss, but I also loathe the idea of a villain always living to set up the next expac espically with how its been the primary villain who we spend a huge chunk of time going off to kill

like in MoP if it was Kazdormi (I think thats his name? bronze dragon guy) carrying out the plan with us having killed Garrosh in siege it would have felt a lot better

and having a shadow council person infiltrate the horde (or alliance as a sargerei) and head to Azeroth to rally the SC remnants here to do the spell at the tomb would have been way more cool, we could have even had the mouse mount come from a quest line where we track down the traitor and try to follow their tracks but get distracted by malfurion needing our help with something and having it been added in 6.2.3
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  #225  
Old 07-22-2016, 05:49 AM
neoshadow neoshadow is offline

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