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  #4676  
Old 03-28-2018, 02:02 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Oh wait, so the Alliance killed civilians, but since they were killing the "villain faction" civilians then despite doing the exact same thing, the Alliance wasn't being a villain?

Occam's razor. Both do the same stuff. There are no heroes nor villains there, it's just war.
Nope. When the Alliance kills civilians, it's typically glossed over or ignored for the most part. When the Horde does it. it's in big ugly displays for all to see. The intent is clearly to portray the Horde as villains.
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  #4677  
Old 03-28-2018, 02:05 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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What makes you think I care about reasonable financial directions for the franchise?

What makes you think I was asking them why they are still playing Warcraft? I just answered that a few posts ago. Can you read?
In answer to your second question, because our conversation before this point was explicitly clear that we were discussing the reactiona of certain Horde posters. You even linked a thread containing those reactions.

As to your first, the franchise's financial viability is going to dictate future content, including whether there will be future content at all, which leads to this: if a lot of players respond to the question of "why are you playing Warcraft?" and reply with "good point, I think I'll stop", is that really worth a game that excludes the wishes of that established fanbase just so that you can have a game that caters only to you and those who like the things you like? Or, is it better to construct the game in such a way that you get some of what you want and they get some of what they want without one side needing to impair the enjoyment of the other?
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  #4678  
Old 03-28-2018, 02:39 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
if a lot of players respond to the question of "why are you playing Warcraft?" and reply with "good point, I think I'll stop", is that really worth a game that excludes the wishes of that established fanbase just so that you can have a game that caters only to you and those who like the things you like? Or, is it better to construct the game in such a way that you get some of what you want and they get some of what they want without one side needing to impair the enjoyment of the other?
Trying to please everyone is one surefire way of ruining a game.
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  #4679  
Old 03-28-2018, 03:18 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
In answer to your second question, because our conversation before this point was explicitly clear that we were discussing the reactiona of certain Horde posters. You even linked a thread containing those reactions.

As to your first, the franchise's financial viability is going to dictate future content, including whether there will be future content at all, which leads to this: if a lot of players respond to the question of "why are you playing Warcraft?" and reply with "good point, I think I'll stop", is that really worth a game that excludes the wishes of that established fanbase just so that you can have a game that caters only to you and those who like the things you like? Or, is it better to construct the game in such a way that you get some of what you want and they get some of what they want without one side needing to impair the enjoyment of the other?
In an ideal world, yes, you should construct the game in exactly such a way. However, what if we are not in an ideal world, and one group wants something mutually exclusive with what the other wants, what do you do? What if you can't possibily construct it so that both are at least partially pleased without impairing the enjoyment of the other?
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  #4680  
Old 03-28-2018, 04:15 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
In an ideal world, yes, you should construct the game in exactly such a way. However, what if we are not in an ideal world, and one group wants something mutually exclusive with what the other wants, what do you do? What if you can't possibily construct it so that both are at least partially pleased without impairing the enjoyment of the other?
I'm going to ignore the assumption buried in this that Blizzard has reached that point except to say that I don't think they have. They have chosen to make binary decisions, but I don't buy that those were the only option, especially with the format of the game and the size of the gamespace. They were able to make it work in Vanilla for the most part, the only thing that changed were the writers.

So, replying to your hypothetical...

If you absolutely can't construct it to please the groups for which you have presented options though (let's call them A and B, you should either remove B as an option so that you can focus on A (such as you might choose to do in a single player game) or use price discrimination to claw back some of the B crowd you expect to lose. (Access to A becomes a premium option, and the basic version decreases in price)

But make no mistake, if you are in that situation, you will lose portions of the group you choose to give the inferior product. It's just a matter in that case of how many you want to lose.
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  #4681  
Old 03-28-2018, 04:32 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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I don't think you answered the question I had actually asked (might have or might have not to do with the presumably buried assumption that was not buried there at all, not sure), but I am not going to push this, so thank you for your answer.
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  #4682  
Old 03-28-2018, 04:58 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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A Guild Colleague and me also got Alpha Access now.
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  #4683  
Old 03-28-2018, 05:22 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #4684  
Old 03-29-2018, 04:30 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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  #4685  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:06 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
That's very cool.
(That cloak and the trenchcoats are finally something I can call "Alliance bias", lol)
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  #4686  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:27 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
That's very cool.
(That cloak and the trenchcoats are finally something I can call "Alliance bias", lol)
Wait until you see the Horde's glorious spike-cloak
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  #4687  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:59 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
That's very cool.
(That cloak and the trenchcoats are finally something I can call "Alliance bias", lol)
More like Ebon Blade bias. Or Forsaken bias. That thing's tatterness clashes with the rest of the shiny armor. I like it, though. Perfect for undead.
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  #4688  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:24 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Commander Rotal View Post
More like Ebon Blade bias. Or Forsaken bias. That thing's tatterness clashes with the rest of the shiny armor. I like it, though. Perfect for undead.
I'm already thinking of cool mogs using that for my hunter. (And hoping that the cloak is not plate-only, like the rest of the set).

Which is interesting. It's the first thing I'm really looking for in BfA so far.
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  #4689  
Old 03-29-2018, 07:01 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I'm already thinking of cool mogs using that for my hunter. (And hoping that the cloak is not plate-only, like the rest of the set).

Which is interesting. It's the first thing I'm really looking for in BfA so far.
Doesn't really look like it's even part of the set unless it has a "war torn"-theme... must be perfect for Batman Rogues.

I must have it.
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  #4690  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:22 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Sadly, it is apparently a fake.

edit: Vulpera's tabard in alpha is labeled as Horde-only so, yeah, looking like they're on their side for sure.

Last edited by Arakiba; 03-29-2018 at 07:02 PM..
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  #4691  
Old 03-29-2018, 11:40 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arakiba View Post
Sadly, it is apparently a fake.

edit: Vulpera's tabard in alpha is labeled as Horde-only so, yeah, looking like they're on their side for sure.
Now that I think about it... with no clear alliance counterpart to the vulpera, and with how much unanswered foreshadowing the Sigryn storyline gave us in Legion... could the vulpera's alliance counterpart be vrykul?

It would be kind of odd to add them right after Kul Tirans, but I can't see anything else they've been seeding.
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  #4692  
Old 03-29-2018, 11:45 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Now that I think about it... with no clear alliance counterpart to the vulpera, and with how much unanswered foreshadowing the Sigryn storyline gave us in Legion... could the vulpera's alliance counterpart be vrykul?

It would be kind of odd to add them right after Kul Tirans, but I can't see anything else they've been seeding.
I'm not a fan of the vulpera being playable but if they are I guess I'd like another furry race on the Alliance, in which case I'm gonna go to bat for playable Furbolg, using either a bulked-up Worgen model or the Pandaren model.
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  #4693  
Old 03-30-2018, 12:10 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Now this is a really cool idea.




Look at those early undead models!
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  #4694  
Old 03-30-2018, 01:09 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Now that I think about it... with no clear alliance counterpart to the vulpera, and with how much unanswered foreshadowing the Sigryn storyline gave us in Legion... could the vulpera's alliance counterpart be vrykul?

It would be kind of odd to add them right after Kul Tirans, but I can't see anything else they've been seeding.
Well, i don't know... let's break this up in matching pairs:

Zandalari - Kul'Tirans (variations of existing races, newly recruited in Zandalar and Kul'Tiras respectively; getting fancy Druid forms)
Nightborne and Highmountain Tauren - Lightforged Draenei and Void Elves (recruited via Legion, more or less seeded in Legion; Nightborne and Void Elves give other Faction's model sceletons)
Mag'Har Orcs - Darkiron Dwarfs (bringing in factions already existing within the Lore without big changes)
Vulpera - ???

Based on the idea that Allied Races are treated as equ... treated as having similar themes i would expect whatever the Alliance gets to be closer to the Vulpera: a completely new race that uses one of their own faction's models' sceleton. I hereby nominate the Snek People (although i'd be ecstatic to get Tortollans, obviously) using Worgen models. Incidentally... here's a thought. Last info on Worgen and Goblin updates was "in development". Wouldn't it be a nifty idea to make double-use of any improvements? The Vulpera are using the Goblin skeleton, and the Sethrak most of the Worgen-one... *scratches chin*
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  #4695  
Old 03-30-2018, 02:16 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I wouldn't mind sethrak in my Alliance, they're pretty damn cool.
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  #4696  
Old 03-30-2018, 02:58 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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People still denying the age of Alliance gnolls.

What have I done to deserve this?
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  #4697  
Old 03-30-2018, 05:52 AM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arakiba View Post
Sadly, it is apparently a fake.

edit: Vulpera's tabard in alpha is labeled as Horde-only so, yeah, looking like they're on their side for sure.
A tabard does not really indicate anything towards an Allied race candidate though.

Personally I don't see Vulpera as good candidates for an Allied race at all. They're the definition of flash popularity. Everyone wants to talk Allied races and they're new and appeal to a certain demographic.

They have no real prescence outside one single zone and they're also functionally pointless to the war effort and thus Sylvanas. I guarantee they'd be just another underplayed and underdeveloped race like Worgen or gnomes come an expansion or 2 at most. Maybe even less depending on if they manage to stick a notable character.
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  #4698  
Old 03-30-2018, 07:37 AM
zoombini zoombini is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Now this is a really cool idea.
Look at those early undead models!
It's a cool idea, but dude is asking for 10,000 people to put down $40 apiece for this in the next 12 days. Not sure why he set the goal to be 400k.
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  #4699  
Old 03-30-2018, 08:59 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Now that I think about it... with no clear alliance counterpart to the vulpera, and with how much unanswered foreshadowing the Sigryn storyline gave us in Legion... could the vulpera's alliance counterpart be vrykul?

It would be kind of odd to add them right after Kul Tirans, but I can't see anything else they've been seeding.
I’m not saying they won’t be playable, but there’s confirmation they will be right? Blizzard also said they don’t have to always have allied races in pairs, though they’ll try for a while.
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #4700  
Old 03-30-2018, 09:46 AM
Hades Hades is offline

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Boralus is one of the best things I've seen ever in WoW.

Stromgarde on the other way...
uh

A pity we can't get every city on the seven kingdoms at that level of detail.
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