Originally Posted by Marthen

Interesting theory. The thing is...why would heirs of Arathi (who founded Stormwind) pay homage to Lordaeron and its kings? As far as we know, both kingdoms were founded at about same time, so how could a freshly established kingdom exercise dominion over another one, not to mention the one that was farthest of all human kingdoms?

Originally Posted by Marthen

That is actually one of things to which I have been looking for a solution. On one hand, we have a Warcraft II map where Stratholme is located on northern shore of Darrowmere lake, while in every other material it is located on northern shore of Lordaeron (although still north of the Darrowmere lake). Now, one could just say that city was razed and rebuilt in different location...but is that really plausible for a city with population numbers ranging in tens of thousands? I am not really sure about that. But then again, with Stratholme sitting on northern shore of Lordaeron without any water connection to the Darrowmere lake, some of things seen in Warcraft II do not really make sense. So, what to do about it?

The solution I came with is the following one (by the way, I realized I uploaded a little bit older version of the map, so I am adding the latest version together with territorial version to the first post as well as to the later part of this post for you to see this solution). On the northern shore of Lordaeron, directly to the north of Darrowmere lake lies the so called Darrowmere bay. This bay is directly connected to the Darrowmere lake via Thondoril river, which unlike its in-game representation is a huge sailable river (as large as Danube or Rhine for example). Now, the city of Stratholme is a harbor city lying directly next to the mouth of Thondoril on shores of this Darrowmere bay. So, while it is not located on northern shores of the Darrowmere lake, it has direct water connection with it and is still a harbor city as well as large suplier of oil (of which there are large deposits in the Darrowmere bay).

Now, here is the updated version (clickable):


And here is the promised territorial (de facto, not de jure) version, right before the start of the First War (clickable):


Now, to explain a few things.

First, regarding a little bit "akward" borders between Alterac and Lordaeron. My personal theory (and the one I am going with in this project) is that formerly, the Barov family, owners of Caer Darrow, Tarren Mill, Southshore and Brill in Alterac* and surrounding area and the Blackmoore family, owners of the Durnholde Keep and its surroundings, were Alteraci noble families and their lands were thus part of Alteraci kingdom. But at some point of history, Alterac lost a war against Lordaeron, after which those families became a vassals of Lordaeron kings and their lands in turn became a part of Lordaeron. Also, Dalaran, who was a target of Alteraci agression in this war, gave Lordaeron a large swathes of land surrounding Hillsbrad as a token of gratitude for their help.

*Regarding Brill in Alterac and Brill in Tirisfal Glades. In this take on Warcraft, both exist, they just have same name. This is even somewhat realistic, medieval villages and towns were often name in same patter, for example there was a large number of villages called Lhota in medieval Bohemia.

Also, some may ask the following question; what the hell is this Domain of Azeroth? Where is the kingdom of Stormwind? Well...once again, this is basically a solution for the whole problem with Azeroth/Stormwind name. It is basically based on idea that yes, there is the kingdom of Stormwind and yes, it was originally founded with this name. But over time, as influence and power of Stormwind kings grew, they started to fancy themselves as rulers of the whole Azerothien* continent. And eventually, approx. 590 years before the start of the First War (start of the King's Calendar), they claimed a dominion over all of Azeroth, taking a title of the Defender of Azeroth (as seen on Llane's plaque). And those lands they claimed dominion over became known as the Domain of Azeroth (or as the Azerothien kingdom, named after its inhabitants*), being composed of the kingdom of Stormwind itself as of the island of Balor and the so-called Borderland, as well as being represented by its own distinct banner**.

*While inhabitants of the planet of Azeroth are known as Azerothians with adjective form being Azerothian, the (human only) inhabitants of the continent of Azeroth are known as Azerothiens, with adjective form being Azerothien.

**Azerothien banner before the First War. Composed of the lion of Stormwind, the icon of the Holy Light (Azerothien version) and the so-called Cross of Azeroth (as seen in Warcraft I, for example on the footman's shield or on the archer's tabard):

Originally Posted by Anansi

Dat map.

Originally Posted by Marthen

I am glad you liked it.

Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo

Careful. Anini is the self declared official cartographer of SoL and I don't think he likes competition.

Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard

A noble affair, if only a bit too limited by existing lore. Too little towns and cities actually named and described, too many background settlements we see in the RTS games that expand the game world, but stay unnamed. A historian's heart wishes to see more and more country-related info revealed and ready for study, but alas, Warcraft.

Originally Posted by Genesis

I have far more to say on your work, but I'm at work. But I will say that I do not think that Kul Tiras was ever referred to as a "merchant republic" or anything other than as a monarchy with its titular monarch taking upon the preferred title of 'Lord Admiral."

Originally Posted by Mertico

I'm basing mine on the shortly lived title the King in Prussia. Just copying what Wikipedia has to say about it.



Actually. this totally makes sense with what else has been said. The land was called the the Domain of Azeroth because it was technically part of the kingdom of Lordaeron, alebit semi-independent. However, one of the Wrynn rulers wanted to be king so he began to call himself (with permission granted by a Menethil king) the King in Stormwind. In Stormwind he was a king but outside of Stormwind he was not. When he would travel into the Domain of Azeroth he was only whatever title it was that the Domain of Azeroth granted him. And like Marthen said, around 590 years ago they also started calling themselves the Kings of Azeroth because they were now the kings of the much larger area that was the domain section. It also might signal the official break from Lordaeron ruled Azeroth to the current Stormwind ruled.

Or, it's also possible that they became the Prince in Stormwind and thus not the same rank as the Menethil king. It was only after they secured the Domain of Azeroth as part of their principality did they start to call themselves the Kings of Azeroth. Maybe the official Menethil title for awhile was King of Lordaeron and King of Azeroth.

Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo

Careful. Anini is the self declared official cartographer of SoL and I don't think he likes competition.

Originally Posted by SmokeBlader

And the HRE was a meme that went too far.

Originally Posted by PajamaSalad

You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.

Originally Posted by BaronGrackle

I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.

Originally Posted by Marthen

As I said, this work is not only attempting to create some sort of reconciliation of existing material. That would not be enough to create a coherent image, since there are many blank spots and holes that needs to be filled. And this is one of those parts where I drawn most likely outcome based on a few little tidbits available and trends existing in the real world.

Now, you are right, there is (as far as I know) no mention of Kul Tiras being a "merchant republic". But we know a few things about it. First, it is merchant nation. That is its defining theme. It is mentioned many times both in games and written material. Second, it is primary a maritime nation. Once again, a very important theme. Now, the thing is...if we look at the real world, we can see a few trends upon which we can draw a few conclusions. First, a nations like this (ie nations base primarly around trade), even more so if they were completely independent, had low level of regal power, since power centralized in hands of one monarch was not really all that good for a trade. Second, instead of evolving into elective monarchies, like other nations with weak regal power did, they evolved into merchant republics, since power relied on wealth far more. Now, the whole matter is of course far more complicated, but still, even based on this, Kul Tiras being a merchant republic is actually quite plausible.

And that is not everything. Not only trends of the real world point out to this, but so do little details we know about Kul Tiras from official lore works. First of all, the title of rulers of Kul Tiras. Lord Admiral. While yes, it might be just a fancy title, why call yourself a lord, if you are a king? Why not Admiral King? It is quite strange to actually demote you rank like that. Unless it actually represents some kind of the first among equals. Also does not Lord Admiral kind of sounds more like a military title than title of the sovereign ruler? Second of all, there is a little detail, which recurs in first Warcraft novels. Merchant lords of Kul Tiras. They are mentioned in the Last Guardian and in the Day of the Dragon.

So, when you couple the real world trends and aforementioned details, it souncs like the merchant republic of Kul Tiras could be a thing. And that is why I choose to use it. But my interpretation is not of classical merchant republic. Instead, it is sort of mix between an elective monarchy and a merchant kingdom. One where there are many powerful families holding a title of the merchant lord, who in turn form some kind of council or conclave...and this conclave, apart from being a legislature body, elects the head of state and supreme military commander in one person. And this head of state, elected for life, is called the Lord Admiral. Oh, and Proudmoores, who pretty much one of the most powerful families (if not the most powerful), are holding this office for generations now.

Originally Posted by Siegrune

In addition to the question of why Stormwind kings were subject to other rulers, it doesn't seem to explain why the planet is called Azeroth.

Originally Posted by Genesis

You may be overthinking the whole Stormwind vs. Azeroth name.

It's possible that the kingdom itself is formally "Stormwind" as the founding city-state, but considering that their territories, fiefdoms, and inhabitants expanded across the sub-continent of Azeroth, it functionally was the Kingdom of Azeroth.

Originally Posted by ijffdrie

It's a game of one up-manship between the northerners and southerners. First, those pesky northern nobleman call their new nation Lordaeron, as a statement that "yep, we're totally gonna get this entire continent". In retaliation, the southern king calls his new nation Azeroth, because "screw you northern folk, I am still your king". The northern nobles got the last laugh in though, naming their new hang-out spot Capital City.

Originally Posted by Genesis

According to the Seven Kingdoms in-game book, the name of the city-state itself was in fact 'Lordaeron.' 'Capital City' may simply be the city's nickname or a name that caught on like "Istanbul" ('to the city').

Originally Posted by Genesis

So here we see Deathwing include Daelin along with Terenas as the only monarchs with viable daughters for marriage.

Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo

New headcanon: Tess Greymane was already betrothed to Isiden Perenolde at the time.

Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo

New headcanon: Tess Greymane was already betrothed to Isiden Perenolde at the time.

Originally Posted by Mertico

One could say that Azeroth is a corruption of the word Arathor much in the same way emperor is a corruption of the word Imperator. Kaiser and tzar are a corruption of the word Caesar, for another example. Why would these be names of both a kingdom and a planet? Because they're named in honor of Arathor.

Originally Posted by Siegrune

So are you saying that Azeroth is a word used only when speaking Common and that the orcs, night elves, etc. don't call it that way? (I mean today, in WoW's environment - of course in ancient times the night elves would have had a different word, though then again it's unclear if they would have distinguished the planet from 'Kalimdor.')

Originally Posted by Vaximillian

Regarding Kul Tiras, Alterac and similar crap such as Gilneas: it bothers me a tiny bit that there aren't any other governmental ranks and titles other than kings and kingdoms in human nations. Where are the dukes? Princes? Barons? Counts? That's the beauty of feudalism — an imperial fuckton of hierarchically aligned landlords, warlords and whateverelselords, each of them claiming overlordship over his own little (or not) patch of land. Vassals, liege, fiefs, stuff like this.

Originally Posted by Genesis

I would say that it's more implausible that Kul Tiras was a merchant republic given what we know of Warcraft. "