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View Poll Results: Who is the true villain?
Tyrande 11 61.11%
Maiev 7 38.89%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 06-05-2017, 07:49 AM
OnyxWatcher OnyxWatcher is offline

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Default Who is vile? Tyrande vs Maiev

Who is the bigger bitch?
Let's assume:

Tyrande and her Sentinels entered to the jail on full shit and were like feeling neither remorse no feeling of consequence, just no fuck given. They've killed all Watchers on their way and released prisoners. I don't know how Night Elf law works, but it was definitely a vandalism.

On the other site we have [s]Tyrande[/s] EDIT: Maiev - sick pervert cold bitch who seems like having ill-satisfaction by keeping people in dark, wet, depressive cell for 10 000 years. I know life sentence sucks for someone who is immortal, so... amnesty maybe?

What do you think?

Last edited by OnyxWatcher; 06-05-2017 at 08:19 AM..
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  #2  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:10 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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To be honest, the fact that the Wardens didn't simply move aside still makes no sense to me. Sure, Tyrande needed enemies she could fight due to the way the map was designed, but those could just as well have been demons and undead who were attacking the prison. A retcon would have appropriate in this case.

Having a choice between the kind of person both were in that exact moment, I'll have to pick Tyrande.

By the way, the second Tyrande should be Maiev.
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  #3  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:30 AM
OnyxWatcher OnyxWatcher is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
To be honest, the fact that the Wardens didn't simply move aside still makes no sense to me. Sure, Tyrande needed enemies she could fight due to the way the map was designed, but those could just as well have been demons and undead who were attacking the prison. A retcon would have appropriate in this case.

Having a choice between the kind of person both were in that exact moment, I'll have to pick Tyrande.

By the way, the second Tyrande should be Maiev.
The good question is who actually is in charge in Night Elf society.
My interpretation is Night Elf race is not one single political construct.
Sentinels (led by Priestesses of the Moon) and Watchers (led by Wardens) are two opposite factions. We don't see it in-game because units' models are the same for both factions.
Druids are neutral. They just want all the best for Night Elf race, Kalimdor and whole nature and balance of the world. They don't care lesser infightings in Night Elf society.
Sad thing is Watchers have suddenly disappeared in World of Warcraft.
It's a pity because they had high potential for Night Elf rogues lore.
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  #4  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:54 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxWatcher View Post
The good question is who actually is in charge in Night Elf society.
My interpretation is Night Elf race is not one single political construct.
Sentinels (led by Priestesses of the Moon) and Watchers (led by Wardens) are two opposite factions. We don't see it in-game because units' models are the same for both factions.
Druids are neutral. They just want all the best for Night Elf race, Kalimdor and whole nature and balance of the world. They don't care lesser infightings in Night Elf society.
Sad thing is Watchers have suddenly disappeared in World of Warcraft.
It's a pity because they had high potential for Night Elf rogues lore.
Isn't it Tyrande and Malfurion?
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  #5  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:13 AM
OnyxWatcher OnyxWatcher is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Isn't it Tyrande and Malfurion?
Then why Tyrande didn't just tell the Watchers to release Illidan? And in Frozen Throne, Maiev is adressing to Tyrande like they were equal to one another. She blames her and even suggests Tyrande should be locked na prison.
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  #6  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:15 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Maiev did literally nothing wrong.

Her worst crime is letting Tyrande drown and if that same person personally killed dozens of my men who I'd known for potentially 10,000+ years in order to free somebody who then got more of my men killed, as well as innocent civilians when he escaped to do EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID HE WOULD, then I'd probably want to do more than let 'em (maybe) drown.

Maiev x Illidan shippers should be flogged (though they'd probably be into that). They're worse than Anduin x Wrathion shippers.
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  #7  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:23 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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This thread needs a poll.

But yeah, Tyrande probably should have had authority over the Wardens (although we still don't really have any idea what kind of state Ashenvale was pre-WoW), so they were probably all guilty of treason, Maiev included.

It makes some sense for the Wardens and Sentinels to be different political entities, but I figure Tyrande still would have the moral high ground simply because she was out tending to her people and defending the world against demons while the Wardens were just sitting around playing cards and torturing prisoners for giggles.
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  #8  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:38 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxWatcher View Post
Then why Tyrande didn't just tell the Watchers to release Illidan? And in Frozen Throne, Maiev is adressing to Tyrande like they were equal to one another. She blames her and even suggests Tyrande should be locked na prison.
Because Blizzard probably made that decision post TFT.
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  #9  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:39 AM
SomeRandomEvilGuy SomeRandomEvilGuy is offline

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In WC3 I never got the impression that Tyrande had actual authority to release Illidan.
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  #10  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:41 AM
OnyxWatcher OnyxWatcher is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Because Blizzard probably made that decision post TFT.
What decision?

Also sorry for my english in poll question. How shoud I write this question correctly?
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  #11  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:48 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by OnyxWatcher View Post
What decision?

Also sorry for my english in poll question. How shoud I write this question correctly?
That Tyrande and Malfurion have led the night elves since the Sundering and that Maiev is not their equal.
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  #12  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:50 AM
OnyxWatcher OnyxWatcher is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
That Tyrande and Malfurion have led the night elves since the Sundering and that Maiev is not their equal.
Ah, that makes sense.

Retcons, retcons everywhere...
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  #13  
Old 06-05-2017, 10:39 AM
Almed Almed is offline

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The first quest Illidan does once released is to loot a demonic skull.

Releasing him was a mistake. Tyrande did worse.
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  #14  
Old 06-05-2017, 10:49 AM
OnyxWatcher OnyxWatcher is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almed View Post
The first quest Illidan does once released is to loot a demonic skull.

Releasing him was a mistake. Tyrande did worse.
Okay, but as if not looking, he wanted to use the skull's power to destroy Burning Legion. He killed that son of bitch Tichondrius after all.
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  #15  
Old 06-05-2017, 10:58 AM
Almed Almed is offline

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He didn't need the skull to kick out Tichondrius. Dreadlords have repeatedly been sent packing without Fel filled weaponry.

Also, he was quick to work for Kil'jaeden after that.
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  #16  
Old 06-05-2017, 11:12 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almed View Post
The first quest Illidan does once released is to loot a demonic skull.

Releasing him was a mistake. Tyrande did worse.
His first quest is to solo the Burning Legion and kill a Dreadlord.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #17  
Old 06-05-2017, 11:24 AM
OnyxWatcher OnyxWatcher is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almed View Post
He didn't need the skull to kick out Tichondrius. Dreadlords have repeatedly been sent packing without Fel filled weaponry.

Also, he was quick to work for Kil'jaeden after that.
Tichondrius was prime Dread Lord that time, his power was invincible (not only in-game, it was lorewisely as well I guess).
No mortal army could face him.
Even The Great Alliance has been pulverized and scattered during battle for Mount Hyjal. Only ignorance and arrogance of Archimonde decided for the Legion's fall.
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  #18  
Old 06-05-2017, 12:14 PM
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Yo, if Illidan wasn't released, the Legion might have won. Tichondrius isn't a joke.

And I do agree that Maiev seemed to be equal to Tyrande, although I don't know if that's still canon - we'll have to see what Volume 3 gives us.

But it's not a retcon if they were equal but then after the Third War leadership fell to Tyrande and Malfurion alone (and then Fandral stepped in for Malfurion), especially since the Warren's leader was missing.

As for the wardens in wow, they were busy defending and cleansing Mount Hyjal, and then we're active during the Cataclysm and afterwards.
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  #19  
Old 06-05-2017, 01:20 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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I thought Nazja was voting for Maiev. Why does the poll show her voting for Tyrande?
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #20  
Old 06-05-2017, 03:18 PM
Torch Torch is offline

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A) The magic wonder of retcons, back when Night elf leadership wasn't quite as formalised, and Illidan was still a cunt.

B) Why not have both of them have their own valid reasons? Tyrande saw Illidan as not only someone who may have been powerful enough to help, but also knew that he'd be willing to help if she herself asked.

Meanwhile, from what the watchers knew, Illidan was still a cunt, and power hungry enough that who knows whether he'd do anything more than (re)join the legion out of spite?

Then Maiev sees the ensuing shitstorm, and from what she understood of Illidan, she saw it was inevitable. Cop killers are always treated badly, and I'm pretty sure Cops tend to not be placed on cases involving their own family for some reason, so when you have a leading law enforcer who sees the watchers as her family, and Tyrande/Illidan have gotten them killed...

Just your friendly reminder that Blizzard used to be able to do subtlety, and write circumstances where even the "good" Characters did fucked up shit and the "bad" characters had pretty reasonable motivations.
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  #21  
Old 06-05-2017, 03:24 PM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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Honestly, I'm gonna go with Tyrande.

Maiev's job was to keep a prisoner imprisoned, and she did just that. It doesn't help that she wants vengeance for Naisha, and while I am not a shipper, Maiev/Naisha is the only kind that I can actually believe.

Killing Illidan would have been kinder. Nothing tortures someone like ten thousand years of solitude, especially since Illidan is extroverted. Then when you look at what he was imprisoned for and that Malfurion decided, "Well, while it's here, we might as well use it, but I won't tell my brother or release him to send him to exile, because fuck that." Seriously? :/
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  #22  
Old 06-05-2017, 04:17 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Neither Tyrande nor Maiev did nothing wrong. Both did what had to be done.

The poll is missing a third option, the true vile asshole of the story: Malfurion Stormrage.
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  #23  
Old 06-05-2017, 04:29 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shekinah View Post
Killing Illidan would have been kinder. Nothing tortures someone like ten thousand years of solitude, especially since Illidan is extroverted. Then when you look at what he was imprisoned for and that Malfurion decided, "Well, while it's here, we might as well use it, but I won't tell my brother or release him to send him to exile, because fuck that." Seriously? :/
Right, that's the thing. Why even keep him alive if he's just going to be slowly driven even more insane by isolation? Lon-ami's right. The real villain is Malfurion.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #24  
Old 06-05-2017, 05:12 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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It was dumb to let Illidan live in the first place.
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  #25  
Old 06-05-2017, 05:55 PM
Almed Almed is offline

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Nobody in WC3 says Tichondrius can only be killed with demon magic.

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His first quest is to solo the Burning Legion and kill a Dreadlord.
And devour a demonic skull.

Last edited by Almed; 06-05-2017 at 05:57 PM..
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