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  #26  
Old 11-02-2016, 09:30 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Dawnfeld View Post
Well there's always the option of them losing all their gains from Cataclysm (lore-wise, have phasing be involved perhaps) instead, as well as the Val'kyr.
They've already lost most of those, haven't they?

They were pushed out of Gilneas, only managed to reach a standstill in the Hinterlands and Silver Pine (the latter of which was already under their control), maintained control of Tirisfal, destroyed locations in Hillsbrad but didn't actually take any of them, gained control of Stromgarde only to have Galen betray them and take it back from them.

Off the top of my head, I can only remember the Forsaken successfully taking and holding Andorhal (and barely, at that), and that's just a short walk from their capital.

What you'd want isn't so much a reversal of the Forsaken's gains, so much as for the Alliance to make gains on the Forsaken's pre-Cataclysm position. At which point, you may as well just have the Alliance threaten Undercity proper, because that's effectively what you'd get if the Alliance were to gain control of Silver Pine and/or Tirisfal.

Just have the Alliance land a fleet on Tirisfal Glade's northern shore, reinforce the farms previously occupied by the Scarlet and use those as a base of operations. Have the Alliance lay siege to Brill to keep those reinforcements out of the fight while a strike force goes for Undercity proper and paving the way for an attack via gunship.

The Alliance kills a few named Forsaken, fight through waves of enemies, eventually reaches Sylvanas herself. Sylvanas makes a little speech, the Alliance fights her down to 50% health, kills a few Val'kyr, then she gives another little speech and we switch to my previous "Undercity is actually a floating necropolis" plan. The Undercity takes off and the Alliance raid is forced to retreat as their air support is taken out by the now-necropolis's air defenses, but not before the Undercity is effectively immobilized.

Horde-side, the PCs are tasked with breaking the siege of Brill so they can catch the Alliance forces in Undercity from behind with reinforcements. They take the side entrance because the Alliance's forces outnumber theirs, then activate the final mechanisms required for Undercity's take off, which are being guarded by smaller Alliance forces.

End of the day, the Alliance gets to raid and symbolically destroy a Horde capital again, and the Horde manages to keep said capital by the skin of their teeth.
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  #27  
Old 11-04-2016, 10:21 AM
Dawnfeld Dawnfeld is offline

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No I was not referring to Silverpine or Tirisfal. I was referring to Hillsbrad, Andorhal, Arathi and Gilneas.

Hillsbrad and Andorhal are very much clear gains for the Forsaken (and NOT insignificant), and the main cause of Alliance grievances with the Forsaken in Cataclysm. Reversing any of these two would help a great deal (through phasing) would help a great deal.

While the Forsaken didn't really obtain Gilneas, they pretty much destroyed it and we're supposed to believe they didn't stop invading it after Silverpine Forest as well. All this requires is just having them permanently pushed out and the nation unplagued.

And while they're no longer in control of Stromgarde, they're pretty much responsible for putting an undead Galen on the throne. Reversing their gains in Arathi would probably be the victory that'd hurt the Forsaken the least while still letting Alliance lore fans get something good out of it.

I don't think any of these is going to happen, but I'd be happy to accept it in exchange for not killing Sylvanas or taking Undercity.
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  #28  
Old 11-04-2016, 10:42 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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This thread if a shining example of why if you dislike X, you shouldnt write its story.

I find those "I'd accept" lore related posts the most hillarious thing made in this forum, because the imply the poster actually has any say on the matter or that anyone who actually does gives a shit about his/her opinions.
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  #29  
Old 11-04-2016, 10:51 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Dawnfeld View Post
No I was not referring to Silverpine or Tirisfal. I was referring to Hillsbrad, Andorhal, Arathi and Gilneas.

Hillsbrad and Andorhal are very much clear gains for the Forsaken (and NOT insignificant), and the main cause of Alliance grievances with the Forsaken in Cataclysm. Reversing any of these two would help a great deal (through phasing) would help a great deal.

While the Forsaken didn't really obtain Gilneas, they pretty much destroyed it and we're supposed to believe they didn't stop invading it after Silverpine Forest as well. All this requires is just having them permanently pushed out and the nation unplagued.

And while they're no longer in control of Stromgarde, they're pretty much responsible for putting an undead Galen on the throne. Reversing their gains in Arathi would probably be the victory that'd hurt the Forsaken the least while still letting Alliance lore fans get something good out of it.

I don't think any of these is going to happen, but I'd be happy to accept it in exchange for not killing Sylvanas or taking Undercity.
You want reversals to gains the Forsaken no longer have or never had, and for the Alliance to gain control of a military position about ten seconds away from Undercity, because if Blizzard doesn't have the balls to remove a playable faction from the game, then you won't tolerate anything less than reducing them to only maintaining a canonical presence in their starting zones.

That's what we're dealing with, here?
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  #30  
Old 11-04-2016, 11:03 AM
Dawnfeld Dawnfeld is offline

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You want reversals to gains the Forsaken no longer have or never had, and for the Alliance to gain control of a military position about ten seconds away from Undercity, because if Blizzard doesn't have the balls to remove a playable faction from the game, then you won't tolerate anything less than reducing them to only maintaining a canonical presence in their starting zones.

That's what we're dealing with, here?
Way to put words in my mouth. I was making alternative suggestions to the thread, and then elaborated when you said there was no victories to reverse.
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  #31  
Old 11-04-2016, 11:29 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Way to put words in my mouth. I was making alternative suggestions to the thread, and then elaborated when you said there was no victories to reverse.
Because there aren't.

I mean, unless you want Southshore to stop having been destroyed and being utterly uninhabitable, there aren't any gains to be reversed in Hillsbrad unless the Alliance takes/destroys Tarren Mill, at which point they aren't reversing gains, they're just making gains. Similarly in Arathi, the Forsaken no longer control Stromgarde, so the Alliance regaining control of the area wouldn't be reversing gains made by the Forsaken, it would be dealing with a non-Horde, non-Alliance entity occupying Stromgarde. And you've already acknowledged there aren't any gains to be reversed in Gilneas, because the Forsaken have already been pushed out.

The only Forsaken gain left to reverse, then, is Andorhal. But Andorhal, prior to Cataclysm, was under neither Horde nor Alliance control. Specifically, in Cataclysm, the Alliance and Horde competed over gaining control of Andorhal, and the Horde (barely) won. So the Alliance gaining control of Andorhal from the Forsaken would not be reversing Forsaken gains, it would simply be the Alliance gaining territory immediately adjacent to a Horde capital.

In order for the Alliance to make headway against the Forsaken in Arathi, it would need to destroy or take Hammerfall, the only settlement still aligned with the Horde in the region. In order for the Alliance to make headway against the Forsaken in Hillsbrad, it would need to destroy or take Tarren Mill, the only settlement aligned with the Horde in the region. In order for the Alliance to make headway against the Forsaken in the Plaguelands, it would need to destroy or take Andorhal, the only settlement aligned with the Horde in the region.

So in order for the Alliance to make any gains against the Forsaken in any of the most loudly contested zones, Blizzard would need to phase the Horde's presence out entirely in one or more zones (presumably, adding small scout camps in the ass-end of the areas in order to maintain flight paths between Silverpine and the Twilight Highlands (the next zone in which the Horde has a flight path).

And you say it's either that or killing Sylvanas/taking Undercity.
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  #32  
Old 11-04-2016, 11:45 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Best arrangement imo is

Alterac: Solidly Forsaken, the Perenolde's raised by the Forsaken and running the place.

Hillsbrad: Forsaken and with orcs and trolls moving in, Durnholde rebuilt into a fort, but Thoradin's wall held by the Alliance (and fixed to have the stairs on the right side)

Gilneas: should've been snapped off the mainland by Cataclysm, since it wasn't though, let's say a druidism ritual to fix the damage the Forsaken did with the plague works, but snaps it off.

Boom, Britain, I'm sorry, Gilneas, is an Island in Worgen hands and no longer too close to UC.

Arathi: Solidly Alliance with Stromgarde reclaimed, but Hammerfall is refortified by Horde and the local ogres/trolls join in.

Thandol Span fixed by Dark Irons.

EDIT: oh, and Hammerfall has a tunnel to Revantusk village in Hinterlands.
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  #33  
Old 11-04-2016, 11:51 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Too bad that there's no Brexiting Lordaeron!
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  #34  
Old 11-04-2016, 11:56 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Too bad that there's no Brexiting Lordaeron!
Well, the Stromgardexit was a disaster for ex-King Galen.
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  #35  
Old 11-04-2016, 12:23 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Gilneas needs....a Queen

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  #36  
Old 11-04-2016, 12:58 PM
Rexxar Rexxar is offline

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Originally Posted by GenyaArikado View Post
This thread if a shining example of why if you dislike X, you shouldnt write its story.
Ummmm excuse you Genya, when did I ever say I hated sylvanas/forsakens/UC? I'm as big of a forsaken scrub as it goes, and I was asking if the annihilation of UC would be likely someday around, since, you know, the guy whose only interesting trait is having visions of the future that actually come true directly showed it to us.

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Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
End of the day, the Alliance gets to raid and symbolically destroy a Horde capital again, and the Horde manages to keep said capital by the skin of their teeth.
So this wouldnt really work with me, but otherwise sounds fun. May be possible after we've dealt with the Legion and the faction war can get some room again.
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  #37  
Old 11-04-2016, 01:19 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Rexxar View Post
Ummmm excuse you Genya, when did I ever say I hated sylvanas/forsakens/UC? I'm as big of a forsaken scrub as it goes, and I was asking if the annihilation of UC would be likely someday around, since, you know, the guy whose only interesting trait is having visions of the future that actually come true directly showed it to us.
I think she was directing that more at Dawnfeld then you.
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  #38  
Old 11-04-2016, 01:54 PM
Shinjiro Aragaki Shinjiro Aragaki is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenyaArikado View Post
Gilneas needs....a Queen

I'm pretty sure that if Gilneas is going to have a Queen. It would most probably be a bitch.
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  #39  
Old 11-04-2016, 03:15 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Originally Posted by Rexxar View Post
Ummmm excuse you Genya, when did I ever say I hated sylvanas/forsakens/UC? I'm as big of a forsaken scrub as it goes, and I was asking if the annihilation of UC would be likely someday around, since, you know, the guy whose only interesting trait is having visions of the future that actually come true directly showed it to us.
.
Your Queen does not excuse you and We werent even talking to you, cattle, so mind your tone.


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  #40  
Old 04-13-2019, 04:41 AM
Rexxar Rexxar is offline

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I called it! UC's destruction was the next logical step, even years prior to BfA. Who wants to tune in for some more great foresights
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  #41  
Old 04-13-2019, 08:57 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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I called it! UC's destruction was the next logical step, even years prior to BfA. Who wants to tune in for some more great foresights
Careful there, newbie. Fojar is going around telling everyone that he was the only one who saw this coming and he's been known to lash out when he feels his territory is being threatened.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #42  
Old 04-15-2019, 02:24 PM
Rexxar Rexxar is offline

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NGL i find wow's story progression upsetting, but guessing a predictable and soulless story right is still satisfactory!

(and Lordaeron shouldve gone back to the Alliance after the Lich King's defeat)
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  #43  
Old 04-15-2019, 05:40 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Rexxar View Post
NGL i find wow's story progression upsetting, but guessing a predictable and soulless story right is still satisfactory!

(and Lordaeron shouldve gone back to the Alliance after the Lich King's defeat)
Wait a minute... ARE you Fojar?
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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