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  #226  
Old 05-11-2017, 06:54 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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You don't think religion plays into it?
Metatron's advocate here. What are laws if not the codified moral strictures of a society? Where do they come from, if not the moral teachings of philosophers and theologians?

Don't say common sense or basic human decency, you'll make me spit out my drink.
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  #227  
Old 05-11-2017, 06:58 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Metatron's advocate here. What are laws if not the codified moral strictures of a society? Where do they come from, if not the moral teachings of philosophers and theologians?

Don't say common sense or basic human decency, you'll make me spit out my drink.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here and how it relates to the quoted post.
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  #228  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:00 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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You don't think religion plays into it?
I think they just want a domesticated, docile, young woman they can rape and have do all their house work. No religion necessary.
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  #229  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:01 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
I'm not sure what you're getting at here and how it relates to the quoted post.
Morality stems ultimately from religious teaching. It is inevitable that laws, which are founded on the consensus of social morality, also stem from religion.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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  #230  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:06 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
I think they just want a domesticated, docile, young woman they can rape and have do all their house work. No religion necessary.
Hrm. Probably. Do you think their religion enables them?

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Morality stems ultimately from religious teaching. It is inevitable that laws, which are founded on the consensus of social morality, also stem from religion.
Do you think it would be right to ban the worship of any god other than Yahweh? It's one of those 10 commandments, which seem pretty important to Christianity. Therefore, it must be moral, yes?
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  #231  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:11 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Do you think it would be right to ban the worship of any god other than Yahweh? It's one of those 10 commandments, which seem pretty important to Christianity. Therefore, it must be moral, yes?
It would be the prerogative of a society dominated by such thought to encode that stricture in law. Whether we consider it 'right' for such a society to do so depends on which moral framework we wish to operate under.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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  #232  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:11 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Yeah but people have free will and you can't force them to worship God, only persuade them. It is the same reason why taxation isn't considered charity. It can't be coerced.
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  #233  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:15 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
It would be the prerogative of a society dominated by such thought to encode that stricture in law. Whether we consider it 'right' for such a society to do so depends on which moral framework we wish to operate under.
You believe that at no point is moral relativity to bend to empathy and sympathy?
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  #234  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:18 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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You believe that at no point is moral relativity to bend to empathy and sympathy?
You could only draw that conclusion if you choose to believe I wish to operate under the moral framework of relativity. I'm principally utilitarian.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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  #235  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:21 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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You could only draw that conclusion if you choose to believe I wish to operate under the moral framework of relativity. I'm principally utilitarian.
Then where's the limit? At what point do facets of a religion become too amoral to codify in law if that's where morals come from?
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  #236  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:25 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Then where's the limit? At what point do facets of a religion become too amoral to codify in law if that's where morals come from?
The US Constitution details out how laws are codified.
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  #237  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:27 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Then where's the limit? At what point do facets of a religion become too amoral to codify in law if that's where morals come from?
"Too amoral to codify in law?" What the hell does that mean? Any law can be codified, regardless of how abhorrent I think it is, as long as the legal structure and society will for it to be so.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #238  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:29 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
The US Constitution details out how laws are codified.
Yeah, I don't think it requires root in religion, either.

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"Too amoral to codify in law?" What the hell does that mean? Any law can be codified, regardless of how abhorrent I think it is, as long as the legal structure and society will for it to be so.
What are laws if not the codified moral strictures of a society? Where do they come from, if not the moral teachings of philosophers and theologians?
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  #239  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:34 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Yeah, I don't think it requires root in religion, either.
Yeah but religious leaders are renowned scholars when it comes to law making. That is why some are inscribed into the Supreme Court Building.
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  #240  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:35 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Yeah but religious leaders are renowned scholars when it comes to law making. That is why some are inscribed into the Supreme Court Building.
Sometimes. Sometimes they want terrible things.
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  #241  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:41 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
What are laws if not the codified moral strictures of a society? Where do they come from, if not the moral teachings of philosophers and theologians?
Are you trying to throw me for a loop? Seriously? Nothing I have said here has contradicted that point.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #242  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:42 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Sometimes. Sometimes they want terrible things.
You can't stop people voting with their conscious. Social justice is very much a religion too without the divine aspect. A lot of moral laws are passed that are just as arbitrary as religious ones.
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  #243  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:44 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Are you trying to throw me for a loop? Seriously? Nothing I have said here has contradicted that point.
I'm tired and not even sure what you're arguing. Religions are a poor basis for law.

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You can't stop people voting with their conscious. Social justice is very much a religion too without the divine aspect. A lot of moral laws are passed that are just as arbitrary as religious ones.
I don't really agree, but following any dogma without questioning it is silly. This is why critical thinking skills and questioning authority are so important.
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  #244  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:20 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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What's your point?
Christians and Buddhists are the most persecuted religions.
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  #245  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:22 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I don't really agree, but following any dogma without questioning it is silly. This is why critical thinking skills and questioning authority are so important.
I question higher education and government bureaucrats all the time.
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  #246  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:24 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I question higher education and government bureaucrats all the time.
And that's good. You just happen to come to the wrong conclusions sometimes.

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Christians and Buddhists are the most persecuted religions.
What's your metric for this?
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  #247  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:25 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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And that's good. You just happen to come to the wrong conclusions sometimes.
But I have more education than you do.
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  #248  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:26 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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But I have more education than you do.
So you've been brainwashed by those higher education facilities you complain about?
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  #249  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:27 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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So you've been brainwashed by those higher education facilities you complain about?
I like my science and math professors. I am like the favorite.
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  #250  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:29 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I like my science and math professors. I am like the favorite.
Yep. They got to you.
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