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  #351  
Old 06-15-2017, 05:25 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
501(c)(3) charities are not allowed to engage in political speech. Am I wrong?
Your definition of political speech. If the FEC is any indication it is going to mean speech in favor of Democrats is allowed but not Republicans.
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  #352  
Old 06-15-2017, 05:32 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Your definition of political speech. If the FEC is any indication it is going to mean speech in favor of Democrats is allowed but not Republicans.
Do you not think that a priest going up and telling his congregation that certain politicians are evil or the antichrist is not political speech?
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  #353  
Old 06-15-2017, 05:36 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Do you not think that a priest going up and telling his congregation that certain politicians are evil or the antichrist is not political speech?
I don't see why they can't say whatever they want without having to pay taxes.
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  #354  
Old 06-15-2017, 05:38 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
I don't see why they can't say whatever they want without having to pay taxes.
Separation of church and state is supposed to go both ways.
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  #355  
Old 06-15-2017, 05:41 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Separation of church and state is supposed to go both ways.
We don't have a state sponsored religion.
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  #356  
Old 06-15-2017, 05:49 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
We don't have a state sponsored religion.
Okay? Religious groups also aren't supposed to support or oppose politicians. That's how it works.
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  #357  
Old 06-15-2017, 05:57 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Okay? Religious groups also aren't supposed to support or oppose politicians. That's how it works.
Since when? They should be allowed to share their ideas just like anyone else can. There shouldn't be a religious penalty. As long as religion isn't compulsory I don't see the issue. It is part of the first amendment.

There has been governments who have intentionally tried to destroy religion because they wanted their people to worship the government instead. This is what communist countries have done. Religion serves as a good counter balance to all powerful governments.
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  #358  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:12 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Since when? They should be allowed to share their ideas just like anyone else can. There shouldn't be a religious penalty. As long as religion isn't compulsory I don't see the issue. It is part of the first amendment.

There has been governments who have intentionally tried to destroy religion because they wanted their people to worship the government instead. This is what communist countries have done. Religion serves as a good counter balance to all powerful governments.
They can share whatever ideas they want if they agree to pay taxes. Nobody is restricting anything. It's a fair compromise. Many are just violating it.
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  #359  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:18 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
They can share whatever ideas they want if they agree to pay taxes. Nobody is restricting anything. It's a fair compromise. Many are just violating it.
A lot of people don't pay any taxes but can still speak their mind. Some people use our tax money to help them spread their ideas even when the tax payers might not approve of them which I think is extremely immoral.

Why not tax university endowments too? I am more concerned about what my tax money goes to than I am about trying to tax more people.
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  #360  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:26 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
A lot of people don't pay any taxes but can still speak their mind. Some people use our tax money to help them spread their ideas even when the tax payers might not approve of them which I think is extremely immoral.

Why not tax university endowments too? I am more concerned about what my tax money goes to than I am about trying to tax more people.
Why should churches be tax exempt to begin with?
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  #361  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:32 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Why should churches be tax exempt to begin with?
Because it is a charity.
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  #362  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:34 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Because it is a charity.
Why should charities be allowed to engage in political speech?
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  #363  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:38 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Why should charities be allowed to engage in political speech?
Uhhh why not?
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  #364  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:40 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Uhhh why not?
Wouldn't they just endorse whatever politician give them more money and power?
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  #365  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:42 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Wouldn't they just endorse whatever politician give them more money and power?
The politicians shouldn't be giving them money and power. Their donations and attendees are voluntary.
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  #366  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:51 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
The politicians shouldn't be giving them money and power. Their donations and attendees are voluntary.
How would you feel if the Pope had officially endorsed Hillary Clinton during the election and, after she lost, said that good American Catholics all need to do everything they can to resist the current president or they'd go to Hell?
What if all that happened and then it turned out the DNC had been offering to write Catholic dogma into law?
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  #367  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:59 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
How would you feel if the Pope had officially endorsed Hillary Clinton during the election and, after she lost, said that good American Catholics all need to do everything they can to resist the current president or they'd go to Hell?

What if all that happened and then it turned out the DNC had been offering to write Catholic dogma into law?
That would be an odd thing for the pope to do. His apolitical nature helps his own credibility. He wouldn't want to lose Catholics to other faiths or even have Catholics take the pope less seriously. This also sounds oddly familiar to the criticism of Catholic presidents being more loyal to the Pope than the country which was untrue.

What kind of Catholic dogma would they be writing into law? If they started to make allows against abortion and especially birth control they would completely obliterate their own base.
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  #368  
Old 06-15-2017, 07:06 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
That would be an odd thing for the pope to do. His apolitical nature helps his own credibility. He wouldn't want to lose Catholics to other faiths or even have Catholics take the pope less seriously. This also sounds oddly familiar to the criticism of Catholic presidents being more loyal to the Pope than the country which was untrue.

What kind of Catholic dogma would they be writing into law? If they started to make allows against abortion and especially birth control they would completely obliterate their own base.
You're dodging the question.
If a large church with millions of members officially endorsed a Democratic candidate and donated lots of money to him/her in exchange for some of their religious rules becoming law, would you be okay with that?
Imagine what the president's personal pastor Paula White could do if she put millions of dollars towards politics instead of things like her $3.5 million Trump Tower condo she bought a while back.
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  #369  
Old 06-15-2017, 07:22 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
You're dodging the question.
If a large church with millions of members officially endorsed a Democratic candidate and donated lots of money to him/her in exchange for some of their religious rules becoming law, would you be okay with that?
Imagine what the president's personal pastor Paula White could do if she put millions of dollars towards politics instead of things like her $3.5 million Trump Tower condo she bought a while back.
How is this different than what any other individual or organization could do?
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  #370  
Old 06-15-2017, 07:33 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
How is this different than what any other individual or organization could do?
Most other organizations aren't based on faith and don't take the word of their leadership as literal gospel.
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  #371  
Old 06-15-2017, 07:42 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Most other organizations aren't based on faith and don't take the word of their leadership as literal gospel.
This isn't true.
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  #372  
Old 06-15-2017, 07:52 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Most other organizations aren't based on faith and don't take the word of their leadership as literal gospel.
I dunno, you've got a president that seems to read the Gospel according to Exxon, specifically the passage which reads "Climate change don't real.".
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  #373  
Old 06-15-2017, 08:08 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Trump's biggest asset will always be his enemies though.
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  #374  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:03 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Trump's biggest asset will always be his enemies though.
I really don't think his enemies are that bad in comparison.
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  #375  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:18 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
What they're doing is blatantly illegal. Churches who follow the law can keep their 501(c)(3) status. Those that don't lose it. It's as simple as that. Why do you want to protect these people breaking the law?
I don't think a worthwhile church can exist without political speech.

"We as a people should do more to help the poor." BAM. Political speech.
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