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  #376  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:21 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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I don't think a worthwhile church can exist without political speech.

"We as a people should do more to help the poor." BAM. Political speech.
The church I grew up with couldn't go a week without urging us to heal the sick, feed the hungry, aid the poor, and be kind to others. Absolutely disgraceful.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #377  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:22 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I don't think a worthwhile church can exist without political speech.

"We as a people should do more to help the poor." BAM. Political speech.
Specifically, Churches should not back specific political parties or candidates without forfeiting tax exempt status.

Moral values like helping the poor are fine, but different people have different views on how to accomplish that. If they back a candidate or party, they essentially become a very large, tax-exempt lobby, that's an uneven playing field for political parties that court religions over what actual policies would be good for the nation.
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  #378  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:24 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I really don't think his enemies are that bad in comparison.
I think they are filled with complete nut jobs.
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  #379  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:26 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I think they are filled with complete nut jobs.
And they feel the same way about Trump and his supporters.

Only way any progress is going to be made is if moderates can wrest back control of their parties from the crazies.
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  #380  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:40 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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And they feel the same way about Trump and his supporters.

Only way any progress is going to be made is if moderates can wrest back control of their parties from the crazies.
I just feel like it is like a fire blazing out of control now.
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  #381  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:45 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I just feel like it is like a fire blazing out of control now.
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  #382  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:50 AM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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It really is a fire. And every time we label the other side as "bad guys" or use other partisan hyperbole, it's just another piece of wood being thrown in.
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  #383  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:24 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Just imagine if that assassin succeeded in killing our political leaders. There was a few of them there and he had a M4 but got taken down by the police. There are other politicians receiving threatening emails and letters. Random people want their internet fame by sticking it to our elected representatives. CNN had to fire someone for having a decapitated Trump head prop. A lot of people fantasize about this stuff because they are utterly convinced that these people are illegitimate. People are working themselves up to the point by chasing after every conspiracy and some feel a moral imperative to sabotage the administration.

What if some random psycho kills Ivanka or something? Our political situation is going to get worse before it gets better. Trump hasn't even had much of a chance to really do anything. When laws and bills start being passed there will be a greater reason for these people to throw fits.
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  #384  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:29 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Specifically, Churches should not back specific political parties or candidates without forfeiting tax exempt status.

Moral values like helping the poor are fine, but different people have different views on how to accomplish that. If they back a candidate or party, they essentially become a very large, tax-exempt lobby, that's an uneven playing field for political parties that court religions over what actual policies would be good for the nation.
Except every single thing is a codeword today, right?

"Helping the poor as a society is our highest priority."
"Welcome migrants who seek shelter and refuge."
"Protect the world and environment God has given us."
"Protect the sanctity of human life, from earliest age to natural death."
"Defend the holy sacrament of marriage."
"Accept yourself and the body God gave you."

That's sort of how everything operates now. Nobody needs to say any names.
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  #385  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:36 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Why would religious people care less about what is good for the nation than anyone else would? Churches are basically charities.
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  #386  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:56 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Why would religious people care less about what is good for the nation than anyone else would? Churches are basically charities.
Yeah, right up until they're not.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #387  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:58 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Yeah, right up until they're not.
But why are taxes a prerequisite for political speech? What about people that don't pay any taxes at all or even are paid with taxes?
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  #388  
Old 06-16-2017, 06:21 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Except every single thing is a codeword today, right?

"Helping the poor as a society is our highest priority."
"Welcome migrants who seek shelter and refuge."
"Protect the world and environment God has given us."
"Protect the sanctity of human life, from earliest age to natural death."
"Defend the holy sacrament of marriage."
"Accept yourself and the body God gave you."

That's sort of how everything operates now. Nobody needs to say any names.
So are you of the opinion churches can't be taxed but should lobby in politics?
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  #389  
Old 06-16-2017, 06:24 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
So are you of the opinion churches can't be taxed but should lobby in politics?
I think everyone should be able to share their ideas and then when it comes time to vote we take all those various perspectives into account when we pick our candidates. In theory the best ideas should be the ones that survive and win out.
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  #390  
Old 06-16-2017, 06:26 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
I think everyone should be able to share their ideas and then when it comes time to vote we take all those various perspectives into account when we pick our candidates. In theory the best ideas should be the ones that survive and win out.
A church is not a person.
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  #391  
Old 06-16-2017, 06:29 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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A church is not a person.
It is a group of people.
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  #392  
Old 06-16-2017, 06:34 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
It is a group of people.
And they can all vote
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  #393  
Old 06-16-2017, 06:38 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
And they can all vote
Why can't those people share political opinions though within or outside their church?
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  #394  
Old 06-16-2017, 06:50 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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So are you of the opinion churches can't be taxed but should lobby in politics?
No, I think there's no problem with taxing them.

You guys are arguing with PJ on this.
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  #395  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:03 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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The power to tax is the power to destroy.
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  #396  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:08 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
The power to tax is the power to destroy.
That is neither Jesus Christ nor Patrick Henry.
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  #397  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:17 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
That is neither Jesus Christ nor Patrick Henry.
I am just worried that the government could try to tax churches out of existence or something if it saw them as a big enough threat. Governments seem to either like to destroy religion like China or co-opt it for ulterior reasons like Iran. Taxes are already levied unevenly depending on industry or company and the incentive and precedent to try and weaken churches seems to be there.

What exactly would they end up having to pay taxes on?
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  #398  
Old 06-17-2017, 07:43 PM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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Got the kids baptized. And now I never have to go through this again.
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  #399  
Old 06-17-2017, 07:53 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Got the kids baptized. And now I never have to go through this again.
Poor kids.
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  #400  
Old 06-17-2017, 07:56 PM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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Poor kids.
They actually handled it pretty well! No screaming, very little whining, and we all went for pizza afterwards.
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