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  #426  
Old 06-20-2017, 07:58 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
I don't get why some people hate religious people so much. I may think the Amish are weird but I don't see how what they are doing really impacts me unless they are selling cheap yummy food on a market.
I can understand. Kak just gave an example of alcohol sales. They worry about evolution not being taught. He doesn't want my kind getting finniky about condoms.

There's overlap in all our lives.
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  #427  
Old 06-20-2017, 08:40 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I can understand. Kak just gave an example of alcohol sales. They worry about evolution not being taught. He doesn't want my kind getting finniky about condoms.

There's overlap in all our lives.
Pretty much this. Religious people seem to be entirely incapable of separating religion from politics and often want their religious rules to be the law of the land. You also get people like this.
If the Amish got into office and started writing up legislation banning electronics, you might be a bit bothered by it.
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  #428  
Old 06-20-2017, 10:52 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Tbh as a relatively laissez-faire believer (borderline atheist) who puts his faith in science it was kind of unnerving getting to know a truly religious person for the first time.

He is my current roommate, he prays twice a day for quite a while, he holds somewhat fundy beliefs (all other religions and remotely bad behaviors are because of demons, gays and liberalism are literally an evil cult/plot out to get you). He also goes on and on about these things in a rather tiresome fashion. He goes to church every Sunday.

As I've said I'm pretty agnostic and it was unsettling seeing such zeal. I've mentioned before that on paper in Serbia there is like 80% religiosity but in truth because of the legacy of communism's anti-religious stances most people are very lax in their faith, going to church a few times a year and observing only the biggest holidays (though that does not stop them from acting like they are defenders of Christianity or some shit). So you don't really run into stuff like this often, or at all.
Anyway he is a nice enough guy, he legit tries to be a good Christian (though with his interpretation of it that is not all sunshine and roses) though he has his failings of course and is a wee bit hypocritical. I was at first a bit concerned about him, will he freak out about something if it clashes with his beliefs. Also there is a fear, perhaps unjustly instilled by the media, that truly religious people don't operate rationally and are a bit dangerous. I've gotten over that mostly because we've been living together for a while now without much incident. We're quite good friends really, shows that if the people in question are not assholes you can get along with all sorts.

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  #429  
Old 06-21-2017, 04:36 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
I don't get why some people hate religious people so much. I may think the Amish are weird but I don't see how what they are doing really impacts me unless they are selling cheap yummy food on a market.
I don't hate the people. The structures and institutions of religion, their histories of corruption and manipulation, and their histories of ruthless thought policing, all while claiming to hold a divine, unquestionable moral high ground. That's what I personally hate about religion.

Okay, I do hate the people too, but not because they're religious. It's because they're people.
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  #430  
Old 06-21-2017, 06:05 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I can understand. Kak just gave an example of alcohol sales. They worry about evolution not being taught. He doesn't want my kind getting finniky about condoms.

There's overlap in all our lives.
I guess the alcohol thing seems like a non-issue to me. The other two seem to be hysteria because I don't ever see those kind of things proposed or even happen.
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  #431  
Old 06-21-2017, 08:36 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I guess the alcohol thing seems like a non-issue to me. The other two seem to be hysteria because I don't ever see those kind of things proposed or even happen.
I've posted about the latter two being regular problems in southern states for the past three years...
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  #432  
Old 06-21-2017, 08:57 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Tbh as a relatively laissez-faire believer (borderline atheist) who puts his faith in science it was kind of unnerving getting to know a truly religious person for the first time.

He is my current roommate, he prays twice a day for quite a while, he holds somewhat fundy beliefs (all other religions and remotely bad behaviors are because of demons, gays and liberalism are literally an evil cult/plot out to get you). He also goes on and on about these things in a rather tiresome fashion. He goes to church every Sunday.

As I've said I'm pretty agnostic and it was unsettling seeing such zeal. I've mentioned before that on paper in Serbia there is like 80% religiosity but in truth because of the legacy of communism's anti-religious stances most people are very lax in their faith, going to church a few times a year and observing only the biggest holidays (though that does not stop them from acting like they are defenders of Christianity or some shit). So you don't really run into stuff like this often, or at all.
Anyway he is a nice enough guy, he legit tries to be a good Christian (though with his interpretation of it that is not all sunshine and roses) though he has his failings of course and is a wee bit hypocritical. I was at first a bit concerned about him, will he freak out about something if it clashes with his beliefs. Also there is a fear, perhaps unjustly instilled by the media, that truly religious people don't operate rationally and are a bit dangerous. I've gotten over that mostly because we've been living together for a while now without much incident. We're quite good friends really, shows that if the people in question are not assholes you can get along with all sorts.
Sounds pretty cool. What denomination is he?
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  #433  
Old 06-21-2017, 09:02 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Sounds pretty cool. What denomination is he?
Orthodox, most everyone is here apart some muslims in the south and Catholics in the north.
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  #434  
Old 06-21-2017, 09:16 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Orthodox, most everyone is here apart some muslims in the south and Catholics in the north.
Oh. I would've thought daily church would be the m.o. for a super super Orthodox who prays twice a day, but I suppose I don't really know.

Thanks.


EDIT: Incidentally, I've found their succinct Jesus Prayer to be among the most useful for meditation.

Quote:
Lord Jesus Christ, thou art the son of God.
Have mercy on me, a sinner.
Or some such translation.

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  #435  
Old 06-21-2017, 11:58 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Members of the religion of love are harassing and threatening a lawyer that won a case to get a state-sponsored cross taken down.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...la-cross-case/

In happier news, after 25 years, a couple that was accused of running a Satanic sex abuse & child sacrifice daycare was finally exonerated.
https://theintercept.com/2017/06/20/...ever-happened/
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  #436  
Old 06-21-2017, 12:07 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Oh. I would've thought daily church would be the m.o. for a super super Orthodox who prays twice a day, but I suppose I don't really know.
Neither do I

Though I think there are daily services in the morning.

Since you seem to be a geek of all things Christian you might want to visit Mt. Athos one day. It is a peninsula in Greece that is one huge monastic pseudo-state with many major monasteries and hundreds of minor, hermit-style ones. Non-Orthodox are allowed to visit and you'd probably enjoy it. The monasteries themselves are ancient (usually 1000+ years old) and beautiful. The whole place has a kind of tranquility I've never felt anywhere else, you can sit around for hours and just be content. And you personally could probably learn a lot from the monks there who are needles to say quite wise.
You can come with your family, leave them nearby in some tourist destination while you visit this holy place. Do note, no girls allowed on Mt. Athos which is why your wife and daughter will have to stay on the beach
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  #437  
Old 06-22-2017, 02:40 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I like this guy.

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  #438  
Old 06-22-2017, 03:11 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I've posted about the latter two being regular problems in southern states for the past three years...
I just have never met anyone that has gone to a school like that, even from the south. Not even private religious schools do that(which knock the socks off of secular public schools academically). To me it comes off as people who already hated religion confirming to their own biases. It is either a made up story or some fringe thing.

My elementary school pretty much did the exact opposite. I was put into an advanced science class and we learned about evolution and Galileo. We learned about the monkey scopes trial and how the Catholic Church didn't accept that the Earth revolved around the sun until 1996. We only ever learned when the church erred instead of when it contributed to scientific understanding, stability, or charity. I was an atheist for most of my early years because of the way they taught science in classes. I doubt that I was much different in my teens than you guys are now.

I didn't really meet much positive religious influence until I was a young adult when I started doing more volunteering and met more religious people. Went to religious memorials and heard chaplains make speeches.
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  #439  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:10 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I like this guy.
He says he just wants people to read their Bible, which would be pretty awesome. Maybe they'll see his truck and go straight home to read the verse, in doing which they'll find out that he misquoted it. After that, maybe they'll even read the surrounding verses for context.
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  #440  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:13 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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He says he just wants people to read their Bible, which would be pretty awesome. Maybe they'll see his truck and go straight home to read the verse, in doing which they'll find out that he misquoted it. After that, maybe they'll even read the surrounding verses for context.
What is the context?
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  #441  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:16 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I just have never met anyone that has gone to a school like that, even from the south.
I guess because it doesn't affect you personally it doesn't happen or doesn't exist...
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  #442  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:19 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I guess because it doesn't affect you personally it doesn't happen or doesn't exist...
I want more evidence than a few anecdotes.
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  #443  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:27 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
He says he just wants people to read their Bible, which would be pretty awesome. Maybe they'll see his truck and go straight home to read the verse, in doing which they'll find out that he misquoted it. After that, maybe they'll even read the surrounding verses for context.
Is this the part where we ask what context excuses it and you say that 1 Cor 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:12 are metaphors or something?
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  #444  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:36 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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What is the context?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...Corinthians+14

1 Corinthians 14 talks about how people should act when they meet together in churches. There are a lot of interpretations on how those verses are best interpreted, or even if this format still applies today. A strict strict interpretation of 1 Corinthians 14:30 would actually let someone sitting down interrupt the current speaker if he has a "revelation".

(It's funny. In modern times it's not so much that the women are supposed to talk now, as it is that the men aren't supposed to talk either.)

The thing reads like it's abjudicating a huge meeting where everybody wants a chance to speak or ask questions - to some, it's more descriptive of a large bible study than, say, the Passover-replicating ceremonies described elsewhere.

Quote:
1 Corinthians 14:26-35]What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

34 Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
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Is this the part where we ask what context excuses it and you say that 1 Cor 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:12 are metaphors or something?
Well, we Catholics only have male priests, but I don't think it's related.

Here's another message board talking about it: https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=895259

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  #445  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:43 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I want more evidence than a few anecdotes.
No matter what evidence I link you will just say they are a liberal biased place and ignore it anyway.
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  #446  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:47 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Well, we Catholics only have male priests
Why is that?
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  #447  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:49 PM
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Why is that?
I mean, at the end of the day, probably because sexism. Right? The dogma of the church may have been shaped to rationalize it, but come on.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #448  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:57 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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No matter what evidence I link you will just say they are a liberal biased place and ignore it anyway.
No Mutterscrawl. Usually when those instances are linked it is usually an anecdote. It feels like it is one instructor that said something.

I am 100% pro-evolution in science and religion in a social studies class. I am all about telling people about condoms and birth control even if abstinence is the only thing that is 100% effective. Sex without reproduction isn't a bad thing even if I am a monogamist. If these things are happening we should tell them no.

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I mean, at the end of the day, probably because sexism. Right? The dogma of the church may have been shaped to rationalize it, but come on.
Why are women more likely to be religious than men then?
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  #449  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:01 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Quote:
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I mean, at the end of the day, probably because sexism. Right? The dogma of the church may have been shaped to rationalize it, but come on.
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Why are women more likely to be religious than men then?
Clearly the answer to both of these are because Yahweh made women inferior.
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  #450  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:01 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Why are women more likely to be religious than men then?
Well, that's not something I'd call a direct correlation, but I'm sure I could come up with some bullshit explanation if you give me a few minutes.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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