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  #451  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:07 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Well, that's not something I'd call a direct correlation, but I'm sure I could come up with some bullshit explanation if you give me a few minutes.
http://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/22/t...und-the-world/

It is usually prevalent almost everywhere.
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  #452  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:07 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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No Mutterscrawl. Usually when those instances are linked it is usually an anecdote. It feels like it is one instructor that said something.

I am 100% pro-evolution in science and religion in a social studies class. I am all about telling people about condoms and birth control even if abstinence is the only thing that is 100% effective. Sex without reproduction isn't a bad thing even if I am a monogamist. If these things are happening we should tell them no.

I feel like you ignore prominent Republicans like Pence that already try to legislate things this way.

EDIT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/o...jan-horse.html
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  #453  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:18 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Mike Pence was my governor. Everyone took him from us. I am not sure if he would have won reelection if he didn't become VP but I don't feel like he turned Indiana into a theocracy.

Are you talking about anti-abortion bills or allowing school vouchers to go to religious schools? I don't mind those.
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  #454  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:20 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Why is that?
Mainly because Jesus's apostles and their direct successors were all males. Combine with the "many parts, one body" stuff of Corinthians and the moments when the priest personifies Christ during acts like consecration and reconciliation.

I'll vomit the catechism section and a catholicanswers page:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...m/p2s2c3a6.htm
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/pr...men-be-priests

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
I mean, at the end of the day, probably because sexism. Right? The dogma of the church may have been shaped to rationalize it, but come on.
This is when I get uncomfortable... until I invite a Protestant to lecture me on how we've historically held Mary in crazy high regard, to the point to where some folks think we worship her.
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  #455  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:37 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Are you talking about anti-abortion bills or allowing school vouchers to go to religious schools? I don't mind those.
Disengaging because this'll go nowhere since we disagree so fundamentally on this.
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  #456  
Old 06-22-2017, 06:08 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Mainly because Jesus's apostles and their direct successors were all males. Combine with the "many parts, one body" stuff of Corinthians and the moments when the priest personifies Christ during acts like consecration and reconciliation.
That's silly.

Quote:
This is when I get uncomfortable... until I invite a Protestant to lecture me on how we've historically held Mary in crazy high regard, to the point to where some folks think we worship her.
There is the argument that Catholicism could be considered polytheistic partially because of that and the billions of saints.
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  #457  
Old 06-22-2017, 06:20 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
That's silly.
Would anything count as "not silly"?

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There is the argument that Catholicism could be considered polytheistic partially because of that and the billions of saints.
Of course there is. I argue you could apply it to any monotheism, though. Judaism already had numerous angellic helpers, including Michael. For Islam, tell me there can be no grounds for confusing Muhammed with a deity.

Even a one true God usually has helpers.
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  #458  
Old 06-22-2017, 06:23 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Would anything count as "not silly"?
Allowing people to serve a role regardless of their sex as long as that role has no dependency on sexual performance?
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #459  
Old 06-22-2017, 06:24 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Allowing people to serve a role regardless of their sex as long as that role has no dependency on sexual performance?
Madness! Everyone knows the only real measure of self control is to remove anything that could be remotely tempting!
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  #460  
Old 06-22-2017, 07:13 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Allowing people to serve a role regardless of their sex as long as that role has no dependency on sexual performance?
If by "sexual" you mean according to sex, then there is the factor of when the priest acts in persona Christi, due to the manner in which Jesus Christ was in the form of a man.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_persona_Christi

On the other hand, there are sisters who are able to hold Marian devotions or even grasp the role of the bride (the bride being the church, which is all of us) on levels that males are incapable of conceiving.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 06-22-2017 at 07:25 PM..
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  #461  
Old 06-22-2017, 09:17 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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  #462  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:11 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Looks like liberalism and secularism are starting to moderate Islam like they did with Christianity.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...wa-burqa-niqab
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  #463  
Old 06-26-2017, 09:44 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Looks like liberalism and secularism are starting to moderate Islam like they did with Christianity.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...wa-burqa-niqab
Assuming you're not being sarcastic and taking a double-pronged jab at Islam and Christianity both, I am pleased. I have always said that once Islam got its Old Testament wars of extermination/Crusades stage out of its system it could be as wholesome a force as modern Judaism/Christianity.

Which, you know, you clearly don't think is very wholesome...

...So what's your angle again?
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #464  
Old 06-26-2017, 10:04 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Liberalism is the most pervasive religion.
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  #465  
Old 06-26-2017, 05:53 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Assuming you're not being sarcastic and taking a double-pronged jab at Islam and Christianity both, I am pleased. I have always said that once Islam got its Old Testament wars of extermination/Crusades stage out of its system it could be as wholesome a force as modern Judaism/Christianity.

Which, you know, you clearly don't think is very wholesome...

...So what's your angle again?
No angle. Just pointing out that I'm right in the same thing you're pointing out there.
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  #466  
Old 06-26-2017, 07:21 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Looks like liberalism and secularism are starting to moderate Islam like they did with Christianity.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...wa-burqa-niqab
Do we still get credit for things like Mendel genetics, European hospitals, abolitionism, and/or the big bang theory?
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  #467  
Old 06-26-2017, 08:02 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Do we still get credit for things like Mendel genetics, European hospitals, abolitionism, and/or the big bang theory?
Or the Civil Rights era unless people want to whitewash that MLK was a Christian man.
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  #468  
Old 06-26-2017, 08:23 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Do we still get credit for things like Mendel genetics, European hospitals, abolitionism, and/or the big bang theory?
Or more pertinent to Omacron's interests, transhumanism?
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  #469  
Old 06-26-2017, 09:25 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Supreme Court declares churches eligible for some public funds

That is interesting seeing how Gorsuch ruled on it.

Next term there is going to be a big one though.

Supreme Court agrees to hear religious liberty case next term

I wonder why they decided to pick this one up this time.
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  #470  
Old 06-26-2017, 11:40 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Or the Civil Rights era unless people want to whitewash that MLK was a Christian man.
This is kinda disingenuous considering how faith was used as an extra chain by American slave-owners.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #471  
Old 06-26-2017, 11:43 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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This is kinda disingenuous considering how faith was used as an extra chain by American slave-owners.
It was used by abolitionists too though.

Remember the people that thought "science" said African-Americans were inferior too? We has pseudo intellectuals back then too with their phrenology.
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  #472  
Old 06-27-2017, 01:01 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Do we still get credit for things like Mendel genetics, European hospitals, abolitionism, and/or the big bang theory?
Sure. Back when the Christian church was almost the only way to do any science, there were great discoveries made. IIRC, the golden age of Islam was similar.
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  #473  
Old 06-27-2017, 09:08 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
This is kinda disingenuous considering how faith was used as an extra chain by American slave-owners.
Eh... the proslavery movement threw out a slew of economic, social, regional, and religious justifications.

The abolitionist arguments were a lot more narrow.

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Sure. Back when the Christian church was almost the only way to do any science, there were great discoveries made. IIRC, the golden age of Islam was similar.
That's a good point. I ask you to consider also that the only way to do warfare was through the Christian churches. And that in this era, signs of secularism were likely to manifest in ways like crusaders sacking Constantinople, or Protestant and Catholic kingdoms allying to wage the Thirty Years War more effectively, or the French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars.
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  #474  
Old 06-27-2017, 09:15 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Eh... the proslavery movement threw out a slew of economic, social, regional, and religious justifications.

The abolitionist arguments were a lot more narrow.
Ah well, it's not my chosen path of study, but I remember being taught (at a Catholic high school, no less) that slave owners would try to teach their slaves New Testament stuff about accepting their lot because humble subservience was the path to god, whereas the slaves themselves were all jazzed up over the Old Testament's 'throw off your chains and kill your oppressors' message.
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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #475  
Old 06-27-2017, 09:34 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Ah well, it's not my chosen path of study, but I remember being taught (at a Catholic high school, no less) that slave owners would try to teach their slaves New Testament stuff about accepting their lot because humble subservience was the path to god, whereas the slaves themselves were all jazzed up over the Old Testament's 'throw off your chains and kill your oppressors' message.
No, that's all true. It's just that religion was ONE of the arguments/weapons proslavers used. With abolitionists, it was almost exclusive.

Who wants to sing?

Dixie:
Quote:
Oh, I wish I was in the land of cotton,
Old times there are not forgotten.
Look away, look away, look away Dixie Land!
In Dixie's Land, where I was born in,
early on one frosty mornin'.
Look away, look away, look away Dixie Land!

I wish I was in Dixie, Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie's Land I'll take my stand,
to live and die in Dixie.
Away, away, away down south in Dixie!
Away, away, away down south in Dixie!

There's buckwheat cakes and Injun batter,
Makes you fat or a little fatter.
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land
Then hoe it down and scratch your gravel,
To Dixie's Land I'm bound to travel.
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land

I wish I was in Dixie, Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie's Land I'll take my stand,
to live and die in Dixie.
Away, away, away down south in Dixie!
Away, away, away down south in Dixie!
Battle Hymn of the Republic:
Quote:
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:
His truth is marching on.

Glory, Glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
His day is marching on.

Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His day is marching on.

I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal";
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel,
Since God is marching on.

Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Since God is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! Be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.

Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Our God is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
While God is marching on.
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