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Old 02-10-2017, 10:08 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Default Tides of Darkness [book]

  1. What makes it so bad for a reading?
  2. What info of it has been retconned by more recent sources?
  3. What qualities that lack from Tides of Darkness we can see in higher quality Warcraft books, like The Last Guardian?
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Old 02-11-2017, 06:32 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Good morning! Let me gauge the situation with counterquestions:

1) Have you read the book? Or are you just trying to understand what you've heard?

2) When did you enter the Warcraft franchise?

3) Which Warcraft books are your favorite? Have you read The Last Guardian or Day of the Dragon, if so how did you feel about them? Have you read Lord of the Clans?

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 02-11-2017 at 06:36 AM..
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Old 02-11-2017, 08:33 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Good morning! Let me gauge the situation with counterquestions:

1) Have you read the book? Or are you just trying to understand what you've heard?

2) When did you enter the Warcraft franchise?

3) Which Warcraft books are your favorite? Have you read The Last Guardian or Day of the Dragon, if so how did you feel about them? Have you read Lord of the Clans?
1) The latter

2) Playing Warcraft III in 2007, then switched over to Vanilla WoW and then the expansions.

3) The Last Guardian is my favorite, haven't read Lord of the Clans, played Day of the Dragon in a Wc3 campaign and want to read Illidan after finishing The Silmarillion, due to the amount of praise the dindu book gets.
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:13 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Gonna echo what others here have said, made wc2 seem short, small and rather uneventful
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Old 02-11-2017, 10:09 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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The main project of Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal was to translate the game narratives of the Alliance and Horde campaigns from WC2/2x into a narrative format. BTDP benefited greatly from Golden's involvement as a co-author, and also from what look like deliberate efforts to take elements of Draenor presented in Burning Crusade and incorporate them in BTDP's narrative (there's an outcast arakkoa involved in the action and Auchindoun is characterized properly as a ruined draenei mausoleum rather than an orcish fortress).

The flaws of Tides of Darkness, to reiterate what others have said here, is that it feels patently more lifeless. Turalyon isn't a particularly interesting hero, for one. The fact that WC2 also ran with the dueling campaigns structure (rather than the sequential campaign structure that WC2x employed and WC3 refined) means that Rosenberg was tasked with creating a narrative that resembled what players played in the game, but also compiled together all of the events that we knew happened during the Second War. He didn't really have enough time to give all those events enough dramatic impact to be meaningful, though. It just feels like a laundry list of the events that were most pertinent out of both campaigns that didn't contradict each other, and without a sense of dramatic attachment to the characters (particularly because nearly zero of these characters were around in WoW in any meaningful way and largely still aren't) the whole thing just feels perfunctory.

Put another way: Beyond the Dark Portal feels like a book that fits in with the general style that Golden really established in her books in the franchise, which is notably different from Knaak's work and yet somehow still feels complementary. Rosenberg's work isn't as detailed as Knaak's, isn't as heartfelt as Golden's, and in the round really comes across as poorly implemented.

TL;DR: it's bad from a style standpoint, not great from an adaptation standpoint, and generates more questions than answers from a continuity standpoint.
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Old 02-11-2017, 02:11 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Very interesting inputs. Are there other retcons beside those presented in Chronicle vol.II?
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Old 02-11-2017, 07:37 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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  1. What makes it so bad for a reading?
  2. What info of it has been retconned by more recent sources?
  3. What qualities that lack from Tides of Darkness we can see in higher quality Warcraft books, like The Last Guardian?
1. For starters, it's not exactly well written. The prose is rather lacking and repetitive, and the structure is often so simplistic that I am not so sure that it wasn't written by Rosenberg's son or something.

2. Well, the Chronicle art has already retconned the number of paladins during the Second War, as well as the nature of the Horde's navy (juggernaughts and other armed vessels vs. simple boarding and transport ships).

There are other things as well. For example, Tides of Darkness made it seem there was no second front during the Second War, but merely the western one. Now, it has been confirmed via Twitter that Chronicle Volume II will cover all of the Khaz Modan campaigns, both the initial invasion, the fights at Thandol Span and finally the liberation of Khaz Modan, which makes it pretty clear there will be a second eastern front just as in Warcraft II, unless I am completely missing something.

3. Well, I'll speak of my two favorite books, King's Illidan and of course The Last Guardian. One of the most glaring things, in my opinion at the very least, is that where The Last Guardian and Illidan makes you feel this world is large, grand and often mysterious, Tides of Darkness (just as most Golden's books) makes you feel you are looking at some island directly translated from a game.
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Old 02-11-2017, 07:49 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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One of the most glaring things, in my opinion at the very least, is that where The Last Guardian and Illidan makes you feel this world is large, grand and often mysterious, Tides of Darkness (just as most Golden's books) makes you feel you are looking at some island directly translated from a game.
Have to agree on this.

Golden's Books are pretty good (overall), but they make the WarCraft world feel like WoW's limited gamescale is the Canon, rather than the gameplay and engine limitation we know it is.

The Books shouldn't do that, ever.
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Old 02-11-2017, 08:16 AM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

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It's been years since I've read that book. The main thing that I can remember that bothered me was that it made the war seem a lot smaller than I imagined it should be. There didn't seem to be many battles, many fronts, and what battles and fronts we did get to read about were underwhelming and didn't last long. And the armies didn't feel nearly as large and epic as you'd think the coalitions of most of the world's strongest races should be. Oh and I hadn't played much warcraft 2 at the time so I kind of expected Uther to be Lothar's second somehow, partially because I thought I remembered reading that Uther and Daelin were his lieutenants in the old History of Warcraft, so I didn't really think much of Turalyon at the time either(though this is more of a nitpicky thing, I guess).
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