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  #251  
Old 11-03-2016, 01:52 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Exactly something that leaves me wondering each time I read posts like these, and it is not only in relation to Warcraft, but any fictional world. Why do these traits have to follow the same evolutionary path as those found in our world? Why can't it be either a product or a byproduct of some other influence, be it environmental, magical or any other? And why is there a notion that a black Azerothian human must be of a different race, ethnicity, genetical background etc. than a white Azerothian human? What if there are some elements at play that can cause even true siblings to have widely varying skin colors and other physiologic features? Like, for example;

1) The curse of flesh. Perhaps the curse does not only turn vrykul into humans, but it also affects physical traits and such. That could also explain why there are no black vrykul.

2) Mutations affecting melanin levels and other physical traits are far, far more common than on Earth, resulting in a wide array of different traits even among relatives. Perhaps, since Arcane apparently does affect this as per Chronicle, this is the case in the areas where ley lines pass through?

3) Elemental affinity. Perhaps a strong elemental affinity can alter one's appearance from its birth? Say a very dark skinned (black) person would have an Earth affinity, a red haired person would have a Fire affinity and so on.
Honestly, I don't care what the explanation is- and it doesn't have to match reality's- but any time any race has an unusual, heritable appearance that differs from what most of the race looks like, it can and should be explained.



Basically, no one bats an eye when we ask "Why are blackrock orcs gray?" but people have a problem with me saying "Why are some humans black?"
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  #252  
Old 11-03-2016, 02:01 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Basically, no one bats an eye when we ask "Why are blackrock orcs gray?" but people have a problem with me saying "Why are some humans black?"
That might be my skeptical side speaking, but I think for a lot of people, this has to do with the fact that the orcs are a fictional race, whereas the humans are not.

Nevertheless, I trust that if you get that job at Blizzard, you'll try to somehow sneak a sensible explanation for this in.
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  #253  
Old 11-03-2016, 02:32 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Third mate is Silent Joe, a gilnean worgen who mostly sticks to his human shape unless in combat.
Is he called Silent Joe because he barely exists?
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  #254  
Old 11-03-2016, 02:59 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is online now

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Considering the tol'vir, dwarves and mogu also have noticeably varying skintones (be it distributed across their entire races or clearly distinguishable between clans), I'm thinking maybe it could theoretically be a trait of varying dominance and recessivity between different flesh-cursed races coming from titan-forged beings made from different mineral compositions, depending upon where the materials for their bodies were "mined." After all, congregating stone giants are frequently shown to share mineral compositions that are based upon where the player encounters them.

So some titan-forged could have been made from darker stone and metal than others, even within the ranks of the same "models" and that visible variation might surface among some of their flesh-cursed descendant races (though not all, as the fleshy vrykul, each type of fleshy giant, and the gnomes each seem pretty uniform in that area) in the form of varied skin tones.

In that way there could be light- and dark-skinned humans on Azeroth because given their ancestors were titan-forged, the whole human species might still have granite, shale, iron, copper, and any number of other minerals distributed throughout their genetic makeup, and which "elemental genes" are dominant and which ones recessive might vary from family to family, and thus person to person.

Last edited by ARM3481; 11-03-2016 at 03:02 AM..
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  #255  
Old 11-03-2016, 04:06 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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I came her to say that. But in order to keep the slightly racist vibe going on i'll add the black vykrul were probably made of Aqir dung
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  #256  
Old 11-03-2016, 05:18 AM
Galdus Galdus is offline

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Being darker than than Europeans=/=Black. Makasa would look less shoehorned (just look at her hair) for diversity points if she was a North African Caucasian or Arabian Caucasian.

And stop pulling the ''If Dragons then Blacks'' card. It was junk for the Wither 3 and it's junk here.
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  #257  
Old 11-03-2016, 05:24 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Being darker than than Europeans=/=Black. Makasa would look less shoehorned (just look at her hair) for diversity points if she was a North African Caucasian or Arabian Caucasian.

And stop pulling the ''If Dragons then Blacks'' card. It was junk for the Wither 3 and it's junk here.
There is no North African Europoid/Caucasian in Azeroth. Nor is there any Europoid/Negroid/Mongloid in Azeroth at all. Do you want to know why? Azeroth is not Earth. It has completely different rules, geography, evolutionary path (if we can even call it like that) etc. Stop forcing the rules of reality as well as your racial beliefs onto it.

Last edited by Marthen; 11-03-2016 at 05:47 AM..
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  #258  
Old 11-03-2016, 07:11 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Considering the tol'vir, dwarves and mogu also have noticeably varying skintones (be it distributed across their entire races or clearly distinguishable between clans), I'm thinking maybe it could theoretically be a trait of varying dominance and recessivity between different flesh-cursed races coming from titan-forged beings made from different mineral compositions, depending upon where the materials for their bodies were "mined." After all, congregating stone giants are frequently shown to share mineral compositions that are based upon where the player encounters them.

So some titan-forged could have been made from darker stone and metal than others, even within the ranks of the same "models" and that visible variation might surface among some of their flesh-cursed descendant races (though not all, as the fleshy vrykul, each type of fleshy giant, and the gnomes each seem pretty uniform in that area) in the form of varied skin tones.

In that way there could be light- and dark-skinned humans on Azeroth because given their ancestors were titan-forged, the whole human species might still have granite, shale, iron, copper, and any number of other minerals distributed throughout their genetic makeup, and which "elemental genes" are dominant and which ones recessive might vary from family to family, and thus person to person.
I'd say that's the best answer possible.

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There is no North African Europoid/Caucasian in Azeroth. Nor is there any Europoid/Negroid/Mongloid in Azeroth at all. Do you want to know why? Azeroth is not Earth. It has completely different rules, geography, evolutionary path (if we can even call it like that) etc. Stop forcing the rules of reality as well as your racial beliefs onto it.
The terms "caucasoid/negroid/mongloid" are all considered horribly out of date and we probably shouldn't be using them.
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  #259  
Old 11-03-2016, 07:13 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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So this is turning out how I thought it would.
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #260  
Old 11-03-2016, 07:27 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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I'd say that's the best answer possible.
It's not bad, but it still leaves the problem of why are there no dark skinned flesh vrykul.

I am more fond of mutations being way more common due to the effects of Arcane, something presented in Chronicle, at the moment.

Quote:
The terms "caucasoid/negroid/mongloid" are all considered horribly out of date and we probably shouldn't be using them.
Europid/Negroid/Caucasoid/Congoid etc. are still used in physical antropology as names for certain clusters. Though I suppose they are way more offensive in the U.S. for their past racialist connotations, and their use has thus been completely abandoned, but you know, I am not an American.

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So this is turning out how I thought it would.
Sadly, seems you were completely correct.

Last edited by Marthen; 11-03-2016 at 07:45 AM..
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  #261  
Old 11-03-2016, 07:44 AM
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So this is turning out how I thought it would.
It's SoL. What else did you expect? Candy covered kittens and chocolate puppies?
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  #262  
Old 11-03-2016, 07:46 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Dark skinned fire vrykul were the assistants of Volkhan and the other fire giants. Once they turned on the other titan forged, their vrykul assistants were the first to feel their wrath. Hence, dark skinned vrykul died out and only their stunted descendants survived to this day.
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  #263  
Old 11-03-2016, 07:48 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Anything notable about the Troll or Orc in this book? Even Booty Bay?
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #264  
Old 11-03-2016, 11:29 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I really like ARM's response, as usual :p (it also expands upon my own answer.)

Marthen, what info of Chronicles are you thinking of, specifically?

Also, just because we don't see any black vrykul, doesn't mean they don't exist. We don't see female ogres either. Furthermore, maybe that stage of the Curse of Flesh didn't allow, somehow, for the color to show? Only the human 'twist' made that difference surface.
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  #265  
Old 11-03-2016, 11:49 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Marthen, what info of Chronicles are you thinking of, specifically?
The arcane energies of the Well of Eternity speeding up the evolution process in its vicinity.
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  #266  
Old 11-03-2016, 02:37 PM
Yorenec Yorenec is offline

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Anything notable about the Troll or Orc in this book? Even Booty Bay?
There is no orc. The troll is a sand troll who dual wields crossbows and has a scorpion pet that acts as a scout for her.

Booty Bay is off-handedly mentioned like two or three times. Nothing special.
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  #267  
Old 11-03-2016, 02:43 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I thought there was a "dimwitted" orc mentioned?
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #268  
Old 11-03-2016, 02:48 PM
Euphemialibritannia Euphemialibritannia is offline

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Ogre not orc.
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  #269  
Old 11-04-2016, 06:05 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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So this is turning out how I thought it would.
Are you triggered?
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  #270  
Old 11-04-2016, 06:47 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Are you triggered?
No I just foresee all things.
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #271  
Old 11-04-2016, 06:53 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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So is there art of the entire crew?
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  #272  
Old 11-04-2016, 02:00 PM
Euphemialibritannia Euphemialibritannia is offline

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Nope, there are sketches of Captain, first mate, third mate, and the lookout. Unless you mean the crew in feralas, then yes. For the Hidden there isn't one of the Arrakoa.
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  #273  
Old 11-05-2016, 10:26 AM
Yorenec Yorenec is offline

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One thing I forgot to mention before that I just noticed while skimming through the book is that Traveler makes note of time zones for quite possibly as far as I know the very first time in the franchise. At one point while it's the middle of the night in Feralas, Aram is being homesick and thinking about Lakeshire and making note of how it's probably morning there and his stepfather has just started his work at the forge.

I thought it was pretty neat and it was a stark reminder of how badly I tend to forget about time zones in my own RP/writing.
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  #274  
Old 11-05-2016, 10:30 AM
Ratatosk Ratatosk is offline

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Is it written in third person or from Aram's point of view?
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  #275  
Old 11-05-2016, 10:31 AM
Yorenec Yorenec is offline

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Third person.

Aram is the primary POV but it occasionally switches to others.
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