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Old 08-14-2017, 07:14 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
How are any of those differebt if he's somebody with other issues? Someone you picture as lazy and immature, even if there were no incidents supporting it, for instance. Wouldnt the same thoughts cross your head?
Yeah, but lazy and immature doesn't mean they actively want to get me. A neo-Nazi does, pretty much by definition. Likewise, I'd be reluctant to work with an apolitical employee who aggressively threatened me.

I don't disagree with you about the doxxing potentially furthering radicalization. But how do you deal with these guys?
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Old 08-14-2017, 07:28 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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David Duke was cheering Trump's equivocating comments on Saturday. What Trump said today sends a clear message to the KKK and their ilk.
I'm on the fence on whether that'll be the case, actually.

Yeah, the speech he made hit all the right notes, so there's that, so while he can still be criticized for his original lukewarm/equivocating statement, at the very least he was made to recognize that "nazis r bad" is a safe statement to make.

But I wouldn't be particularly surprised if the KKK, neo-nazis and white supremacists who'd originally been emboldened by his non-condemnation weren't phased by his speech today, and just wave it off as the deep state and/or zionists forcing him to make a halfhearted statement, and that he still stands by them.
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Old 08-14-2017, 07:55 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Yeah, but lazy and immature doesn't mean they actively want to get me. A neo-Nazi does, pretty much by definition. Likewise, I'd be reluctant to work with an apolitical employee who aggressively threatened me.

I don't disagree with you about the doxxing potentially furthering radicalization. But how do you deal with these guys?
I mean... In the short term? You dont.

As rural areas get introduced to more ethnically diverse cultures, as quality of life and education improves, as life gets better, all this goes away.

Because heres the thing.. Just as first generational immigrants are also prone to cling to cultures and ways of life, but children are more likely to be "Americanized" , a lot of the rural areas need to go through the same thing. Its the same thing.
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:06 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I mean... In the short term? You dont.

As rural areas get introduced to more ethnically diverse cultures, as quality of life and education improves, as life gets better, all this goes away.

Because heres the thing.. Just as first generational immigrants are also prone to cling to cultures and ways of life, but children are more likely to be "Americanized" , a lot of the rural areas need to go through the same thing. Its the same thing.
Ah, the ol' "ignore the festering wound while it continues to vote to further infect itself" technique.
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:08 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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I mean... In the short term? You dont.

As rural areas get introduced to more ethnically diverse cultures, as quality of life and education improves, as life gets better, all this goes away.

Because heres the thing.. Just as first generational immigrants are also prone to cling to cultures and ways of life, but children are more likely to be "Americanized" , a lot of the rural areas need to go through the same thing. Its the same thing.
Yea...not going to happen. Minorities tend to aggregate and segregate within the cities, least it seems to be the case in Canada. Sometimes it happens with the wonders of Rotherham or Luton, you know mass rape like in the UK. That's not going to get people sympathetic that's just going to radicalize them further to the cause.

Furthermore, if people's tendency is toward voluntary segregation, you will never win even if you "culturally enrich" a region. This would be particularly bad if it correlates with the areas social decline.

Good luck, you will need it.
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:35 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
I mean... In the short term? You dont.

As rural areas get introduced to more ethnically diverse cultures, as quality of life and education improves, as life gets better, all this goes away.

Because heres the thing.. Just as first generational immigrants are also prone to cling to cultures and ways of life, but children are more likely to be "Americanized" , a lot of the rural areas need to go through the same thing. Its the same thing.
Fair enough. I can imagine myself putting up with a neo-Nazi coworker, but I think it's too much to ask an employer to do the same. The employer's money is on the line.

Americanization is a powerful force, but I'm worried it's declined because society has become so self-absorbed. In the past, Americans had more common experiences, but now we just go online (and yeah, I'm obviously guilty of this).

More and more, I'm thinking some form of mandatory national service would be a good thing, but there'd be a million problems with implementation.

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I'm on the fence on whether that'll be the case, actually.

Yeah, the speech he made hit all the right notes, so there's that, so while he can still be criticized for his original lukewarm/equivocating statement, at the very least he was made to recognize that "nazis r bad" is a safe statement to make.

But I wouldn't be particularly surprised if the KKK, neo-nazis and white supremacists who'd originally been emboldened by his non-condemnation weren't phased by his speech today, and just wave it off as the deep state and/or zionists forcing him to make a halfhearted statement, and that he still stands by them.
Could well be. David Duke did try to write it off as Trump being pressured by the "fake news media". It kind of astonishes me that anyone thinks Trump believes in anything.
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  #56007  
Old 08-14-2017, 08:42 PM
Tilgath Tilgath is offline

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I'm on the fence on whether that'll be the case, actually.

Yeah, the speech he made hit all the right notes, so there's that, so while he can still be criticized for his original lukewarm/equivocating statement, at the very least he was made to recognize that "nazis r bad" is a safe statement to make.

But I wouldn't be particularly surprised if the KKK, neo-nazis and white supremacists who'd originally been emboldened by his non-condemnation weren't phased by his speech today, and just wave it off as the deep state and/or zionists forcing him to make a halfhearted statement, and that he still stands by them.
I don't think they care. I'm sure some of the true believers who worship Trump were upset, but from what I can tell a good chunk of the alt-right don't really mind his new comments. They care about Bannon, Miller and Sessions. As long as those three are pushing through their policy goals, which they most definitely are, the alt-right will be happy.

It reminds me of something Ann Coulter said back during the primaries, which basically amounted to, "Trump's immigration plan alone is enough to warrant a vote for him". That immigration plan is being enacted by the above mentioned three people. In fact, that's pretty much the ONLY thing on Trump's agenda that is really being done besides getting Gorsuch on the Supreme Court.
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:47 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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I don't think they care. I'm sure some of the true believers who worship Trump were upset, but from what I can tell a good chunk of the alt-right don't really mind his new comments. They care about Bannon, Miller and Sessions. As long as those three are pushing through their policy goals, which they most definitely are, the alt-right will be happy.

It reminds me of something Ann Coulter said back during the primaries, which basically amounted to, "Trump's immigration plan alone is enough to warrant a vote for him". That immigration plan is being enacted by the above mentioned three people. In fact, that's pretty much the ONLY thing on Trump's agenda that is really being done besides getting Gorsuch on the Supreme Court.
I'm not so sure they're fond of Sessions, since he hasn't really been cooperating with Trump and stated that the alt-right consists of domestic terrorists (which is accurate).

I think the big three are Bannon, Miller, and Gorka. If Trump had any decency he'd get rid of all three, but he won't since that would cost him votes.
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  #56009  
Old 08-14-2017, 09:48 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Well that's something.







Also an important observation.

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  #56010  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:07 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Also an important observation.
There are reasons for that...
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/...w-enforcement/
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:19 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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God fucking dammit.
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  #56012  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:46 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Presidents are public figures, so they rarely speak from the heart.
Exactly my point. This didn't come from the heart. As John Olliver said, a second statement forced on him by public pressure is meaningless because his first statement is who he is.
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  #56013  
Old 08-14-2017, 11:08 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Exactly my point. This didn't come from the heart. As John Olliver said, a second statement forced on him by public pressure is meaningless because his first statement is who he is.
And... now he's tweeting about how the media's being mean to him. Since it's always about him.

I feel like an idiot for thinking he was at least taking some hesitant steps in the right direction.
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  #56014  
Old 08-14-2017, 11:21 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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And... now he's tweeting about how the media's being mean to him. Since it's always about him.

I feel like an idiot for thinking he was at least taking some hesitant steps in the right direction.
You have to keep in mind that we have a narcissist for a president.
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  #56015  
Old 08-15-2017, 12:23 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I'm not so sure they're fond of Sessions, since he hasn't really been cooperating with Trump and stated that the alt-right consists of domestic terrorists (which is accurate).

I think the big three are Bannon, Miller, and Gorka. If Trump had any decency he'd get rid of all three, but he won't since that would cost him votes.
I don't get why people think Sessions is racist. Is it because he is from Alabama? He did a lot of work against the KKK and desegregating schools. I think it just a smear that they used to stick it to Reagan when he tried to nominate him. People seem to not like his other policies but know this accusation will get them more support even if it is inaccurate.
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  #56016  
Old 08-15-2017, 12:32 AM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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I don't get why people think Sessions is racist. Is it because he is from Alabama? He did a lot of work against the KKK and desegregating schools. I think it just a smear that they used to stick it to Reagan when he tried to nominate him. People seem to not like his other policies but know this accusation will get them more support even if it is inaccurate.
I'll admit I'm not the biggest fan of Sessions, but I do respect him for sticking to the letter of the law. Trump seems indifferent to law, so it's important to have someone in the administration who cares about that.
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  #56017  
Old 08-15-2017, 01:04 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I'll admit I'm not the biggest fan of Sessions, but I do respect him for sticking to the letter of the law. Trump seems indifferent to law, so it's important to have someone in the administration who cares about that.
I just mean that false accusations of racism or fascism only empower real fascists and racists. People use it as a bludgeon for political advantage. A lot of these nazi protesters think there are more of them than there really are. A lot of other people are in disbelief that actual nazis are protesting when that college sophomore calls anyone that doesn't want to pay off his student loans a nazi. Trump is a blowhard but his enemies remain his greatest asset. I wish Trump would unequivocally say that if any of these neo nazis or white supremacists voted for him they made a big mistake.

Trump was actually considering running for president in 2000 for the Reform party. He said this about leaving:

He should know better.

Both antifa and these neo nazis are a weird fetishation of the past. Communism and fascism lost in a big way in the 20th century. I feel like they are more attention seeking and malcontent than anything else. They just thrive off of negative attention.
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  #56018  
Old 08-15-2017, 01:09 AM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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I just mean that false accusations of racism or fascism only empower real fascists and racists. People use it as a bludgeon for political advantage. A lot of these nazi protesters think there are more of them than there really are. A lot of other people are in disbelief that actual nazis are protesting when that college sophomore calls anyone that doesn't want to pay off his student loans a nazi. Trump is a blowhard but his enemies remain his greatest asset. I wish Trump would unequivocally say that if any of these neo nazis or white supremacists voted for him they made a big mistake.

Trump was actually considering running for president in 2000 for the Reform party. He said this about leaving:



He should know better.

Both antifa and these neo nazis are a weird fetishation of the past. Communism and fascism lost in a big way in the 20th century. I feel like they are more attention seeking and malcontent than anything else. They just thrive off of negative attention.
False accusations do a lot more harm than good. But when they wave the Nazi flag... we have to call them Nazis.

As I've said, I don't think Trump is personally a racist. I truly don't think he believes in anything. Alt-rightists are attention-seeking malcontents, but that was true of the original Nazis as well. I dunno; I just think we're past the point where we can dismiss them.

They have the right to speak, but everyone else needs to stand up and call them out as the Nazis they are. Thankfully a lot of people are doing that.

Here's Republican governor Henry McMaster calling out the Nazis.

http://www.wltx.com/news/local/sc-go...try/464297810?
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  #56019  
Old 08-15-2017, 01:36 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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The people in Charlotteville were nazis. A lot of opportunists are trying to conflate them with other people they don't like though by saying they are representative of the other tribe. They hate them more then they hate the nazis.

Trump has always been really opinionated when it comes to politics. I do think he has core beliefs but for the things he is less interested in he just goes with the flow. He has always been critical of trade deals and I think he is sincere about that. It is an opinion that for decades he has championed and isn't one that either mainstream political party had any opposition towards.
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  #56020  
Old 08-15-2017, 02:03 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I don't get why people think Sessions is racist.
Really?
Fucking really?
You don't understand why people might find the guy who said himself that he liked the KKK until he found out they smoked weed just a bit racist?
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  #56021  
Old 08-15-2017, 04:38 AM
Tilgath Tilgath is offline

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Originally Posted by HlaaluStyle View Post
I'm not so sure they're fond of Sessions, since he hasn't really been cooperating with Trump and stated that the alt-right consists of domestic terrorists (which is accurate).

I think the big three are Bannon, Miller, and Gorka. If Trump had any decency he'd get rid of all three, but he won't since that would cost him votes.
Yeah, I doubt they're happy about him naming them terrorists. But at least before yesterday, he was the most active in pushing the alt-right's agenda. Immigration stuff, border stuff, going after affirmative action, etc. Like I said, aside from the true believers, a lot of the alt-right don't really care about Trump all that much. They just liked him because they thought he would push their most important issue, which is drastically limiting non-white immigration.
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:16 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Enough about the NeoNazis, let's talk about the folks opposing them.











EDIT: And a Reminder

Don't Be A Sucker.
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  #56023  
Old 08-15-2017, 08:26 AM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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About time Discord shut that down, though another will take its place. And another, and so on.

Also, that "Don't Be A Sucker" video is rather naive. Telling someone that what they think is wrong and presenting them with facts that prove it would not have prevented WWII or the Nazi take-over. Charisma, promises (some of which were actually kept), and results are what won people over. Same happens in America. Hell, that's part of the reason we had Trump as president in the first place. People fell for his charisma, his lies. Insulting them by calling them names, even passive-aggressively, will only make them think they're in the right moreso. If you alienate people for their opinions, it will only drive them into believing them more because they think you are in the wrong, or part of a conspiracy, or whatever reason they come up with.
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  #56024  
Old 08-15-2017, 08:39 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Meh, it's not about facts. It's about factions.
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:42 AM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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Meh, it's not about facts. It's about factions.
Alternative facts strike again!
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