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  #7951  
Old 04-20-2019, 11:20 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Rhllor View Post
the warlocks caused many problems in the history of azeroth and the alliance and the horde continue to tolerate them.
Which was, frankly, idiotic. But, at least, warlock magic may be destructive and seductive, but not innately maddening nor directly under the influence of beings bent on devouring the universe.

Void magic has been painted as way worse lately.

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that some void elves who become evil and join nzoth is as common as some warlocks become evil and join the legion.
Which would prove void elves are no more masters of the Void than anyone else.

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There is no need to ban something just because a couple of bad apples did something wrong.
It is if you are drinking bad apple juice regularly.

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On what is the narrative purpose of the void elves I think we will see it in the war that we will have sooner or later with the lightbound of draenor! Exarch Garrosh and Yrel are going to cause problems in the future that's for sure.
So, they were introduced in BfA for what purpose? For us to wait two or more years before they become relevant?

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The idea of void elves is to show that not all void is bad
And thus corrupting them as early as this sends the wrong message.
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  #7952  
Old 04-20-2019, 11:36 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Which was, frankly, idiotic. But, at least, warlock magic may be destructive and seductive, but not innately maddening nor directly under the influence of beings bent on devouring the universe.

Void magic has been painted as way worse lately.


Which would prove void elves are no more masters of the Void than anyone else.


It is if you are drinking bad apple juice regularly.


So, they were introduced in BfA for what purpose? For us to wait two or more years before they become relevant?


And thus corrupting them as early as this sends the wrong message.
I repeat that a few void elves go evil, does not mean that the whole race is going bad!

blizzard tends to tell stories of their races after a long time is not new, it took a long time to give real importance to some races like the draenei!

currently the race of the alliance that is having much development are the kultiran human
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  #7953  
Old 04-20-2019, 12:22 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Rhllor View Post
I repeat that a few void elves go evil, does not mean that the whole race is going bad!

blizzard tends to tell stories of their races after a long time is not new, it took a long time to give real importance to some races like the draenei!

currently the race of the alliance that is having much development are the kultiran human
Being new is no excuse for being poorly done, and not being the main focus is no excuse to not be developed in side quests or to have certain areas' dedicated to them.

The fact that a playable race has been out for 14 months and 4 patches, and we are already seeing a fifth patch in the PTR, without having any development speaks volumes of how much thought Blizzard put into it.

This is the same exact type of conversation I've had in forums 14 months ago. I've been right for over an year, and I'll still be right for at least the next three or so months until 8.2.5 hits the PTR. How many more years need to pass by before you consider the wait too long?

And before you talk of draenei or worgen, just remember they at least had starting zones and some amount of lore already existing previous to their debut.
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  #7954  
Old 04-20-2019, 12:35 PM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Being new is no excuse for being poorly done, and not being the main focus is no excuse to not be developed in side quests or to have certain areas' dedicated to them.

The fact that a playable race has been out for 14 months and 4 patches, and we are already seeing a fifth patch in the PTR, without having any development speaks volumes of how much thought Blizzard put into it.

This is the same exact type of conversation I've had in forums 14 months ago. I've been right for over an year, and I'll still be right for at least the next three or so months until 8.2.5 hits the PTR. How many more years need to pass by before you consider the wait too long?

And before you talk of draenei or worgen, just remember they at least had starting zones and some amount of lore already existing previous to their debut.
umbric appears in the alliance's war campaign, voids elves play a role in battle of dazar alor !!

It could be little but it is something. they are not the focus of the expa for now maybe when Nzoth is released it will have more importance and without doubt when we fight against AU xera
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  #7955  
Old 04-20-2019, 12:50 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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One might consider that joining the Twilight's Hammer doesn't necessarily start with succumbing to the whispers of the Void. Like pretty much every crazy cult on Azeroth, the Twilight's Hammer also gains recruits through those hungering for personal power without regard for the rules and those who've become disaffected with the societies they live in.

So having void elves in the Twilight's Hammer could just be a result of a handful of individual ren'dorei who don't much care for Alleria's lessons in learning control and restraint in dealing with the Void's power, and so sought out a group that won't care how reckless and experimental they are with their powers.

Some people are just reckless and arrogant, and these are elves we're talking about. If you're such a one you don't necessarily have to be a crazed nihilist to think you've got your own, better ideas for harnessing power than the ones being espoused by Alleria and Umbric, while also knowing that they aren't going to let you just hang around doing your own thing if they think doing so will endanger everyone else.

Remember, the Black Harvest hunted down and interrogated Twilight cultists for knowledge of the Void. There could just be some ren'dorei who think they've got this whole "keep the voices out" thing handled without Alleria's help and instead decided the best way to find out more about using the Void would be to dive in headfirst and consort with those guys who serve the Old Gods.

For every warlock who treats with demons carefully and at arm's length, there have been plenty of others who outright make deals with agents of the Legion thinking they're savvy and strong enough to pull one over on the top dogs of fel magic, only to end up entrapped and corrupted into serving the demons instead of the other way around.
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  #7956  
Old 04-20-2019, 01:03 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Another thing to consider, the playable ren'dorei might not be as unique as we believe them to be.

The phenomenon that led to them being turned into void elves could possibly be replicated. It did not seem to require very specific conditions that can only be met once in a lifetime. In fact, it is implied that the void elves are turning willing blood and high elves into void elves.

If the void elves (and the ethereals) can do it, it is not unlikely that others might also be able to. Especially if said others are already in league with the Old Gods or the Void Lords. We already saw void ethereals, krokul and elves, why should the TH not grant this "gift" to favoured servants? If Blizzard had the models, I would not be surprised if we saw void humans, gnomes, orcs and all the other races serving the Twilight's Hammer, just like we did in Hearthstone. (Though their tentacles were more fleshy looking.)
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  #7957  
Old 04-20-2019, 01:24 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Another thing to consider, the playable ren'dorei might not be as unique as we believe them to be.
Well, then Blizzard needs to tell that story.

Because so far there's none. We're just left to guessing.

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For every warlock who treats with demons carefully and at arm's length, there have been plenty of others who outright make deals with agents of the Legion thinking they're savvy and strong enough to pull one over on the top dogs of fel magic, only to end up entrapped and corrupted into serving the demons instead of the other way around.
I think it's a different matter because void elves are few and they don't come from anywhere. It's not like there's different groups of void elves or that any elf can turn voidy through their own studies.

For a small group of scholars, they either are being reckless and creating more void elves without any trials and scrutinity to accept new members (if they can create more, as there's another story not told), or they are not policing each other. A small group should know each other really well. An elf that goes missing or joins the Twilight's Hammer should raise concern.

Again: We're just left to guessing. They are desperately needing a story. You can't leave a book unfinished at the prelude and expect it to be considered a full story.

It would be nice to know the clear answers to at least some of the many questions left hanging:

Alleria: What’s she doing? Where are her inner conflicts? How is her relationship with her husband? Her son? Her living sister? Her Alliance Expedition followers? How is the training with her void elves going? Are there any conflicts with the void elves?

Umbric: Where does he come from? Does he have a family? Why was he so obsessed with the Void to choose his studies over his homeland? Who are his favorite acolytes? Why did they remain loyal to him even in exile?

Void elves: What is their ethos? Are there troublesome ones? Are there promising ones? Are there any who disagree with Alleria’s or Umbric’s views? Are there ones who have been lost to the Void already?

Who are their recruits? Why would non-scholars seek to become void elves? How do they create more? Why would they even want to create more? What are the trials to see if an elf is worthy of the transformation? What measures do they take to keep the Void under control?

Diplomacy: What do they think of the races of the Alliance? How is their relationship with the high elves? What about the night elves? The lightforged? What races are closest to them? What races shun them the most?
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  #7958  
Old 04-20-2019, 03:31 PM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Well, then Blizzard needs to tell that story.

Because so far there's none. We're just left to guessing.



I think it's a different matter because void elves are few and they don't come from anywhere. It's not like there's different groups of void elves or that any elf can turn voidy through their own studies.

For a small group of scholars, they either are being reckless and creating more void elves without any trials and scrutinity to accept new members (if they can create more, as there's another story not told), or they are not policing each other. A small group should know each other really well. An elf that goes missing or joins the Twilight's Hammer should raise concern.

Again: We're just left to guessing. They are desperately needing a story. You can't leave a book unfinished at the prelude and expect it to be considered a full story.

It would be nice to know the clear answers to at least some of the many questions left hanging:

Alleria: What’s she doing? Where are her inner conflicts? How is her relationship with her husband? Her son? Her living sister? Her Alliance Expedition followers? How is the training with her void elves going? Are there any conflicts with the void elves?

Umbric: Where does he come from? Does he have a family? Why was he so obsessed with the Void to choose his studies over his homeland? Who are his favorite acolytes? Why did they remain loyal to him even in exile?

Void elves: What is their ethos? Are there troublesome ones? Are there promising ones? Are there any who disagree with Alleria’s or Umbric’s views? Are there ones who have been lost to the Void already?

Who are their recruits? Why would non-scholars seek to become void elves? How do they create more? Why would they even want to create more? What are the trials to see if an elf is worthy of the transformation? What measures do they take to keep the Void under control?

Diplomacy: What do they think of the races of the Alliance? How is their relationship with the high elves? What about the night elves? The lightforged? What races are closest to them? What races shun them the most?
my main problem with umbric will come after 8.2

umbric says she loves quelthalas and is currently fighting for the alliance because she knows that sylvanas is very evil and can not allow her to use azerite for bad things and wants to see quelthalas free from the influence of sylvanas, all this comes down in this patch
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  #7959  
Old 04-20-2019, 06:55 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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There's also the possibility that with the increasing coalescence of the Void in the story as a cohesive adversary, the Twilight's Hammer and other Old God minions might be interacting more with direct Void adherents like the Shadowguard/Ethereum.

So they might be learning how to create - and become - void elves and void-altered derivatives of other races themselves. Who knows; if void elves appear in the Twilight's Hammer they might not even be from the "batch" of void elves we know; they could be high and blood elf cultists who've been successfully void-corrupted into whatever Nether-Prince Durzaan was trying to transform Umbric and his followers into before Alleria and the player interceded.
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  #7960  
Old 04-21-2019, 04:45 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Yay, ARM-senpai agrees with me!
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  #7961  
Old 04-21-2019, 05:22 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Void Elves received great amounts of content and exposure in 8.0 and 8.1.

I see no reason to start complaining and shitting all over it just because there are some of them in the Twilight's Hammer cult.

Of all things to be possibly sensitive about, people choose this ridiculously small detail.
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  #7962  
Old 04-21-2019, 05:44 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Void Elves received great amounts of content and exposure in 8.0 and 8.1.
They were featured heavily, but still close to zero development.

There's a ton of unanswered questions. The most development they got since their debut was in Umbric's gossip text.

I'm still waiting for a story about them, not just featuring them.
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  #7963  
Old 04-21-2019, 08:52 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Some interesting details from the Horde version of the Mechagon intro. (It seems to be more detailed than the Alliance's, though there's a lot of unused broadcast text that relates to events that happen in the Alliance quests so maybe its not finished).

-The questline really emphasizes how great and nice a person Gazlowe is by goblin standards, here's one example where they say how much better he treats his employees than Gallywix does:


-They really seem to be focusing Mag'har and goblins as natural allies and the Mag'har's niche being a "tech race."




-Gazlowe references how you and him are no strangers to rebelling against cruel leaders...

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  #7964  
Old 04-21-2019, 11:06 PM
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I love the Contrast of Gazlowe with Gallywix.

I also love that Ricket is working solidly with the Horde, that's refreshing.
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  #7965  
Old 04-21-2019, 11:33 PM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Is Gallywix gonna last though? He's the one bankrolling Sylvanas after all.

If he's gotta go, I want him to go out with a bang. Have him invite the other Trade Princes for a meeting, murder them, and then declare himself Trade King.
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  #7966  
Old 04-22-2019, 09:10 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Nah Galywix will be evil Warchief no.3

At least they are seeding the story and his replacement early...
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  #7967  
Old 04-22-2019, 10:12 AM
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Nah Galywix will be evil Warchief no.3

At least they are seeding the story and his replacement early...
Next evil “Warchief” is Tyrande, I say.

There’s no way Teldrassil can be forgiven, and that night warrior thing seems to be nasty in the long run.

They are already seeding her replacement in Shandris.
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  #7968  
Old 04-22-2019, 01:37 PM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Next evil “Warchief” is Tyrande, I say.

There’s no way Teldrassil can be forgiven, and that night warrior thing seems to be nasty in the long run.

They are already seeding her replacement in Shandris.
undead tyrande!!
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  #7969  
Old 04-22-2019, 02:37 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Leave night elves alone, you monsters!
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  #7970  
Old 04-22-2019, 03:39 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Leave night elves alone, you monsters!
People wanted night elves to be savage and relevant. Blizzard raised the monkey paw and granted the wish.

But seriously, it's just the direction I feel they are going with her. The Darkshore and night warrior seem to be seeding for future stories. And, with Tyrande absent from the freaking Azshara patch, I think Shandris is set to be her eventual replacement.
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  #7971  
Old 04-22-2019, 05:55 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
People wanted night elves to be savage and relevant. Blizzard raised the monkey paw and granted the wish.

But seriously, it's just the direction I feel they are going with her. The Darkshore and night warrior seem to be seeding for future stories. And, with Tyrande absent from the freaking Azshara patch, I think Shandris is set to be her eventual replacement.
There is one datamined conversation that suggests Tyrande is in Nazjatar, though she's definitely playing second fiddle to Shandris:

Unknown_Female: By the moon, I have not seen this land for centuries.
Unknown_Female: Still, Azshara's touch lingers here. She would have our people in ruin just like the Horde, a decision for which I will not stand.
Unknown_Female: Tyrande, you have already done much for our people in Darkshore, perhaps it would be best to let someone else handle things here?
Unknown_Female: No, for the times ahead we will need to unite as we did once before, I will not cower away from the maddened queen like Thalyssra's people did. The Kaldorei stand proud.
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  #7972  
Old 04-22-2019, 06:28 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
There is one datamined conversation that suggests Tyrande is in Nazjatar, though she's definitely playing second fiddle to Shandris:

Unknown_Female: By the moon, I have not seen this land for centuries.
Unknown_Female: Still, Azshara's touch lingers here. She would have our people in ruin just like the Horde, a decision for which I will not stand.
Unknown_Female: Tyrande, you have already done much for our people in Darkshore, perhaps it would be best to let someone else handle things here?
Unknown_Female: No, for the times ahead we will need to unite as we did once before, I will not cower away from the maddened queen like Thalyssra's people did. The Kaldorei stand proud.
That's interesting, I had not seen that conversation before.
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  #7973  
Old 04-22-2019, 06:31 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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That's interesting, I had not seen that conversation before.
I'm not even 100% sure where it came from. It got linked on the SoL discord last week with the poster saying they saw in another discord.
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  #7974  
Old 04-22-2019, 09:06 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Smells like fanon
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  #7975  
Old 04-23-2019, 12:07 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Smells like fanon
It's possible, datamining is a mess right now. It would be super easy for the bigger sites to have missed something or for someone to make something up and have it be difficult to disprove.


Update: new build with interesting information. Sylvanas talks about her true plan again (without saying what it was) and it reveals what exactly was going on with her connection to Nazjatar:

Xal'atath (the blade not the entity, we know it can still speak from the Crucible of Storms quests) told her about Azshara's trap. Sylvanas deliberately sends the Horde fleet there to lure out the Alliance fleet so that both fleets will be destroyed to ensure "substantial casualties on both sides." Her reasoning to the player being that she's going to have everyone she suspects of being disloyal to her sent with the fleet so they'll all be killed by Azshara. She also says the war "is serving its purpose" while the player should "focus on the endgame."

Even more worrying, Sylvanas' plan lines up exactly with this line from the 7.3.5 dream journal quotes:

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Ogmot sees lady wrapped in dark swirlies. She leads herd of blind sheep.

Da sheepies follow her everplace she go. Do everthin she say. Never doubt lady.

She guide dem over tall cliff! SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT! Stupid sheepies!

Da crows get fat eatin da sheepflesh. Da lady laugh as crows eat!

Ogmot laugh too!

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