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  #12626  
Old 08-30-2017, 11:20 PM
Almed Almed is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
I wouldn't discount having a finale for the class campaigns in the next patch just yet.

@Kiraser, it's also possible that the world soul doesn't allow for demons killed even in the Nether to return, but maybe those killed even on Argus. This would mean Archimonde and Kil'jaeden are right out.

Or not, of course.
Archimonde's Twisting Nether fight isn't in canon.
  #12627  
Old 08-30-2017, 11:36 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by Almed View Post
Archimonde's Twisting Nether fight isn't in canon.
My fanfiction is that it's all part of his plan: he did it once before, with Thal'kiel, why not with Sargeras? In other words: he got himself killed on Draenor on purpose, explaining why a bunch of mortals were able to kick his ass.
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  #12628  
Old 08-30-2017, 11:45 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Almed View Post
Archimonde's Twisting Nether fight isn't in canon.
The exact answer at Blizzcon was that they weren't sure whether it was canon or not, and Archimonde's fate is up in the air. Given we haven't heard from him in Legion, I'd say its safe to assume he's dead, or at least hasn't regenerated yet.
  #12629  
Old 08-30-2017, 11:51 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
And while it would have seemed impossible once, these AoL draenei are more boring than our draenei have ever been. They're just even holier draenei with concentrated Light-juice in their veins making them superpowered ultra-paladins. And the Krokul of Argus are just a rehash of those in Outland; same aesthetic, same stealth abilities, and they're even inexplicably shamans as well for no good reason. "The land still listens to us?" It never did; shamanism was never a thing for the eredar. If it had been the draenei wouldn't have considered it this weird orcish practice when the Broken first brought it to them.
A lot of things can happen in 10 thousand years, ARM.

Just look at how recent shamanism is for Draenor Draenei. That's more than enough time for something similar to happen in Argus.
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  #12630  
Old 08-30-2017, 11:54 PM
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Archimonde not being in Legion can be addressed by him apparently not having a place in the story they were trying to tell. After all, he doesn't have Kil'jaeden's rivalry with Velen for him to be there for the Draenei's bits. Since it's obvious now they're not actually ending the Legion as a faction (too many loose end demons) I'd wait until the Void goes full throttle to call him super dead.
  #12631  
Old 08-31-2017, 12:14 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
The exact answer at Blizzcon was that they weren't sure whether it was canon or not, and Archimonde's fate is up in the air. Given we haven't heard from him in Legion, I'd say its safe to assume he's dead, or at least hasn't regenerated yet.
Honestly, it would have been an overkill for him to regenerate so quickly anyway. Warlords of Draenor happened a decade after Hyjal, and even still, so "quick" regeneration could be used to explain why he felt so less powerful than before, but a year? That's too little.

I myself am hopeful Archimonde is not finished. Unlike Kil'jaeden, who has always been tied closely to Sargeras and his mission, Archimonde has been somewhat a loose cannon ever since his inception in Warcraft III, and as such, it would be fitting for him to create his own "Legion" with Sargeras and Kil'jaeden out of picture. But to do that, he need to be alive.
  #12632  
Old 08-31-2017, 12:26 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
A lot of things can happen in 10 thousand years, ARM.

Just look at how recent shamanism is for Draenor Draenei. That's more than enough time for something similar to happen in Argus.
Yea I was thinking the same thing. It's not like shamanism is some unique thing for the orcs and both tauren and orcs figured it out on 2 different planets so it's not like the draenei/broken left on Argus couldn't figure out other ways to fight over the past 20 thousand years.
  #12633  
Old 08-31-2017, 12:41 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Yea I was thinking the same thing. It's not like shamanism is some unique thing for the orcs and both tauren and orcs figured it out on 2 different planets so it's not like the draenei/broken left on Argus couldn't figure out other ways to fight over the past 20 thousand years.
Especially since, if they're like the Outland broken, they are incapable of using the Light, which means they wouldn't be able to use anything they learned from Velen.

I wonder if the reason the Army of the Light has never helped the krokul before now is because they can't use the Light, so Xe'ra saw them as worthless or something?
  #12634  
Old 08-31-2017, 01:01 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
A lot of things can happen in 10 thousand years, ARM.

Just look at how recent shamanism is for Draenor Draenei. That's more than enough time for something similar to happen in Argus.
Except Outland still had an idyllic Nagrand largely untouched by the fel where the elements still existed in harmony. Nobundo wasn't in Shadowmoon Valley when the spirits reached out to him, because in places like Shadowmoon Valley the spirits are completely out of their minds.

Argus has been a fel-blasted hellhole for 25,00 years. Based on everything we've seen the elements there should be completely insane at this point.

Moreover, he tells Velen that the land still listens to them. As if it doing so is something the eredar would have know it did before the fall of Argus, back when they didn't know about shamanism.

It's just a lame copy-paste. "Oh, more Broken? Just make them exactly like the old Broken except with no explanation why. Kinda like all these AoL draenei with nobody asking where they came from."

So much lore built up throughout this expansion, then chucked aside in favor of dumping a bunch of handwaved stuff on us with no buildup instead. Meh.

Even the return of Turalyon and Alleria is abrupt and jarring. There's frankly zero logical reason for the AoL not to have tried to contact Azeroth unless they were outright incapacitated the whole time; being at the head of an army this whole time just makes it dumb and really incompetent on their part.

I just...never have I felt so ambivalent about a major content patch, let alone one so heavy with lore. We're taking the fight to the Burning Legion itself - arguably the primary antagonists of WarCraft in its entirety - and they've managed to present it in such a manner that I barely even care.
  #12635  
Old 08-31-2017, 01:04 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Especially since, if they're like the Outland broken, they are incapable of using the Light, which means they wouldn't be able to use anything they learned from Velen.

I wonder if the reason the Army of the Light has never helped the krokul before now is because they can't use the Light, so Xe'ra saw them as worthless or something?
Yea she probably would see them as lesser and maybe she couldn't purify them like she could demons. Like how many of the lightforged may very well have been Eredar.
  #12636  
Old 08-31-2017, 01:06 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Argus has been a fel-blasted hellhole for 25,00 years. Based on everything we've seen the elements there should be completely insane at this point.
Do we know that?
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  #12637  
Old 08-31-2017, 02:45 AM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
I wouldn't discount having a finale for the class campaigns in the next patch just yet.
Agreed. There's still the question of what becomes of our artifact weapons. They could resolve that in a final class quest.

For example: With the DKs, Bolvar finally makes his move, trying to take over Acherus. The Deathlord tries to break the mark Bolvar placed on him at the start of Legion but only manages to do this by exhausting all of his artifact's power, leaving it inert and useless.
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  #12638  
Old 08-31-2017, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
Agreed. There's still the question of what becomes of our artifact weapons. They could resolve that in a final class quest.

For example: With the DKs, Bolvar finally makes his move, trying to take over Acherus. The Deathlord tries to break the mark Bolvar placed on him at the start of Legion but only manages to do this by exhausting all of his artifact's power, leaving it inert and useless.
I don't expect the Lich King to act just yet, and he does act, it will be in a very different way from Arthas. He may not even be a traditional villain we must beat, but maybe someone like Illidan or Sylvanas, which will have its followers but don't direct oppose us.

I think we will see a final questline in which we stash our Artifacts so they can used by future heroes to defend Azeroth. Each Artifact would get its concluding storyline.

Thas'dorah is returned to Alleria (which may pass it on to Vereesa) OR is returned to Quel'thalas, maybe?
Talonclaw is guarded again by the Highmountain.
The BM gun is stashed in Ulduar.
Ashbringer is guarded by the Silver Hand.
The DK blades may be given to the Lich King, or maybe each one ends up in the hands of one of the Four Horsemen.
And so on.

I can see that happening in the Pre-patch of next expansion, when the Artifact system is removed and the classes retooled. By then, the artifacts will be just stat sticks anyway, and the quest may give us weapons to start the next expansion.
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  #12639  
Old 08-31-2017, 05:59 AM
Gnivil Gnivil is offline

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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Yea I was thinking the same thing. It's not like shamanism is some unique thing for the orcs and both tauren and orcs figured it out on 2 different planets so it's not like the draenei/broken left on Argus couldn't figure out other ways to fight over the past 20 thousand years.
Hell from what we can gather pretty much every race that can be a shaman learned it independently, with the possible exception of the goblins who may or may not have learned it from the trolls.
  #12640  
Old 08-31-2017, 06:18 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Honestly, it would have been an overkill for him to regenerate so quickly anyway. Warlords of Draenor happened a decade after Hyjal, and even still, so "quick" regeneration could be used to explain why he felt so less powerful than before, but a year? That's too little.

I myself am hopeful Archimonde is not finished. Unlike Kil'jaeden, who has always been tied closely to Sargeras and his mission, Archimonde has been somewhat a loose cannon ever since his inception in Warcraft III, and as such, it would be fitting for him to create his own "Legion" with Sargeras and Kil'jaeden out of picture. But to do that, he need to be alive.
How is Archimonde less powerful? We're always being touted as being more powerful than any army. There's not much consistency on how long it takes a demon to regenerate, and some of them need all of their organs to do so.

We have Dreadlords to take over the Legion.
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  #12641  
Old 08-31-2017, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
While I agree that different accents (and even languages) are a very likely possibility, why are Russian Draenei from a backwater region?
I didn't mean anything by it, was just making a lighthearted joke and that was the first accent I wrote down. "Haha wouldn't it be funny if Velen was backwater", not that Russians are.

Last edited by Asterisk; 08-31-2017 at 07:18 AM..
  #12642  
Old 08-31-2017, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Gnivil View Post
Hell from what we can gather pretty much every race that can be a shaman learned it independently, with the possible exception of the goblins who may or may not have learned it from the trolls.
Was it RPG-lore or WCIII manual lore that Thrall based his revisionist orc shamanism mostly off of Tauren traditions?
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  #12643  
Old 08-31-2017, 08:23 AM
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Was it RPG-lore or WCIII manual lore that Thrall based his revisionist orc shamanism mostly off of Tauren traditions?
Yes.

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Crowley is later found to have been taken captive by the Naga on the Broken Shore alongside many other warriors. If the player is an Alliance Warrior, they free him, and he aids them in freeing the other warriors from the front. His counterpart for the Horde is Eitrigg. Notably, unlike Eitrigg who does not have this function, if the Warrior frees any Forsaken, Crowley has a chance to run up and instantly kill them. If a pack of warriors is freed and he does this, any Worgen freed will also cheer.
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  #12644  
Old 08-31-2017, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Do we know that?
Given kiljaeden has been hunting velen for more than 25k years yes.

also Kiljaeden and so on could still be alive as sargeras just needs a world soul to ressurect demons in the nether.

So there is still hope that legion might become interesting again.

Instead of staying lame for a patch.

Last edited by Gurzog; 08-31-2017 at 08:47 AM..
  #12645  
Old 08-31-2017, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
I didn't mean anything by it, was just making a lighthearted joke and that was the first accent I wrote down. "Haha wouldn't it be funny if Velen was backwater", not that Russians are.
Check my post's icon, comrade.
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:17 PM
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  #12647  
Old 08-31-2017, 12:32 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Gurzog View Post
Given kiljaeden has been hunting velen for more than 25k years yes.

also Kiljaeden and so on could still be alive as sargeras just needs a world soul to ressurect demons in the nether.
Doesn't mean the planet was fel-ridden for the whole 25 thousand years and devoid of nature and elements.
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  #12648  
Old 08-31-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Doesn't mean the planet was fel-ridden for the whole 25 thousand years and devoid of nature and elements.
Given what they did to broken shore in about a day i would say that they did all that in about max a year.
  #12649  
Old 08-31-2017, 12:53 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Apparently the key to taming panthara is throwing talbuk meat at them.
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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Doesn't mean the planet was fel-ridden for the whole 25 thousand years and devoid of nature and elements.
I mean it was definitely fel that long. But even in Outland, even in Shadowmoon Valley, the elements still existed. I don't know why they wouldn't on Argus.
  #12650  
Old 08-31-2017, 02:49 PM
neoshadow neoshadow is offline

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1. maybe demonic souls are drawn to large sources of nether energy. If they're in the nether without a beacon (like antorus) the souls dissipate because there is no one point for them to go.

2. Didnt Illidan say you had an immortal *demon* soul if you die in the dh starting zone, in the nether?
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