Originally Posted by Krainz

Seven thousand people upvoting several different memes about Teldrassil surely shows that they like the idea. How can you not think that?

You can open the wow subreddit and any time to see how hard it is for a post to get over five thousand upvotes.

Your comparison would be valid if I showed the score and interactions of submissions that regarded the BFA reveal.

As for your second point, it's Warcraft. Imagine the fan backlash there would be from High Elf fans if Warcraft III was a MMO.

Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl

If a meme is funny or not does not amount to wholesale endorsement of the decision to burn teldrassil, they're not remotely equivalent

Originally Posted by Krainz

I doubt any of the "deeply offended Night Elf fans from the community" would upvote that. I doubt Kyalin and Icefrost would upvote those submissions. And they wouldn't upvote it because they don't buy the idea. You can take that as a starting point to eventually reach the conclusion that it's a genuine positive response, and massive at that.

Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl

I think you're stretching how "massive" the response is in regard to the whole player base, moreover someone doesn't have to be a super diehard to disagree with the decision to burn teldrassil, folks closer to the middle like me might update a funny meme but not think the actual burning is a good idea, he'll some of the people updating might not even be subscribed for all we know

You've decided on your conclusion and can no longer imagine the evidence isn't obvious despite it being full of holes

Originally Posted by Mending

🚬✌🏻👄 @ Krainz’s troll post working and the faction war bringing us to this point.

Originally Posted by Fojar

Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about

Originally Posted by Leviathon

SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.

Originally Posted by kobebyarlant

All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.

Originally Posted by Krainz

Seven. Thousand. People.

You seem to be underestimating the impact of that.

Originally Posted by Krainz

Seven. Thousand. People.

You seem to be underestimating the impact of that.

Originally Posted by Ruinshin

To be fair, its reddit.

A picture of a cat shitting can get 7k

Originally Posted by ARM3481

One of the problems night elves' development has is that over the years, WoW has gradually frittered away the detriments of arcane magic, increasingly associating the problems of its addiction and propensity for attracting demons to other, circumstantial causes.

Consequently, with arcane magic losing so much of its inherent associated risks, the Darnassian night elves become the elves who abandoned the strength and conveniences of civilization out of fear of abusing a source of power that has fewer and fewer real drawbacks with every expansion, making them out to be little more than backward savages with inferior magic. Their violence in WC3 used to be prominent for good reason; they'd replaced the vast yet highly self-destructive power they once had in the arcane with the balanced, rejuvenating might and savagery of Nature, be it in their individual viciousness or the magics of their druids.

Unfortunately, one of the exacerbating factors of the shift away from this is the way so many of arcane magic's inherent risks - the physiological addiction, the aggressively mutative symptoms of overindulgence and withdrawal, the attraction of demons from the Nether, etc. - became very specifically attached to elves and then subsequently got "solved." First we got to see the night elves who shunned the arcane join forces with a bunch of Alliance races who tossed it around willy-nilly with no ill effects to themselves (and no constant demonic incursions either, despite the absence of an Order of Tirisfal to clean up such things and keep them hush-hush), making them just the backward primitives of their own faction who stubbornly wouldn't touch arcane magic. Then we got to see the blood elves in TBC, and now the Nightborne in Legion reclaim their arcane legacies with the detrimental strings no longer attached, making the night elves the backward primitives of their own species who stubbornly won't touch arcane magic.

Now we live in an Azeroth where basically as long as you're not already a power-hungry maniac or a recklessly irresponsible person to begin with, the only real danger to using arcane magic turns out to just be not balancing it out with another kind of magic. And it can even be Holy/Light or Nature magic, of all things, both magics of the night elves post-Sundering. In the process of that development unfolding, they've systematically retconned the night elves from a society that became mighty by a different path after learning from the errors and terrible risks of delving into the arcane, into them turning away from the better, more powerful path to embrace a lesser one because they were too stupid to figure out how to make the arcane safe for use. Meanwhile, every other offshoot of their race figures it out in the span of a single expansion and holds onto their newly perfected arcane powers without the nasty drawbacks that originally led the night elves to abandon it.

By in effect liberating the arcane of its built-in hazards, WoW has increasingly changed the portrayal of everything that made the night elves strong during WC3 into nothing more than symptoms of weaknesses. They straight-up got rid of any good reason for them to abandon the arcane besides irrational distrust of it, so now they just come across as pointlessly stubborn at best, and monumentally stupid at worst.

Originally Posted by Noitora

There is a special place in Hell for emoji users.

Originally Posted by Cacofonix

In regards to WoW making Arcane less dangerous, couldn't you call Malygos being a boss the first big sign of this? I mean, he flies in saying that magic needs more regulation and instead of being aided he's instead "going too far" and has to be killed.

Originally Posted by Ethenil

He went to far because he wanted to kill all mages and redirect all leylines to the Nexus. Knowing what we do about the World Soul, this would probably kill or damage Azeroth.

Originally Posted by ARM3481

And because the only mages he seemed to be killing were the ones who actually enforce rules and regulations about using magic.

The Kirin Tor was the only group even trying to do the job he blew off for 10,000 years while crazy, and he repaid them for at least trying to cover his ass by attempting wipe them out and offering more power to any of their number that was willing to betray the rest.

Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl

I hate that at first they were very adamant he wasn't corrupted, but then later said he was.

Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl

I hate that at first they were very adamant he wasn't corrupted, but then later said he was.

Originally Posted by Asterisk

What Malygos was doing was causing a lot of geological trouble. Borean Tundra has some quests about it.

When did they say he was? I thought the Nexus War was because he regained his sanity.

Originally Posted by Omacron

He "regained" his sanity by sucking on Nether Drake juices. Now that the twisting nether is unambiguously chock-full of fel magic I think that means he was sucking on a demonic teat and thus became fel-corrupted.

Originally Posted by Taintedmage

Nah? Nether Dragon eggs were made when the portals went boom due to Nerzhul. They might not be fel infested since Nerzhul was a shaman.

Originally Posted by ARM3481

There wasn't anything shamanic about Ner'zhul's portal magic; he was using arcane and fel implements in a ritual drawn from the arcane and fel knowledge in Medivh's book of spells. He arguably wasn't even a shaman any more, since the orcs of Draenor were still severed from the elements by Gul'dan's use of the Cipher of Damnation.

When he compelled the elements to obey him in BtDP, it was portrayed as something forced and unnatural, so even then he was probably using either arcane power straight from the Book of Medivh or tapping into some form of Void- or Decay-based Dark Shamanism to enslave the spirits.

Originally Posted by Aquamonkey

Ner'zhul was tapping into the natural power of Draenor to make all those portals. The arcane magic came from the ley lines. It's even noted that Ner'zhul's shaman training made him more familiar with it than Khadgar.

Ner’zhul was a shaman, not a mage. His magics came from the earth and the sky and the water, from the world itself. And that was what this place was, a focal point for the world’s power. For Ner’zhul it would have been like tapping full force into something he had already broached repeatedly, but on a lesser scale—he would know how to handle it. For Khadgar, however, it was a completely new experience. And a dangerous one.
--Beyond the Dark Portal

Originally Posted by Krainz

I doubt any of the "deeply offended Night Elf fans from the community" would upvote that. I doubt Kyalin and Icefrost would upvote those submissions. And they wouldn't upvote it because they don't buy the idea.