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  #6901  
Old 09-27-2018, 09:16 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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I think it was a mistake to retcon away the Worgen's shadow aspects. If Blizzard wanted a shadow race, it should have been Worgen.

I'd have been fine with High Elves over Void Elves if Blizzard had simply kept that concept about Worgen consistent. Personally I do actually agree Blizzard's statements about High Elves are textbook hypocrisy, but it is what it is at this point.
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  #6902  
Old 09-27-2018, 11:38 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I wouldn't take high elves looking like high elves when they were still high elves as a sign that blood elves will be allowed to look like high elves. After so many high elves in one sentence, you surely must be tired of them by now, but allow me to continue.

There have been absolutely no signs that the remaining high elves wish to leave the Alliance. They are cozying up with the other Quel'dorei faction on the Alliance, and given who their leaders are, that should come as no surprise. In fact, it is the blood elves who should be worried about more of their numbers defecting to the other faction; we have already seen signs of this in the Telogrus Rift.

And finally... Despite the somewhat thoughtless words Ion (despite being a former lawyer), I don't think that Blizzard is callous and spiteful enough to actually do this.
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  #6903  
Old 09-28-2018, 12:45 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
I think it was a mistake to retcon away the Worgen's shadow aspects. If Blizzard wanted a shadow race, it should have been Worgen.
Are Wogen really shadowy? I saw them more as a 'dark side of Nature' theme.
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  #6904  
Old 09-28-2018, 01:19 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
Are Wogen really shadowy? I saw them more as a 'dark side of Nature' theme.
Vanilla-era worgen were more oriented around being sinister and shadowy in aspect, with spellcasters casting shadow magic and summoning wraiths. It was, at the time, more thematically tied to their being part of the general "darkness" that was permeating Duskwood and the environs around Shadowfang Keep.

It's only really remained among modern WoW's worgen with the Nightbane pack in Duskwood, as there are still Nightbane Shadow Weavers who cast a shadow-based projectile similar to their pre-Cataclysm shadowbolts and still summon wraiths as minions.

Last edited by ARM3481; 09-28-2018 at 01:21 AM..
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  #6905  
Old 09-28-2018, 03:10 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
I saw them more as a 'dark side of Nature' theme.
They should be that as well.

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Vanilla-era worgen were more oriented around being sinister and shadowy in aspect, with spellcasters casting shadow magic and summoning wraiths. It was, at the time, more thematically tied to their being part of the general "darkness" that was permeating Duskwood and the environs around Shadowfang Keep.

It's only really remained among modern WoW's worgen with the Nightbane pack in Duskwood, as there are still Nightbane Shadow Weavers who cast a shadow-based projectile similar to their pre-Cataclysm shadowbolts and still summon wraiths as minions.
Even outside of Duskwood or Shadowfang that was still an aspect of them, as evidenced by them having shadow-users in Ashenvale too.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Terrowulf_Shadow_Weaver

I don't think any of this has ever been explained as to whether it was tied to the darkness of Duskwood and Shadowfang or not, but they were like that in Ashenvale too. Personally I think the best way to reconcile this again is to expand on Worgen origins being tied to Elune's Night Warrior aspect, which seems like it may have a connection to shadow on some level, when she gave power to the scythe. Maybe it could explain why they become more shadowy when they become more feral or why the the more self-controlled ones have natural shadow resistance.

EDIT: On another note I'm starting to regret my Dreadwake decision because I've just lost all motivation to log on. Still looks nice and fitting on my DK, and maybe I'll ride it on a Kul Tiran.

Last edited by Lord Grimtale; 09-28-2018 at 03:22 AM..
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  #6906  
Old 09-28-2018, 10:00 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Vanilla-era worgen were more oriented around being sinister and shadowy in aspect, with spellcasters casting shadow magic and summoning wraiths. It was, at the time, more thematically tied to their being part of the general "darkness" that was permeating Duskwood and the environs around Shadowfang Keep.

It's only really remained among modern WoW's worgen with the Nightbane pack in Duskwood, as there are still Nightbane Shadow Weavers who cast a shadow-based projectile similar to their pre-Cataclysm shadowbolts and still summon wraiths as minions.
I've long thought that the worgen should've been the more creepy shadow themed the were originally. They could have had the worgen invade Gilneas, slaughtering the population, who due to the wall couldn't escape(for an ironic twist to keeping out people fleeing the scourge). Greymane and his family are all killed, and the worgen establish their own state. Varian, hearing this, finds it just punishment for abandoning the alliance. Thinking they could be useful allies against the horde, he sends a delegation to them. With Sylvanas then invading Gilneas, they agree. They could have had a faith based on shadow, with their warriors being savage, and their priest experimenting on undead(mostly for curiosity, but it would also have been another ironic twist with the forsaken's experimenting on humans).
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  #6907  
Old 09-28-2018, 10:51 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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So are there any new factions to grind rep for in 8.1?
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  #6908  
Old 09-28-2018, 10:59 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
So are there any new factions to grind rep for in 8.1?
None so far, but paragon reps for the 8.0 factions are coming. (I really hope they change how the rewards work, especially if this how they plan to fix the Horde-Alliance mount issue.)
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  #6909  
Old 09-28-2018, 11:47 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
I've long thought that the worgen should've been the more creepy shadow themed the were originally. They could have had the worgen invade Gilneas, slaughtering the population, who due to the wall couldn't escape(for an ironic twist to keeping out people fleeing the scourge). Greymane and his family are all killed, and the worgen establish their own state. Varian, hearing this, finds it just punishment for abandoning the alliance. Thinking they could be useful allies against the horde, he sends a delegation to them. With Sylvanas then invading Gilneas, they agree. They could have had a faith based on shadow, with their warriors being savage, and their priest experimenting on undead(mostly for curiosity, but it would also have been another ironic twist with the forsaken's experimenting on humans).
Why would the Alliance trust a bunch of dark-magic-based savages who just commited merciless genocide on a whole human kingdom?
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  #6910  
Old 09-28-2018, 02:36 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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The broadcast text for the Zuldazar raid present on PTR makes it rather clear that despite the fears (and in more severe cases rivers of tears) that the strike at Zuldazar would be a failure for the Alliance, it is indeed a victory, they complete their objectives, but they are hammered during the retreat, causing more losses than anticipated. Though Jaina clearly survives.

Also, one of the lines makes it pretty clear that a following patch, probably 8.2, will have to do with Calia.
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  #6911  
Old 09-28-2018, 02:50 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
The broadcast text for the Zuldazar raid present on PTR makes it rather clear that despite the fears (and in more severe cases rivers of tears) that the strike at Zuldazar would be a failure for the Alliance, it is indeed a victory, they complete their objectives, but they are hammered during the retreat, causing more losses than anticipated. Though Jaina clearly survives.

Also, one of the lines makes it pretty clear that a following patch, probably 8.2, will have to do with Calia.
My sense that 8.2 will be a return to Tirisfal like the Broken Shore grows stronger.

Also, Sira is indeed a night elf Forsaken. She willingly serves the Horde because she feels Maiev failed the Wardens by being too obsessed with Illidan and just up and left her in charge during Legion.

She also rants about how "death is coming for us all" and explains why Forsaken, at least in her case, don't mind that Sylvanas was the one who killed them in the first place. She likes being undead and sees Sylvanas as having "merely released me from a fate of decrepit ineptitude."

Update: Saurfang's scenario is datamined. It is a literally beat for beat retread of Dagger in the Dark. (EDIT: Accidentally missed a line).

Full version, with spoilers: Sylvanas informs the player character that Saurfang has escaped from Stormwind. She fears for his life and says that "while some questioned his loyalty" Saurfang is part of the Horde, and the Horde sticks up for and protects its own.

You head out with some dark rangers and Zekhan to rescue Saurfang, eventually tracking him to "the swamp" (I think the Swamp of Sorrows). Once you've found him you bring him back to the Dark Rangers who reveal it was a trick. They say Saurfang is guilty of high treason and Sylvanas has sentenced him to death. Saurfang, the player, and Zekhan kill all the Dark Rangers.

Saurfang tells you and Zekhan to return to Orgrimmar. The player will tell Sylvanas that Saurfang killed everyone but them and they just barely managed to escape him. However, it seems clear Sylvanas doesn't believe the player. Zekhan will covertly spread the word among the Horde's citizens and recruit an army to overthrow Sylvanas. Zekhan wants to stay with Saurfang but Saurfang says that "this path I must travel alone" but adds that he'll see you again soon.

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 09-28-2018 at 03:20 PM..
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  #6912  
Old 09-28-2018, 03:00 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I'm not so sure about willingly, considering it's the Forsaken. But some of those lines certainly imply that (a faction) of the Wardens has turned traitors withut necessitating death as a facilitating medium.
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  #6913  
Old 09-28-2018, 03:07 PM
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Broadcast Text for Siege of Zuldazar Story (Spoilers) : https://www.wowhead.com/news=287525/...story-spoilers

They literally put Mekatorque on ice.
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  #6914  
Old 09-28-2018, 03:12 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt View Post
Broadcast Text for Siege of Zuldazar Story (Spoilers) : https://www.wowhead.com/news=287525/...story-spoilers

They literally put Mekatorque on ice.
I'm betting he's going to get robocop'd back to life as a junker gnome or whatever the final name for them will be.
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  #6915  
Old 09-28-2018, 03:39 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I'm hugely disappointed by those bits of Saurfang.

Now Sylvanas is effectively similar to Garrosh. Yay another dead warchief...
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  #6916  
Old 09-28-2018, 05:16 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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The Night Warrior scenario is rather interesting, its showing some butting heads in the Alliance.

The ritual itself seems pretty neat too. Tyrande is pissed at Elune too.

There's also a dialogue between Tandred and Jaina that I think lends credence to that Tide Priestess Katherine being their mother:

I'd have done my duty, but I know where I'm best suited, and that's on the sea. Come to think of it, mother could get back out there too...
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  #6917  
Old 09-28-2018, 06:28 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
I'm hugely disappointed by those bits of Saurfang.

Now Sylvanas is effectively similar to Garrosh. Yay another dead warchief...
Me too.

It's too much of a rethread for my liking.
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  #6918  
Old 09-28-2018, 06:32 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
I'm hugely disappointed by those bits of Saurfang.

Now Sylvanas is effectively similar to Garrosh. Yay another dead warchief...
I would agree and be pleased with it (I’m all for War Cheif Saurfang) but I’m also seeing her stand with the Zandalari after SoZ, and I like the way she handles that. I even like how she dedicates raising Derek to avenging Rastakan. She’s a lot better at handling her allies than Garrosh ever was.
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  #6919  
Old 09-28-2018, 06:36 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Why would the Alliance trust a bunch of dark-magic-based savages who just commited merciless genocide on a whole human kingdom?
Yeah, that isn't what I'd do either. Maybe sometime I'll extrapolate on my ideas, maybe in the worldbuilding discord or something. I don't know where else it fits.

The night elves saved my people from our curse--gave us refuge in Darnassus.
Countless gilneans died when it fell, boy. I nearly lost Mia.
Some goblin ingenuity, and a lot of explosives, we could take this ship down!
I won't let them endure the same fate we have--the worgen will fight by their side.


^ In other good news, it looks like the Worgen will be fighting alongside the Night Elves against the Forsaken.
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  #6920  
Old 09-28-2018, 08:46 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
I would agree and be pleased with it (I’m all for War Cheif Saurfang) but I’m also seeing her stand with the Zandalari after SoZ, and I like the way she handles that. I even like how she dedicates raising Derek to avenging Rastakan. She’s a lot better at handling her allies than Garrosh ever was.
I'm hoping the Saurfang scenario is rewritten. Really hope it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Yeah, that isn't what I'd do either. Maybe sometime I'll extrapolate on my ideas, maybe in the worldbuilding discord or something. I don't know where else it fits.

The night elves saved my people from our curse--gave us refuge in Darnassus.
Countless gilneans died when it fell, boy. I nearly lost Mia.
Some goblin ingenuity, and a lot of explosives, we could take this ship down!
I won't let them endure the same fate we have--the worgen will fight by their side.


^ In other good news, it looks like the Worgen will be fighting alongside the Night Elves against the Forsaken.
I love the exchanges between Tyrande and Anduin and Anduin and Genn. Now THAT'S the Alliance I want to see. Some conflict, but united.
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  #6921  
Old 09-28-2018, 10:24 PM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is online now

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So is Gelbin being set up to become a mechagnome or what?

EDIT: Also, Sylvanas is apparently forced to sacrifice another valkyr for Nathanos.
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  #6922  
Old 09-28-2018, 10:43 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
So is Gelbin being set up to become a mechagnome or what?

EDIT: Also, Sylvanas is apparently forced to sacrifice another valkyr for Nathanos.
Seems pretty likely. As I mentioned in the Mechagnomes thread, they even have Gallywix say this about Gelbin during the boss fight (bold emphasis mine):

Quote:
Seriously, this guy is really obsessed with machines. Makes me think he wants to be part robot or somethin'!
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  #6923  
Old 09-28-2018, 11:33 PM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
EDIT: Also, Sylvanas is apparently forced to sacrifice another valkyr for Nathanos.
On the one hand i don't like Nathanos so him dieing would have been nice.
On the other hand i do ship it so that fills me with all kinds of conflicting emotions. I wonder if they're trying to use Nathanos for any sort of redemption for her. Using her last shred of positive emotions for a big revelation ("oh, no, what have i done") on her end or something.

....
how many Val'kyr DOES she even have? Feels like every time one appears in a quest it's a different one.
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  #6924  
Old 09-28-2018, 11:41 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Originally Posted by Commander Rotal View Post
how many Val'kyr DOES she even have? Feels like every time one appears in a quest it's a different one.
She lost one when she made the pact, three in Silverpine. One was killed in Andorhal by the Alliance. One pretty much sacrificed itself to give Nathanos his new body (from what I remember its still alive but essentially a shell of its former self, so safe to say it is useless now). That left her with three.

Now two, I suppose.
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  #6925  
Old 09-29-2018, 12:59 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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https://de.wowhead.com/news=287531/p...atath-spoilers

Spoilers for Xal'atath.

She apparently gets freed from her prison and yeah, will soooo become a Raid Boss in the near future.

Nazjatar gets also forshadowed.


@Siege of Zuldazar:

No surprise for me, that Rastakhan got killed of for good. Hail Queen Talanji.

Also, I have kind the feeling, that raising Derek will backfire heavily on both sides. (Specially since Sylvanas has to heavily mindcontrol him to make him useable for her.)


And this I imo. don't have to Spoiler Tag.

From what got dataminded, the Blood Elf Heritage Armour Scenario looks really nice.

Not only it includes a reminisence to the Scourge campain it finally shows the Destruction of the Sunwell like it was shown in the "Blood of the Highborne" short story. (Also mentioning the Amani attack during it.)

Last edited by Vineyard; 09-29-2018 at 01:09 AM..
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