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Old 05-14-2014, 01:32 AM
Eterna Eterna is offline

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Default If you really think about it, Night Elves aging and dying rapidly is a blessing.

As it currently stands, almost no Night Elven character of importance has redeemable qualities. They have all either been made to be incompetent, narcissistic, or bat shit insane.

I can personally say that aside from Shandris I no longer enjoy any of their characters. They have all been turned into horrific abominations with no chance of redemption. Therefore, I move that them aging quicker and dying is actually a blessing in disguise. It gives Blizzard a chance to start with a clean slate and hopefully make more relatable and compelling characters.

Can anyone really say at this point that they would honestly care if all of the major Night Elven characters were killed off and replaced?
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:43 AM
Torch Torch is offline

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Night elf fans should be glad that their heroes are dying, because Blizzard are fucking them over in characterisation, and if they're Dead we don't have to suffer seeing them ruined...

There's something dodgy about this argument, and I can't quite put my finger on it... It's not just the lack of night elf characters being built up is it?
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:08 AM
Eterna Eterna is offline

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Originally Posted by Torch View Post
Night elf fans should be glad that their heroes are dying, because Blizzard are fucking them over in characterisation, and if they're Dead we don't have to suffer seeing them ruined...

There's something dodgy about this argument, and I can't quite put my finger on it... It's not just the lack of night elf characters being built up is it?
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:32 AM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

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They have all been turned into horrific abominations with no chance of redemption.
False assumption that you tried to gloss over to get to the point like a bad politician. And I'm not just talking here. I've personally thought of ways to fix them that don't include killing them or trampling on another playable race to show off that they can do stuff.

Whether anyone of significance cares or agrees is another story of course, but it's also an invalid argument for claiming that nothing can be done to help the patient here.

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Can anyone really say at this point that they would honestly care if all of the major Night Elven characters were killed off and replaced?
Yes.

Clean-slating isn't fixing anything. The race is barely identifiable as what some people signed up to play anymore and losing everything that remains, a big part of which are the characters, is just going to break things with no chance of redemption, those words sound familiar?

Meaning whatever you put in afterwards is irrelevant. Especially if you're going to try and appeal to the same audience that once liked them. Because that's precisely the audience you officially lost with your brilliant move. Thinking you can get away with it just makes you look like someone who thinks exactly like current blizzard creative directors.

Last edited by Icefrost; 05-14-2014 at 06:14 AM..
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:46 AM
Avon Avon is offline

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Night Elves are dying rapidly? Since when?
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:54 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Night Elves are dying rapidly? Since when?
Gnomeregan Gnews Gnetwork doesn't cover the story anymore.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:01 AM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

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Night Elves are dying rapidly? Since when?
And that, too.

Misinformed, trollish topic about closed now?
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:07 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Mmm, i disagree :p

still want mohawks for the females tho #savage
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:58 AM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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Night Elves as a race are perfectly fine. Respectable, even, seeing as from all we've been told they held up against the entire Kalimdor Horde without help from the Eastern Kingdoms or the Draenei.

The best part of Wolfheart the novel was all the 'normal' Night Elves doing outright badass things like fighting off 5+ Kor'kron.

Plus, this music:

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Old 05-14-2014, 08:13 AM
Arterius Arterius is offline

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Night Elves are dying rapidly? Since when?
I think the main cause of this theory is Jarod Shadowsong's wife dying from age-related illnesses in Wolfheart, even though by that point in the story it'd been less than 10 years since they lost their immortality (I haven't read Wolfheart, so this is going off of wowpedia).

I also remember hearing something about Tyrande's eyesight starting to go bad as a result of aging in one of the novels. I can't confirm whether that one is actually true, though. If it is, it's probably in Wolfheart, too.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:56 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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No, make Wolfheart non-canon instead.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:20 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Arterius View Post
I think the main cause of this theory is Jarod Shadowsong's wife dying from age-related illnesses in Wolfheart, even though by that point in the story it'd been less than 10 years since they lost their immortality (I haven't read Wolfheart, so this is going off of wowpedia).

I also remember hearing something about Tyrande's eyesight starting to go bad as a result of aging in one of the novels. I can't confirm whether that one is actually true, though. If it is, it's probably in Wolfheart, too.

Neilson said it wasnt super aging but time was catching up to some of them.. whatever that means.

Anyway, Malfurion and Tyrande dont work because Malfurion is only half a character. As is Illidan. The two need eaxhother to work.

Tyrande is easy enough tofix since her decline began in Stormrage and she waded through the Emerald Nightmare.

Have her make a few conflictin .appearance, a line about foggy minds, a shiny ppurification ritual, and bam.

Shitty fix? Well, blizzard, so shitty comic book writing
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:23 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Elves are like Bilbos. Butter scraped over too much bread.
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:05 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Elves are like Bilbos. Butter scraped over too much bread.
Ah?
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:53 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Ah?
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:02 PM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

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Originally Posted by Thunderbraid View Post
The best part of Wolfheart the novel was all the 'normal' Night Elves doing outright badass things like fighting off 5+ Kor'kron.
Which might've actually been noticed if it wasn't in the same book that features night elves losing so dramatically that they are forced to give up some very important beliefs that used to make them what they are, as well as losing an arguably unacceptably large amount of independence via a plot-device vision that tells them to follow someone else.

I for one am glad that people don't let writers get away with a moment of coolness being traded for negative things that have far bigger repercussions in the long run.

I also fail to see where all this "held off by themselves" talk is coming from, since it seems to me like the only place of theirs that wasn't all but wiped out before committing to the above resignations was their randomly-important doesn't-really-count-as-home tree-island. Care to point me to it?

I mean, certainly there's a fair bit of room to be giving them the benefit of the doubt on things not yet precisely explained beyond a demand at the end of SoO for the horde to leave Ashenvale alone (as IIRC Wolfheart happened before most all of the fighting in-game, something that seems to get overlooked by people, unless that statement was reversed at some point), but it just so happens that there are ample reasons for people to not feel inclined to do that.
Letting one's imagination fill in the blanks is fine for writing in general, but it only works toward the same general direction and tone that's being put out by the writer.

Last edited by Icefrost; 05-14-2014 at 02:20 PM..
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:10 PM
Arterius Arterius is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
Neilson said it wasnt super aging but time was catching up to some of them.. whatever that means.
Whatever it is, it probably contradicts itself in several places. I guess it depends on how Night Elf immortality worked. It obviously wasn't like Picture of Dorian Grey, because otherwise when Nordrassil blew up the Night Elves would have disintegrated like the guy who drank from a false grail in The Last Crusade. But the whole idea of time "catching up" implies that at least some of them started physically aging at an accelerated rate after losing their immortality.
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:15 PM
Eterna Eterna is offline

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Originally Posted by Icefrost View Post
And that, too.

Misinformed, trollish topic about closed now?
I am not trolling. I just can't see any positivity or good things in recent Night Elven character development. I just look at it and want it all scrapped.

Actually you know what? Tyrande is okay. She seemed pretty competent and awesome in War Crimes. It really is just Malfurion. He should get old and die quickly but before he dies he realizes that he's a colossal douche and returns the Night Elves immortality.

Can we make this a Malfurion hate thread now?

Last edited by Eterna; 05-14-2014 at 03:19 PM..
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  #19  
Old 05-14-2014, 08:19 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Magical.

Tbh i never understood people making a big deal about the nelves not rolfstomping tge Horde in their land. They are going 3 vs 1 (with people who dont play fair on top of that)
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:14 AM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

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Originally Posted by Eterna View Post
I am not trolling. I just can't see any positivity or good things in recent Night Elven character development. I just look at it and want it all scrapped.
It's fine to not like what you see. But I find it trollish and provocative to ask for just scrapping it without stopping to consider how doing that still isn't going to help anyone.

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Can we make this a Malfurion hate thread now?
You'll have to do that without my vote then.

Malfurion is an excellent sample case of just needing more clarification to show what he's been up to, since from what I've seen, most of the hate seems to come from not things that were actually said and written, but rather, the things that people assumed and filled in the blanks with. A lot of that getting pulled straight out of game mechanics and other things that are just silly to make actual story out of.

The only thing that went wrong was that certain fanboy writers at the blizzard offices are so hell-bent on sharing the guy between both factions that they don't even want to let the horde target him while raiding Darnassus - the real reason why he's neutral in that fight, as speculated by me. But of course people have this backwards too and assume there's some big story reason for it.

And even if one wants to go the route of thinking that he really isn't helping his people with wars and such due to neutrality, there's still an insane amount of untapped storytelling potential in making that an actual dilemma for him, instead of just asking to scrap him because they didn't tell that story already. Though I'm still of the opinion that he's not nearly as uncooperative as people like to think. More 'hands full with things we have not been told about in detail' and less 'sitting on his hands because nonsensical philosophy'.

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Tbh i never understood people making a big deal about the nelves not rolfstomping tge Horde in their land. They are going 3 vs 1 (with people who dont play fair on top of that)
I find there's a lot of things between that and getting themselves as thoroughly whooped as it seems. No one asked to go right to the other extreme. Just a reason to see it halfway positively for.
Also not sure what playing fair matters, whatever you even mean by that, when you're talking about a force whose first option strategy is assassination, ambush, sabotage and generally, you know, not playing fair themselves to begin with.

Last edited by Icefrost; 05-15-2014 at 03:30 AM..
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  #21  
Old 05-15-2014, 08:42 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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I find there's a lot of things between that and getting themselves as thoroughly whooped as it seems. No one asked to go right to the other extreme. Just a reason to see it halfway positively for.
Also not sure what playing fair matters, whatever you even mean by that, when you're talking about a force whose first option strategy is assassination, ambush, sabotage and generally, you know, not playing fair themselves to begin with.
They did, y'know using the forest, the one the Horde is choping down.

Playing fair is using themselves and their resources instead of getting superweapons like Garrosh
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Old 05-15-2014, 09:17 AM
Kynrind Kynrind is offline

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The Horde invasion of Ashenvale should paid a very heavy price in dead Horde soldiers to get as far as it did. It's the Night elves home turf and they know it better than anyone else. That the Horde steamrolled the Night elves as they did is an abomination of terrible writing. It takes time to chop down trees, especially trees as large as the ones in Ashenvale, that would be the perfect time to feather the loggers with arrows, and the soldiers guarding them. Not to mention the trees themselves would be blockades to cut off sections of the Horde forces when they hit the ground.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:17 PM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

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Originally Posted by Kynrind View Post
The Horde invasion of Ashenvale should paid a very heavy price in dead Horde soldiers to get as far as it did. It's the Night elves home turf and they know it better than anyone else. That the Horde steamrolled the Night elves as they did is an abomination of terrible writing. It takes time to chop down trees, especially trees as large as the ones in Ashenvale, that would be the perfect time to feather the loggers with arrows, and the soldiers guarding them. Not to mention the trees themselves would be blockades to cut off sections of the Horde forces when they hit the ground.
And the mind-boggling massive bombing open of the stonetalon pass that somehow constitutes a sneak attack against the stealth-mistresses and masters of Azeroth.

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Playing fair is using themselves and their resources instead of getting superweapons like Garrosh
I take it the above is what you meant by not playing fair then? Fair enough, you're correct in that case. Guess I didn't catch it since bad writing does not make for an acceptable explanation for anything in my book.
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:08 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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They are going to die as fast as plot requires.

So, the ones blessed by Elune/Cenarius, like our favorite duo, will probably never die.

Reminds me, how long to people blessed by supernatural forces live? Tirion is probably the oldest Paladin alive at the moment (Human, at least) and he's jumping over Lich Kings well into his 60s. I mean, no Paladin has made it to die of old age, but it makes me wonder in general.
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So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:27 PM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Define "rapidly". Cause if by "aging rapidly" you mean having an average lifespan similar to that of a human, then chances are we won't be seeing any of them dying of old age in WoW any time soon. Therefore, the answer to you question is "No. Night elves losing their immortality was NOT a blessing".
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