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  #126  
Old 05-21-2017, 03:50 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Agreed, though I'm still annoyed at the way they worked the time travel mechanics there.
Yeah, it seemed kinda arbitrary that Ashi not only vanished when Future-Jack didn't (since they're both really products of the same future) but also that there was an arbitrary "timer" to let her remain in existence for several days, weeks or months before the paradox-erasure kicked in. The ending feels less bittersweet and more pointlessly negative as a result.

Plus it kinda ignores that since killing Future-Aku was supposedly nigh impossible because his essence is all over the place and even a small part of him enduring would be enough to "regrow" himself, and Ashi still had her "shadow-skin" and Aku's powers as they fled the collapsing tower, she was still wearing (and arguably outright was )part of Future-Aku from which he could be reborn.

Also it remains somewhat unclear why Jack slaying Aku with the sword is suddenly permanent, when his father doing so the first time around merely locked Aku's power away.

Honestly given how actual utilization of time travel was largely a one-off device to get him into the future during the first episode of the series, then a generalized "got to get back" out-of-reach goal throughout, I was really hoping the finale could keep things simple enough at the end to not stumble into too many of the things I hate about time travel...but frankly the more I think about it the more I feel like it managed to make all of the time travel mistakes in rapid succession right at the very end.

Since they're both products of the "Future that is Aku," either Future-Jack and Ashi should have continued to exist, or neither of them should have. And either outcome shouldn't have kicked in some arbitrary amount of time after killing Aku had closed off that future from happening.

Moreover, shouldn't the Emperor and Empress look a lot older at the wedding? They certainly were when Jack freed them from the slave pits en route to challenge Aku; the Emperor in particular was downright withered and grey.

Last edited by ARM3481; 05-21-2017 at 03:55 AM..
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  #127  
Old 05-21-2017, 07:07 AM
Gromak Gromak is offline

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I'm content. Ending was nice enough but my God was the episode rushed.
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  #128  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:01 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Yesssss ashi died
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  #129  
Old 05-21-2017, 10:38 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Yeah, it seemed kinda arbitrary that Ashi not only vanished when Future-Jack didn't (since they're both really products of the same future) but also that there was an arbitrary "timer" to let her remain in existence for several days, weeks or months before the paradox-erasure kicked in. The ending feels less bittersweet and more pointlessly negative as a result.

Plus it kinda ignores that since killing Future-Aku was supposedly nigh impossible because his essence is all over the place and even a small part of him enduring would be enough to "regrow" himself, and Ashi still had her "shadow-skin" and Aku's powers as they fled the collapsing tower, she was still wearing (and arguably outright was )part of Future-Aku from which he could be reborn.

Also it remains somewhat unclear why Jack slaying Aku with the sword is suddenly permanent, when his father doing so the first time around merely locked Aku's power away.

Honestly given how actual utilization of time travel was largely a one-off device to get him into the future during the first episode of the series, then a generalized "got to get back" out-of-reach goal throughout, I was really hoping the finale could keep things simple enough at the end to not stumble into too many of the things I hate about time travel...but frankly the more I think about it the more I feel like it managed to make all of the time travel mistakes in rapid succession right at the very end.

Since they're both products of the "Future that is Aku," either Future-Jack and Ashi should have continued to exist, or neither of them should have. And either outcome shouldn't have kicked in some arbitrary amount of time after killing Aku had closed off that future from happening.

Moreover, shouldn't the Emperor and Empress look a lot older at the wedding? They certainly were when Jack freed them from the slave pits en route to challenge Aku; the Emperor in particular was downright withered and grey.
Exactly, they made some vague comments about it in the episode where Jack and his father talked about how he shouldn't put his faith in the sword, but in himself, and that's why Aku wasn't destroyed the first time.


I'm so annoyed though, they had so many Loooong drawn out moments earlier on that could've been trimmed down to fit more actual content in and it just... grah.
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  #130  
Old 05-21-2017, 12:07 PM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

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That was one hell of a rushed episode. Still, it was everything I wanted. Thank you based Genndy.

Despite their shitty lives I feel sad the Scotsman and all other characters have zero chance of being born in the future. Oh well, at least my theory of Professor Utonium being Jack's descendant still holds.
Or it could be that they exist but have happier lives instead. Sorta like the end of days of future past. One of the kids who gets murdered by the sentinels is seen alive and happy in the future that Logan makes.
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  #131  
Old 05-21-2017, 02:27 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Exactly, they made some vague comments about it in the episode where Jack and his father talked about how he shouldn't put his faith in the sword, but in himself, and that's why Aku wasn't destroyed the first time.
They also rather ignored Jack's father's warning that "evil always finds a way." Aku pretty much spent the final moments the battle faceplanting in the future and past and leaving himself no way whatsoever to escape complete destruction.

Hell, having Ashi survive as a potential means of his return would have at least satisfied the theme of the Emperor's warning. Instead, apparently evil doesn't find a way; it just drops the ball at the eleventh hour and implodes so completely that there's no way for it to bounce back.


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Or it could be that they exist but have happier lives instead. Sorta like the end of days of future past. One of the kids who gets murdered by the sentinels is seen alive and happy in the future that Logan makes.
The thing is, given the amount of time that passed and sheer scale of differences in an Aku-less future, most if not all of those people probably don't exist. Over thousands of years so much is different that it's hard to believe anything would be recognizable. Entire alien species will have never relocated to Aku's Earth. Entire new Earth-born species will have never arisen from the conditions on Aku's Earth. A shitton of extraplanetary criminals, monsters, tyrants and other horrors now remain at large throughout the stars because the absence of Aku's evil to attract them keeps them from congregating on Earth.

Unpleasant though it may be to consider, one could argue that as good as being Aku-free would be for Earth itself, getting rid of him might well be a very bad thing for everywhere else. Now there's no one planet acting like a lodestone to draw in the worst the galaxy has to offer and in so doing potentially improve things on all those other planets.

Hell, just the fact that Aku had forbidden the construction of spaceships on Earth and had swarms of robots in place to prevent escape suggested that he knew things were a whole lot better "out there" than they were on Earth and didn't want anyone leaving. Well, with no Aku all the nasty alien stuff he'd attracted to Earth is "out there" causing widespread havoc all over the cosmos instead of being isolated to one spot.

Last edited by ARM3481; 05-21-2017 at 02:32 PM..
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  #132  
Old 05-21-2017, 02:31 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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I think they could have easily drawn this into another season, and probably should have.

Time travel is, has been, and always will be The Worst. But it seemed to me like Ashi's death was a 'puff of logic' sort of moment, or 'don't think about time travel.' She only died once she noticed the ontological paradox of her existence.

By the by, is there any reason Aku won't just come back at the next solar eclipse, like he did the first time?
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  #133  
Old 05-21-2017, 02:51 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Aku was wiped out Perfect Cell style.
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  #134  
Old 05-21-2017, 02:57 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Aku was wiped out Perfect Cell style.
DBZ Abridged hasn't got that far. Explain?
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #135  
Old 05-21-2017, 03:06 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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DBZ Abridged hasn't got that far. Explain?
Gohan obliterated him entirely so he couldn't regenerate from his cells/living tissue.
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  #136  
Old 05-21-2017, 03:21 PM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

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They also rather ignored Jack's father's warning that "evil always finds a way." Aku pretty much spent the final moments the battle faceplanting in the future and past and leaving himself no way whatsoever to escape complete destruction.

Hell, having Ashi survive as a potential means of his return would have at least satisfied the theme of the Emperor's warning. Instead, apparently evil doesn't find a way; it just drops the ball at the eleventh hour and implodes so completely that there's no way for it to bounce back.




The thing is, given the amount of time that passed and sheer scale of differences in an Aku-less future, most if not all of those people probably don't exist. Over thousands of years so much is different that it's hard to believe anything would be recognizable. Entire alien species will have never relocated to Aku's Earth. Entire new Earth-born species will have never arisen from the conditions on Aku's Earth. A shitton of extraplanetary criminals, monsters, tyrants and other horrors now remain at large throughout the stars because the absence of Aku's evil to attract them keeps them from congregating on Earth.

Unpleasant though it may be to consider, one could argue that as good as being Aku-free would be for Earth itself, getting rid of him might well be a very bad thing for everywhere else. Now there's no one planet acting like a lodestone to draw in the worst the galaxy has to offer and in so doing potentially improve things on all those other planets.

Hell, just the fact that Aku had forbidden the construction of spaceships on Earth and had swarms of robots in place to prevent escape suggested that he knew things were a whole lot better "out there" than they were on Earth and didn't want anyone leaving. Well, with no Aku all the nasty alien stuff he'd attracted to Earth is "out there" causing widespread havoc all over the cosmos instead of being isolated to one spot.
Many of the bad guys were those fleeing their own worlds. Aku also conquered other worlds so in general is downfall is a net gain for everyone.
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  #137  
Old 05-21-2017, 03:28 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Tfw no more samurai jack or aku
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  #138  
Old 05-21-2017, 08:12 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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FOOLISH GURZOG!

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  #139  
Old 05-24-2017, 02:07 PM
Almed Almed is offline

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They also rather ignored Jack's father's warning that "evil always finds a way." Aku pretty much spent the final moments the battle faceplanting in the future and past and leaving himself no way whatsoever to escape complete destruction.

Hell, having Ashi survive as a potential means of his return would have at least satisfied the theme of the Emperor's warning. Instead, apparently evil doesn't find a way; it just drops the ball at the eleventh hour and implodes so completely that there's no way for it to bounce back.




The thing is, given the amount of time that passed and sheer scale of differences in an Aku-less future, most if not all of those people probably don't exist. Over thousands of years so much is different that it's hard to believe anything would be recognizable. Entire alien species will have never relocated to Aku's Earth. Entire new Earth-born species will have never arisen from the conditions on Aku's Earth. A shitton of extraplanetary criminals, monsters, tyrants and other horrors now remain at large throughout the stars because the absence of Aku's evil to attract them keeps them from congregating on Earth.

Unpleasant though it may be to consider, one could argue that as good as being Aku-free would be for Earth itself, getting rid of him might well be a very bad thing for everywhere else. Now there's no one planet acting like a lodestone to draw in the worst the galaxy has to offer and in so doing potentially improve things on all those other planets.

Hell, just the fact that Aku had forbidden the construction of spaceships on Earth and had swarms of robots in place to prevent escape suggested that he knew things were a whole lot better "out there" than they were on Earth and didn't want anyone leaving. Well, with no Aku all the nasty alien stuff he'd attracted to Earth is "out there" causing widespread havoc all over the cosmos instead of being isolated to one spot.
You forget that Aku himself surely ruled beyond Earth. If not officially, then by sheer fear. He's had who know how long to terrorize the galaxy. Him getting stopped before he starts prevents him from destabilizing so much of it and enabling the proper authorities or concerned citizens to take care of the dangerous ones.
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  #140  
Old 05-24-2017, 04:05 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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I'm pretty sure that in that episode with all the different bounty hunters, the lady bounty hunter says Aku has promised her planet its freedom if she kills Jack.

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Gohan obliterated him entirely so he couldn't regenerate from his cells/living tissue.
Yeah, I didn't see any of that with Jack. He just dug the sword into the ground. Isn't that what his dad did after beating Aku?
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  #141  
Old 05-25-2017, 07:21 PM
Arashi Arashi is offline

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I knew it was a thing but i never bothered watching it the moment i saw chicks.

From experience i know that forcing an awkward and unnecessary romance waters down anything of substance.
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