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View Poll Results: Which of these allied race combos would you prefer?
Vrykul (A)/MU Clans (H) 11 28.21%
Kul Tirans (A)/MU Clans (H) 16 41.03%
Kul Tirans (A)/AU Clans (H) 9 23.08%
Vrykul (A)/AU Clans (H) 3 7.69%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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  #726  
Old 11-04-2017, 08:09 PM
taelon taelon is offline

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Guys, remember this is a subraces discussion. So, if you really wanna talk about high elves, keep in mind that you should focus on the possibility of them as a subrace, not as a full-fledged race.



The very point os subraces is that they are not "unique races", but in some way related to existing races.

I don't think high elves will ever be added as a race on its own, unless they make a story that changes them physically and thematically to be very different from both blood and night elves.
I disagree with you here. For me subraces mainly means the amount of effort put into it or how much of a roll they play. More like minor races so to say.

Feels like people overthink high elves like having to completly redesign them. The point is that we don't redesign high elves.
The way high elves are often present is them being merged into human setlements so they always felt like a subrace for humans eventhough their not biologically.
I'd most likely implement high elves as a subrace of night elves in the creation screen but have their little hub situated in a human settlement (stormwind or Stormgarde).


The initial player desire for subraces was to get:
- Wildhammer and Dark Iron Dwarves
- Broken Draenei
- High Elves
- Nightbourne
- Undead (high) Elves
- Brown Orcs
- Straigh orcs
- Mokna'thal Orc/ogre hybrids
- Other troll tribes
- Other Tauren tribes

Looking at this list the options for horde are huge. That could be a reason to give nightbourne fully to alliance.

BTW, i'm not expecting Vrykul, Ogres or troll beserkers anytime soon unfortunatly. Blizzard mentioned that their too big.
Troll beserkers would probably take a lot of extra work on equipment visuals as well, but than i would love to see naga's
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  #727  
Old 11-04-2017, 10:20 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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So now we have the whole allied races thing and Blizzard saying they aren't 'sub races'. Any future allied race would still have to be something that for the most part shares a skeleton with a current race hence why they can do so many of them in 1 expansion as it's not as hard only having to make a few unique poses as animation skeletons are the most time consuming part of model design. With this a speculative race like Jinyu or Mogu can work but not something like a Hozen.

The easiest ones are races that pretty much already met those requirements above and even had 'naked' models already that Blizzard usually just dressed up with geosets.

Zandalari in the demo I wager used the customization geosets that were mostly already present on the old MoP model but obviously updated a bit. Many animations were likely just ported over as well.





Exceptions could possibly be race that actually had quite a bit of work already done with their skeletons. Ogres and Arrakoa for example have quite a bit of animation work done though neither has any facial rigging (not that a beak needs much rigging). It's possible, as Cosmic said on Discord, that the Tirasian human skeletons are prep work for either ogres or vrykul facial rigging. Or maybe it's not that hard to port over facial rigging from the base races and modify them given I'd imagine the Zandalari don't use the same exact facial rigging as night elves. I doubt we'd ever see Arrakoa given they still would require a fair amount of model editing but ogres seem like a good possibility.





Broken seem like a very possible future addition given the amount of facial rigging the model actually has that is pretty altered from the male draenei and facial pose rigging.



Last edited by Leviathon; 11-04-2017 at 10:31 PM..
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  #728  
Old 11-05-2017, 10:22 AM
Apep Apep is offline

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I really find it suspicious how much work has been put into these models. I'm not sure if it's using a modified Worgen skeleton or Mantid, but the model is well put together. The body type isn't too exotic, which means most armor pieces would fit reasonably well sans helmets, but that can be addressed in a similar manner to Worgen or Tauren. They even have facial rigging. The only real problem is the lack of a female/male distinction, unless Blizzard goes balls to the wall and presents them without sexual dimorphism, which would be appropriate since they're snakes.
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  #729  
Old 11-05-2017, 10:58 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Apep View Post
https://twitter.com/Tyrnn/status/926576416988192768
I really find it suspicious how much work has been put into these models. I'm not sure if it's using a modified Worgen skeleton or Mantid, but the model is well put together. The body type isn't too exotic, which means most armor pieces would fit reasonably well sans helmets, but that can be addressed in a similar manner to Worgen or Tauren. They even have facial rigging. The only real problem is the lack of a female/male distinction, unless Blizzard goes balls to the wall and presents them without sexual dimorphism, which would be appropriate since they're snakes.
They did that with the Ethereal already on Argus so that's possible. They'd still need some type of customization though to make them noticeable kinda like female charr in GW2.
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  #730  
Old 11-06-2017, 12:01 PM
Edoll Edoll is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apep View Post
https://twitter.com/Tyrnn/status/926576416988192768
I really find it suspicious how much work has been put into these models. I'm not sure if it's using a modified Worgen skeleton or Mantid, but the model is well put together. The body type isn't too exotic, which means most armor pieces would fit reasonably well sans helmets, but that can be addressed in a similar manner to Worgen or Tauren. They even have facial rigging. The only real problem is the lack of a female/male distinction, unless Blizzard goes balls to the wall and presents them without sexual dimorphism, which would be appropriate since they're snakes.
They look really cool and they'd definitely be a unique allied race. I just hope this isn't practice for a bipedal naga. I would rather have no naga than not-naga.
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  #731  
Old 11-06-2017, 02:36 PM
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I don't know. The release races are absolutely lackluster. You usually get the best guns for the first impression, so it's hard to imagine it will get considerably better in the future.

If they wanted to put in cool stuff, they would have bragged about it, instead of pretending tauren with different horns are a new "race". That's why I don't see the likes of broken and ogres happening, not before another expansion.
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  #732  
Old 11-06-2017, 05:49 PM
Apep Apep is offline

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I don't know. The release races are absolutely lackluster. You usually get the best guns for the first impression, so it's hard to imagine it will get considerably better in the future.

If they wanted to put in cool stuff, they would have bragged about it, instead of pretending tauren with different horns are a new "race". That's why I don't see the likes of broken and ogres happening, not before another expansion.
Conversely, they want to start with something that is familiar. These are all races we've seen before and don't require too much work to implement. Void elves are just reskinned Blood elves, Highmountain Tauren are, as you said, Tauren with different horns. Nightborne are funky Night elves, and the last two are essentially reskins as well. Zandalari might have more work under the hood, but not much.

Plus, there is that insistent terminology that these are allied "races" not "subraces." Seems indicative that Blizzard doesn't want to be tied down by existing playable races.
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  #733  
Old 11-06-2017, 06:00 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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My guesses for future allied races:

Vrykul: I'm really surprised this wasn't one of the announced ones. It would fit the theme of nearly all the allied races being recruited from Legion races, would make the Broken Isles less horde dominated, and there's already tons of foreshadowing for it with Skovald's daughter and Sylvanas ruining any chance of them allying with the Horde.

Draenor Orcs: As shown by the dark iron dwarves, lightforged, void elves, and highmountain tauren, Blizzard seems to want allied races to have more than just skin color, which would rule out traditional mag'har. By having them be from Draenor, you could throw in blackrock and shattered hand skins, maybe some Iron Horde themed customization, etc.

Kvaldir: Just like void elves and nightborne balance each other out, I could see horde kvaldir countering alliance vrykul. Their drowned sailor themes would fit well with the Forsaken, and if there are any still loyal to Helya they'd probaby like Sylvanas.

Broken/Krokul: Matching the Zandalari in that they're a racial variant with far more visual distinction from their parent race than the other allied races. They'd probably come from Argus given that model, as Leviathon pointed out, has a lot rigging already. Then again, they could also just retcon it so that both Outland and Argus broken looked the same.

Ones I don't think would be allied races:

Ogres: All the allied races shown so far have been variants of existing races or extremely similar to existing ones. Ogres I think are unique enough to be just a regular new race.

Wildhammer dwarvers: As I mentioned, Blizzard seems to want allied races to have more separating them from their parent races than just skin options. Hence the highmountain and lightforged's unique horns, or the dark iron dwarves' fire-beards. I'm not sure what they would add to the Wildhammer dwarves to make them stand out in the same way.

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 11-06-2017 at 06:04 PM..
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  #734  
Old 11-06-2017, 08:28 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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Kul Tiras(ian?) Humans seem like a no brainer to me.
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  #735  
Old 11-07-2017, 11:56 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Kul Tiras(ian?) Humans seem like a no brainer to me.
Was talking with Marthen, I think thats what they'll add instead of Vrykul
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  #736  
Old 11-07-2017, 04:20 PM
AndyJP AndyJP is offline

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All the Trolls for Horde, all the Dwarves for Alliance

Hozen and Wolvar for Horde, Jinyu and Oracles for Alliance
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  #737  
Old 11-07-2017, 04:32 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Iwant to like Hozen and wolvar but they are so dumb
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  #738  
Old 11-07-2017, 10:46 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Decided to merge the subraces and new races thread since having two separate threads seems somewhat redundant after B4A's announcement.
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  #739  
Old 11-07-2017, 11:27 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Bored at work, so heres some badly written head canon reasons:

Alliance:

Vrykul: With the defeat of Helya and the rise of the God Queen, Sigryn, Eyir has tasked her mortal champion with vengeance upon the Banshee Queen and the recovery - or destruction - of the wayward Valkyr. To this end Sigryn dispatches her most powerful Vrykul to aid the Alliance in their war against the Banshee Queen's Horde.

Jinyu: The war against the Hozen and the rise of the Sha has left the Jinyu's numbers depleted, but still the brave peoples of the Jade Forest fight on. As the war slowly engulfs the entire world, champions from amongst the Jinyu remember their kinship with the Alliance soldiers that drove the Hozen back. Thus, the Jinyu have decided now is the time to repay their allies, and take their first steps into the wider world.

Earthen: The tear in Azeroth has done more than simply wound the world. As the world cries out in pain, ancient vaults begin to stir, coming to life after eons of dormancy. So to do the Earthen of your vault come to life, stirred by the agonized cries of the world. Finding kinship with their flesh cursed brethren, the Earthen are prepared to do what it takes to heal the world.

Wildhammers: long standing allies of the Alliance, these Wildhammer dwarves, led by Kurdran Wildhammer, have once again taken to the skies to fight alongside their allies and comrades in defense of the Eastern Kingdoms. (Story could focus on bringing the veterans from Wildhammer Stronghold back, with Kurdran being inspired by his old friends return)

And since a lot of these are cosmetic changes, mostly...

Sons of Lothar: Veterans of the Second War, these grizzled soldiers have stood unbending against the might of the Orcish Hordes, The Burning Legion, and the Illidari. Now, after decades away from home, these brave soldiers march one last time to reclaim their home alongside their once lost leaders. (Cosmetic locked to look older, heritage armour would be footman skin, Humans with alternate racials)

Im sure someone who plays and enjoys Horde could come up with better ones than anything i can think of!
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So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #740  
Old 11-08-2017, 04:24 PM
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  #741  
Old 11-08-2017, 06:20 PM
Mending Mending is offline

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Default Nightborne Troggs..

With the nightborne and the void elves being announced, it got me thinking which groups consisting of the current playable races would join the opposite faction to allow for more cross faction allied races.

Alliance:
-Orcs: Half-draenei (blue orcs with crests) or whatever’s left of the uncorrupted MU Laughing Skull orcs
-Tauren: Stonetalon Grimtotem
-Trolls: Dark trolls
-Forsaken: Desolate Council Forsaken or followers of Alonsus
-Goblin: A new Alliance-leaning cartel

Horde:
-Humans: Newly resurrected humans
-Dwarves: Not sure. Maybe Dark Iron that continue to oppose Moira and her son?
-Gnomes: Leper gnomes
-Draenei: Half-orcs (green draenei with tusks)
-Worgen: Not sure either. Maybe leftover Grizzly Hills Wolfcult wanting to join the Lich Queen?
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  #742  
Old 11-08-2017, 07:02 PM
Apep Apep is offline

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Putting similar races from one faction on the other doesn't feel good. What's the point of a faction then? And if there isn't a point, then why not just eliminate factions altogether? And if it's a 1:1 ratio it just seems contrived.
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  #743  
Old 11-08-2017, 07:43 PM
Melorandor Melorandor is offline

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  #744  
Old 11-08-2017, 07:55 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apep View Post
Putting similar races from one faction on the other doesn't feel good. What's the point of a faction then? And if there isn't a point, then why not just eliminate factions altogether? And if it's a 1:1 ratio it just seems contrived.
Agreed, need some variety
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  #745  
Old 11-08-2017, 11:11 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Default Nightborne cats, yay!

I'm more in the middle ground.

Some cross-faction allied races would make quite a bit of sense, like Desolate Council Forsaken on the Alliance and Nathanos-like undead in the Horde, and I'm not opposed to their addition, but Blizzard should not add too many of them (and definitely not for each race) since it would cheapen the allied races feature and imply that they've little consideration for the story.
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  #746  
Old 11-09-2017, 02:27 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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We dont yet know if the Desolate Council are (or were, i imagine...) Alliance sympathizers or if they just simply want the Forsaken to end. Sylvanas wants her people to continue due to her fear of what comes after; there are probably a number of Forsaken that were only interested in continuing their people long enough to get vengeance against Arthas, that view their existence as a curse to be endured.

Though, if thats the case, why didnt they end themselves? Hmm.
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #747  
Old 11-09-2017, 05:45 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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The fuck is a desolate council?
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #748  
Old 11-09-2017, 05:59 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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vulpera sub/alied race goblin!!!


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  #749  
Old 11-09-2017, 06:18 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Quote:
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The fuck is a desolate council?
A faction of the forsaken that presumably opposes Sylvanas' desire to propagate the Forsaken, introduced in the excerpt we got from the next book.
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #750  
Old 11-09-2017, 06:27 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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The fuck is a desolate council?
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