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  #5076  
Old 04-28-2018, 04:50 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Blood Elves (Nightborne) are basically High Elves (night elves.) Slightly different eye color (hair color) and backstory, but if you want to be a light-skinned (purple-skinned) elf, that is basically a High (night) Elf. Giving that to the Alliance (Horde) would blur the line between factions.


Yeah, paraphrasing, but the point stands. By the exact same reasoning with which he dismisses playable high elves for the Alliance, the Highborne should not be playable for the Horde.

I don't/didn't want either of them (or any more races for that matter) to be playable, but really? That's the excuse they have for it? And it's topped off with some imbecilic faction-baiting? What the hell?

There aren't a ton of High Elves out there in WoW.


Yeah, and there aren't a ton of void elves either. They're literally like a tiny club of Umbric and his magic-using pals who got kicked out of Silvermoon. Whereas the high elves had an army in Northrend. So yeah...pretty idiotic reasoning here too.

They should just say they don't want 'em. Or they think they're boring. Or they have cooler stuff they're working on. I know there's a faction war story going on, so it's a hard impulse to avoid, but can you try not treating everyone like morons from time to time?
There's absolutely no logic reason for not implementing high elves as an allied race. The Nightborne and the void elves only make it even worse.

Blizzard is just arrogant and full of itself, they'd rather make one shitty excuse after another than admit they're wrong.

Still think the concept of allied races is flawed from the very beginning anyway. Prestige transformations would have been a better alternative.

And you don't even need that much either. Literally, the only thing they had to do to make everyone happy, was playable high elves and playable ogres.
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  #5077  
Old 04-28-2018, 10:20 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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So, Dark Iron/Mag'har preview.

For untold generations, the orc clans of Draenor battled one another in endless war. But when Gul'dan offered them the blood of his demonic masters, the disparate tribes of Mag'har—the orcish word for "uncorrupted"—refused the dark bargain and banded together to drive out the Burning Legion. United under the leadership of Grommash Hellscream, the Mag'har pledged to one day repay Azeroth's heroes for aiding their cause. As war against the Alliance intensifies, the Horde must call upon the might of the Mag'har to seize victory.

This...isn't what happened. "Helped them with their cause?" What the hell? Are the developers on drugs? Have they completely forgotten WoD? "Their cause" was to invade and conquer Azeroth. We stopped them. By the end of the expansion most of them were defeated villains who'd sworn fealty to the Burning Legion. They never swore to help us in the future, that was Yrel.

So apparently the only way they could think of to give players brown orcs was to transplant the WoD story of the draenei onto the Iron Horde instead and describe them as having been good guys all along that we helped defeat the demons.

This is exactly the sort of stupid crap that makes me ever more staunchly against the entire idea of Allied Races. They just can't seem to help justifying their presence with badly written inconsistencies and retcons. I've seen not a single Allied Race yet that's made me think "oh yeah, it totally makes sense to me that they'd want to fight and die for the Alliance/Horde against the Alliance/Horde." Not one.

Last edited by ARM3481; 04-28-2018 at 10:43 PM..
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  #5078  
Old 04-28-2018, 10:29 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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That's just them fixing Warlords of Draenor.
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  #5079  
Old 04-29-2018, 02:40 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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It seems like Ion has also demolished the request for more normal-looking customization for Void Elves with his answers as well. Between that and the rampant requests for Blood Elves to get blue eyes (something of which he implied they may do) plus the lack of getting enough of a voice heard on more customization for races I'd want to see, it looks like I will no longer be posting on the WoW forums again because making requests is just a pointless waste of time and I have no more ideas to share anymore.
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  #5080  
Old 04-29-2018, 05:00 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
So, Dark Iron/Mag'har preview.

For untold generations, the orc clans of Draenor battled one another in endless war. But when Gul'dan offered them the blood of his demonic masters, the disparate tribes of Mag'har—the orcish word for "uncorrupted"—refused the dark bargain and banded together to drive out the Burning Legion. United under the leadership of Grommash Hellscream, the Mag'har pledged to one day repay Azeroth's heroes for aiding their cause. As war against the Alliance intensifies, the Horde must call upon the might of the Mag'har to seize victory.

This...isn't what happened. "Helped them with their cause?" What the hell? Are the developers on drugs? Have they completely forgotten WoD? "Their cause" was to invade and conquer Azeroth. We stopped them. By the end of the expansion most of them were defeated villains who'd sworn fealty to the Burning Legion. They never swore to help us in the future, that was Yrel.

So apparently the only way they could think of to give players brown orcs was to transplant the WoD story of the draenei onto the Iron Horde instead and describe them as having been good guys all along that we helped defeat the demons.

This is exactly the sort of stupid crap that makes me ever more staunchly against the entire idea of Allied Races. They just can't seem to help justifying their presence with badly written inconsistencies and retcons. I've seen not a single Allied Race yet that's made me think "oh yeah, it totally makes sense to me that they'd want to fight and die for the Alliance/Horde against the Alliance/Horde." Not one.
I've been saying this all along ever since the first hints of playable mag'har appeared. Using the alternate universe is a huge storytelling mistake. There's nothing the AU!Mag'har have in terms of customization that you couldn't justify in the Outland Mag'har, but the story would be way stronger.

Outland mag'har is also a gestalt clan, with Warsong and Bleeding Hollow being confirmed among them, and other clans could be retconned in (it's not like we delved deep into them back in TBC). There has been around 10 years since we pacified Outland, so many children could be turning adults right now. Revisiting Outland would be more interesting than seeing AU!Draenor again. And heck, they'd at least have a valid reason to come to Azeroth and fight, as Outland is slowly dying.

Legion seemed like Blizzard was trying to up their storytelling. It had its weak moments, specially in later patches, but it was good overall (still not as good as MoP), but story decisions for BfA already make no damn sense. The Horde supporting Sylvanas makes no sense. Void elves make no sense. AU Mag'har make no sense. So many questionable decisions!

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
It seems like Ion has also demolished the request for more normal-looking customization for Void Elves with his answers as well. Between that and the rampant requests for Blood Elves to get blue eyes (something of which he implied they may do) plus the lack of getting enough of a voice heard on more customization for races I'd want to see, it looks like I will no longer be posting on the WoW forums again because making requests is just a pointless waste of time and I have no more ideas to share anymore.
Ion's answer makes me believe Blizzard has no fucking idea of what to do with void elves at all. He could have promoted the void elves in his answer, saying something cool about their future, anything. Instead, he said the ill-thought "you can go Horde". Have you noticed that in all interviews and panels since Blizzcon, all Blizzard representatives said about void elves is the "crack elite squad of elves led by Alleria"? They never promoted the void elves in any way, they never talk about them. To me, that says a lot. It means void elves are what we see, they have no depth, no plans, no future.
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Last edited by Deicide; 04-29-2018 at 05:08 AM..
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  #5081  
Old 04-29-2018, 08:40 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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I wouldn't be surprised if it was posted already, but found this MMO-C thread with some pretty cool images:

















































Pretty cool stuff.
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Last edited by Lon-ami; 04-29-2018 at 10:14 AM..
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  #5082  
Old 04-29-2018, 10:52 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Well least it seems I'm not really missing anything of value not really looking at SoL anymore.
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  #5083  
Old 04-29-2018, 01:40 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I've been saying this all along ever since the first hints of playable mag'har appeared. Using the alternate universe is a huge storytelling mistake. There's nothing the AU!Mag'har have in terms of customization that you couldn't justify in the Outland Mag'har, but the story would be way stronger.

Outland mag'har is also a gestalt clan, with Warsong and Bleeding Hollow being confirmed among them, and other clans could be retconned in (it's not like we delved deep into them back in TBC). There has been around 10 years since we pacified Outland, so many children could be turning adults right now. Revisiting Outland would be more interesting than seeing AU!Draenor again. And heck, they'd at least have a valid reason to come to Azeroth and fight, as Outland is slowly dying.
Well, the AU stuff could be used for things; it's using them as an Allied Race in particular that's an issue. In particular, by using Mag'har who aren't Frostwolves, Laughing Skull and/or the Shadowmoon Exiles. It doesn't work because the other AU clans were all villains for the entire expansion and were still villains when we left, who'd by that time betrayed even Grommash to join the Burning Legion.

Outland's Mag'har are confirmed as having members from at least four clans: Frostwolves Geyah and Aggra, Bleeding Hollow Jorin Deadeye, Warsong Garrosh, and Blackrock Dranosh Saurfang. It's fairly likely they're comprised of orcs from pretty much any clan whose members weren't too insane and monstrous to coexist peaceably with the rest (like, say, the Bonechewers and Twilight's Hammer) though one supposes if they were young enough when quarantined, they might have grown up not-crazy.

Plus I'd imagine those two clans in particular would probably just kill anyone in their midst who got sick rather than send them off to a quarantine.

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Ion's answer makes me believe Blizzard has no fucking idea of what to do with void elves at all. He could have promoted the void elves in his answer, saying something cool about their future, anything. Instead, he said the ill-thought "you can go Horde". Have you noticed that in all interviews and panels since Blizzcon, all Blizzard representatives said about void elves is the "crack elite squad of elves led by Alleria"? They never promoted the void elves in any way, they never talk about them. To me, that says a lot. It means void elves are what we see, they have no depth, no plans, no future.
They'll get their depth right about the time the Void takes center-stage and a neutral offshoot of void elves pops up to hand out piles of quests to everyone in both factions.

That's why I'm so against Allied Races. "Being in the Alliance/Horde" will quickly become the only thing that really matters about any of them, and further development will only arise if their racial arch-nemesis is one of the Big Bads, and often not even then.

Last edited by ARM3481; 04-29-2018 at 01:56 PM..
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  #5084  
Old 04-29-2018, 04:26 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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WTF are you guys even talking about.
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  #5085  
Old 04-29-2018, 05:41 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
They'll get their depth right about the time the Void takes center-stage and a neutral offshoot of void elves pops up to hand out piles of quests to everyone in both factions.
I have this feeling that Alleria will be important, not the void elves. The void elves are just a poorly-thought plot device to allow players to be "Alleria elves" (while looking nothing like her). When the moment comes, she will do the important stuff, while the void elves will be just standing there for a while.

Much like the Illidari ended up not being important at all after 7.0. Illidan stole all the spotlight, his followers were forgotten. Except that void elves won't even get a small role in a X.0 patch.
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  #5086  
Old 04-29-2018, 05:57 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
They'll get their depth right about the time the Void takes center-stage and a neutral offshoot of void elves pops up to hand out piles of quests to everyone in both factions.

That's why I'm so against Allied Races. "Being in the Alliance/Horde" will quickly become the only thing that really matters about any of them, and further development will only arise if their racial arch-nemesis is one of the Big Bads, and often not even then.
Not to mention it seems as if they've decided to go back on that whole "give us feedback on what races you'd like to see made playable and we'll look into it" aspect that was meant to be part of the package for allied races, but only Dark Iron Dwarves and Mag'har Orcs seem to fit that aspect. No Krokul, no Furbolg, no Vrykul, and they just shot down a race that thousands of people were asking for, so at that point what other allied races are people wanting?

I'm guessing it will be something based on Worgen, Gnomes, Undead, and Goblins. Those are the four races that don't have an offshoot. Problem is, I can easily see even more asspulls coming from those races. Night Elf Worgen don't sound interesting at all, what would be the point of them when Gilnean Worgen have the same themes? Gnomes and Goblins don't have respectable offshoots. Undead could have Nathanos-style Humans or Dark Ranger elves, but I don't think Blizzard would be in the habit of adding even more elf offshoots, and again it'd be just more of the same and not anything new or interesting.

Stuff like this just highlights why it was a mistake to make this a concept beyond just extra customization added to the character creation screen, which is how it should have been done from the very beginning and it's probably why my enthusiasm for allied races will die down after I get Kul Tiran Druids with creepy tree monster forms.
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  #5087  
Old 04-29-2018, 08:22 PM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

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I also have a feeling that the ones most bothered by it are the ones less likely to keep an active sub
... yes, if I'm not happy with the game or its devs... I'm not going to pay.

What kind of argument even is that?
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  #5088  
Old 04-29-2018, 10:03 PM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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I have this feeling that Alleria will be important, not the void elves. The void elves are just a poorly-thought plot device to allow players to be "Alleria elves" (while looking nothing like her). When the moment comes, she will do the important stuff, while the void elves will be just standing there for a while.

Much like the Illidari ended up not being important at all after 7.0. Illidan stole all the spotlight, his followers were forgotten. Except that void elves won't even get a small role in a X.0 patch.
It's an extreme case of the Blizzard Hero narrative.
The story is so focused around a few characters, and on heroic moments that it's hard to develop stories outside of them.
Minor races having less screen time they end up looking like they're just one major characters and 2/3 minor ones.
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  #5089  
Old 04-30-2018, 12:06 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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... yes, if I'm not happy with the game or its devs... I'm not going to pay.

What kind of argument even is that?
What a way to strawman my point.
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  #5090  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:04 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Stuff like this just highlights why it was a mistake to make this a concept beyond just extra customization added to the character creation screen, which is how it should have been done from the very beginning and it's probably why my enthusiasm for allied races will die down after I get Kul Tiran Druids with creepy tree monster forms.
By that logic, if they had done that from the beginning, blood elves would get a blue-eyed option, since the playable blood-elf model was originally horde only. The rage this would cause would melt the face of any blizzard employee foolish enough to check the official forums.

I don't know what this fascination with ogres is coming from, since all the ogres I see from azeroth are big, dumb, diaper wearing babies. The only ogres I would play would be gorians from draenor.
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  #5091  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:13 AM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

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What a way to strawman my point.
I'm not sure what your point is from that other than, "people who don't like the thing won't pay for it."

Not that WoW or its devs being shitty has stopped me before, mind you.
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  #5092  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:33 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I'm not sure what your point is from that other than, "people who don't like the thing won't pay for it."

Not that WoW or its devs being shitty has stopped me before, mind you.
My point is, among other things, "people who are less likely to having been paying throughout the course of the last expansion are the ones who didn't like what he said".

Only with a reverse order of correlation. It means that there's a good chance that anyone who didn't like what he said hasn't been keeping an active sub throughout Legion. And even if they do, they aren't as concerned with competitive challenges not even on the level of a Normal difficulty/barely Heroic raider.
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  #5093  
Old 04-30-2018, 12:11 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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By that logic, if they had done that from the beginning, blood elves would get a blue-eyed option, since the playable blood-elf model was originally horde only. The rage this would cause would melt the face of any blizzard employee foolish enough to check the official forums.

I don't know what this fascination with ogres is coming from, since all the ogres I see from azeroth are big, dumb, diaper wearing babies. The only ogres I would play would be gorians from draenor.
That or Blood Elves only get blue eyes when they pick Void Elf skin tones.

Thing is, I actually like Void Elves as Alliance and prefer them over High Elves, but I guess them and Nightborne would be more difficult to translate into simple customization if they were still going to be joining the factions they were joining rather than just go to the same faction their cousin race is in.

I wouldn't care if Blood Elves got blue eyes as long as Void Elves got more High Elf skin tones. Right now though I don't think Blood Elves deserve anymore customization options until Blizzard brings other races up to their speed after they got golden eyes.
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  #5094  
Old 04-30-2018, 12:29 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
I wouldn't care if Blood Elves got blue eyes as long as Void Elves got more High Elf skin tones. Right now though I don't think Blood Elves deserve anymore customization options until Blizzard brings other races up to their speed after they got golden eyes.
I wouldn't oppose normal skin-tones for void elves. As someone who opposed high-elves until recently, I would have preferred them to the void elves. But blizzard has made their bed and they have to lie in it.
Sorry if I seemed overly-aggressive. I'm just really tired of all the high-elf threads cluttering up the official forums and mmo champion(I really should stop visiting those places). I would say just give them the damn elves to shut them up, but I think that ship has sailed with void elves being introduced instead.

Last edited by Mungo; 04-30-2018 at 12:33 PM.. Reason: change a few words
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  #5095  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:04 PM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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  #5096  
Old 04-30-2018, 05:09 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Reputation mounts:
http://www.wowhead.com/news=284000/n...utation-mounts

Well... Yes, the mounts make sense, but... And I really like having more gryphons and horses around but... Three gryphons and three horses against a blood tick, four pterosaurs and an hyena?

If Blizzard is trying to dispel the "Horde bias" accusations, it is doing a very poor job.
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  #5097  
Old 04-30-2018, 10:33 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
I wouldn't oppose normal skin-tones for void elves. As someone who opposed high-elves until recently, I would have preferred them to the void elves. But blizzard has made their bed and they have to lie in it.
Sorry if I seemed overly-aggressive. I'm just really tired of all the high-elf threads cluttering up the official forums and mmo champion(I really should stop visiting those places). I would say just give them the damn elves to shut them up, but I think that ship has sailed with void elves being introduced instead.
Naaah, no need. Didn't read any aggressiveness in that and yeah I more or less am in the same boat as you on the whole topic.

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Reputation mounts:
http://www.wowhead.com/news=284000/n...utation-mounts

Well... Yes, the mounts make sense, but... And I really like having more gryphons and horses around but... Three gryphons and three horses against a blood tick, four pterosaurs and an hyena?

If Blizzard is trying to dispel the "Horde bias" accusations, it is doing a very poor job.
The horses are pretty meh but I completely support having more recolors of gryphons. Have been wanting gryphons wearing different colored armor to represent the other kingdoms and this seems to be the closest we'll ever get to that. (The black/grey one is going to suit Gilneans perfect, and I will ride the green one on the Kul Tiran Druid I plan to make from time to time when I'm not going to use the flight form that I anticipate will be amazing looking.)
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  #5098  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:37 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Panda Must be the estrogen rising again.

Blizzard wants me to hate Alliance players but all they're doing with shit like rep horsies is make me want to hug Alliance players and tell them it's all going to get better. Somehow. Poor, poor Alliance.

Last edited by Commander Rotal; 05-01-2018 at 12:50 AM..
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  #5099  
Old 05-01-2018, 01:38 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I don't mind the horses. HD horses look great, and let's not forget that the Alliance allied races also got more unique mounts than the Horde. At least the DI did. Two new rams, a completely new one-headed corehound and a completely new... Forgot the name hound. Mag'har got a clefthoof and another wolf. Granted, it's a new wolf model, but they can't even tame any lookalikes.

Besides, I bet you'll be able to use these while on the opposite faction too. I think that's how most of WoD's mounts worked.
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:30 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Can't wait to use that black gryphon with my death knight.
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