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  #51  
Old 08-09-2014, 12:48 PM
Afaslizo Afaslizo is offline

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Basing WoW on Warcraft 2 instead of Warcraft 3 and its more than 2 factions was the biggest failure and the root of everything since.
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Did they just say the BL is worse than the Old Gods?
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If BL stands for Blizzard, then yeah.
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  #52  
Old 09-09-2014, 11:14 AM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

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Garrosh. Certain elements of wrath (Kel'thuzad being active is lame, the needless stupidity of the faction war), making the orcs evil again.

Deathwing actually got some fleshing out in things like Charge of the Aspects (we find out more about his motivations, and the scene where he fucks with thrall by giving him his powers and then beating him up was well done).

Certain elements of Cataclysm (would have loved to see Vash'jir fleshed out more, the fight with N'Zoth or the Naga). iffy I think said that Cataclysm tried to cram too much into a single expansion, leaving a lot of half baked ideas that never went anywhere.

lack of potential for characters like Sabellian (seriously, a son of Deathwing who actually seems like a reasonably decent individual, the possibility that maybe some elements of the black flight (those on draenor away from the influence of the old gods) could be redeemed.

Lack of Draenei lore (I actually didn't mind the retcon, and think they and the orcs should have been more prominent in burning crusade; i.e. we learn more about the war, the orcs finally coming to terms with what they did and finally apologizing to the draenei.)

The legion getting pushed into the background since Burning Crusade.

The fact that the aspects were depowered NOW while N'zoth is still out there. Y'shaarj, C'thun and possibly Yogg Saron are dead, but there might be two gods still out there.
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  #53  
Old 09-09-2014, 11:17 AM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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Poor little Neptulon.
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  #54  
Old 09-09-2014, 11:22 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Ol'Yoggy View Post
The fact that the aspects were depowered NOW while N'zoth is still out there. Y'shaarj, C'thun and possibly Yogg Saron are dead, but there might be two gods still out there.
Worse than that, everyone who knew the Old Gods were behind Deathwing and the Twiligh's Hammer just up and forgetting all about it once he was dead, despite nary a single Old God being confronted and neutralized during the events of Cataclysm. Not having their Aspect powers doesn't mean they should just call it quits on doing something about Deathwing's bosses.

It's one of those irritating cases where the characters pretty much just write it off as "we'll deal with it in another expansion."

Garrosh just had to be stopped now, but the eldritch horrors bent on destroying all life can apparently be left on the back-burner until the next time they outright demand attention by killing a massive number of people.
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  #55  
Old 09-09-2014, 11:37 AM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Pretty much the whole BC story, especially Kael's characterization.
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  #56  
Old 09-09-2014, 11:52 AM
Arashi Arashi is offline

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Mists of Pandaria not having a satisfying conclusion.

People died for absolutely nothing.
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  #57  
Old 09-09-2014, 01:36 PM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

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Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Pretty much the whole BC story, especially Kael's characterization.
Blasphemous as it sounds I didn't mind Kael's fall. He only served Illidan because he thought it would help his people. He's naturally turn to another source when Illidan failed, and people do do stupid things when they're desperate. I can see him siding with Kil'jaeden out of desperation. The Fel energy would do the rest, combined with his people rejecting his vision, his violent death in tempest keep, and the circumstances of his rebirth.

The Old gods legacy was technically touched on with Y'Shaarj, and for the time being the old god's have been weakened (Deathwing's dead, the mortal followers have been crushed and scattered to the winds). Y'Shaarj and C'thun are gone forever, Yogg Saron is incapacitated, and two of their most powerful warriors (Al'Akir and Ragnaros) are dead. It was stupid in many ways but the Old God's have been crippled for now.

Honestly, here are some things that probably should have happened

1.) Darion replaces Kel'thuzad as Arthas's right hand. Say that during Light's Hope in the Ashbringer comic the act of self sacrifice purifies the blade (since it was selfish hatred that corrupted it an act of selfless love restoring it is great symmetry). The souls that were under the chapel fall on Kel'thuzad and annihilate him, dragging his soul to the fiery depths of hell for his sins. It would bring Kel'thuzad's arc to a close (he didn't really do a damn thing in game) and give us more with Darion (Arthas could corrupt Darion's corpse out of spite)

2.) As weird as it sounds, make Burning Crusade cover the orcs more thoroughly alongside the Draenei and Blood Elves. Rise of the Horde had Thrall acknowledge that the legion and the blood were only factors in the corruption, and that the orcs couldn't afford to just play victim. More orc draenei interaction would have allowed the race to develop in meaningful ways; the orcs would be forced to fully face up to the role they played in the genocide, come to term with the nastier sides of their past. The orcs could then try to keep the blood elves from walking the same path they did, and finally mature as a race. The Draenei would struggle with having to forgive those who betrayed them, could finally resettle somewhere safe where the legion can't hurt them, and begin the process of rebuilding.
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  #58  
Old 09-09-2014, 05:51 PM
Triceron Triceron is offline

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Knaak's stories (post Day of the Dragon) and creation of Med'an. Cataclysm comes very close to this, in having dropped the ball completely in terms of story and content.

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Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Pretty much the whole BC story, especially Kael's characterization.
Kael was a tragic hero. I didn't think he was villain material at all. The way they turned him evil in TBC is like if they made Baine a villain after Cairne's death. It never really made sense to me, especially since they had the story for all the Blood Elves siding with the Horde written and ready for TBC. It's not like Kael was loyal to Illidan anyways, and the Horde still more or less allowed the Fel-using Blood Elves to join the Horde. They only stopped using Fel magic after the fact.

Last edited by Triceron; 09-09-2014 at 05:57 PM..
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  #59  
Old 09-14-2014, 02:24 PM
thedreamwithin thedreamwithin is offline

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I am disappointed with the amount of fans that see Garrosh only as a villain and not a tragic hero, the expansion's Macbeth if you will.

Though I am more disappointed in Blizzard for not portraying Garrosh -and their antagonists at large -in more subtle tones rather than simply black and white.

But then broad brush strokes of black and white are perhaps what's needed to sell.
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  #60  
Old 09-14-2014, 02:53 PM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Though I am more disappointed in Blizzard for not portraying Garrosh -and their antagonists at large -in more subtle tones rather than simply black and white.
The villains were the rebels, not Garrosh.
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  #61  
Old 09-14-2014, 04:26 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Westlee View Post
The villains were the rebels, not Garrosh.
Regardless of the rebels, what he did to the Vale was inexcusable and made him a villain.
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  #62  
Old 09-14-2014, 04:31 PM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Regardless of the rebels, what he did to the Vale was inexcusable and made him a villain.
What other choice did he have? He'd been betrayed by the majority of the Horde during a time of war for virtually no reason whatsoever.
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  #63  
Old 09-14-2014, 05:11 PM
Kynrind Kynrind is offline

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Originally Posted by Westlee View Post
What other choice did he have? He'd been betrayed by the majority of the Horde during a time of war for virtually no reason whatsoever.
He could have stopped being a racist jackass on a powertrip with a sideline of 'ORCS RULE!'. No matter that people like him, he was a racist and those actions and attitude are what helped drive away the rest of the Horde.
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  #64  
Old 09-15-2014, 01:58 AM
Valtheria Valtheria is offline

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He could have stopped being a racist jackass on a powertrip with a sideline of 'ORCS RULE!'. No matter that people like him, he was a racist and those actions and attitude are what helped drive away the rest of the Horde.
But but. Garrosh can't be wrong! Clearly it was everyone else's fault for just being too sensitive to his policies!

Anyway, I'm gonna go with Lordaeron.
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  #65  
Old 09-15-2014, 06:36 AM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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He could have stopped being a racist jackass on a powertrip with a sideline of 'ORCS RULE!'. No matter that people like him, he was a racist and those actions and attitude are what helped drive away the rest of the Horde.
Explain to me where he was a racist jackass?
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  #66  
Old 09-22-2014, 12:24 PM
Melisande Melisande is offline

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For me the worst thing about WoW is the inclusion of the factions. WC3 ended on a perfectly fine note with the Alliance, the Horde, and the Night Elves learning to put aside their differences and work together. Tensions were there, but there were ways to diffuse them...and having an alliance fraught with tension is a great story telling device, just look at the Horde.

Having two player base factions meant things had to be split, the Forsaken had to be a player race to balance out the human presence in the Eastern Kingdoms, instead of serving as a 3rd evil faction as they were largely set up as...and as they have behaved ever since. It splits the player base and leads to contentious attitudes, just look no further than this forum. And it really prevents plot threads from ending as they should because 'balance.'
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  #67  
Old 09-22-2014, 12:31 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Melisande View Post
For me the worst thing about WoW is the inclusion of the factions. WC3 ended on a perfectly fine note with the Alliance, the Horde, and the Night Elves learning to put aside their differences and work together. Tensions were there, but there were ways to diffuse them...and having an alliance fraught with tension is a great story telling device, just look at the Horde.

Having two player base factions meant things had to be split, the Forsaken had to be a player race to balance out the human presence in the Eastern Kingdoms, instead of serving as a 3rd evil faction as they were largely set up as...and as they have behaved ever since. It splits the player base and leads to contentious attitudes, just look no further than this forum. And it really prevents plot threads from ending as they should because 'balance.'
I heartily approve of this post. I wonder how many races would get any development in such a scenario, though. All, a few or just the orcs?
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  #68  
Old 09-22-2014, 12:36 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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I heartily approve of this post. I wonder how many races would get any development in such a scenario, though. All, a few or just the orcs?
There's a part of me that thinks racial focus wouldn't actually change much. Humans and Orcs would still likely get the largest pieces of pie because they are the heart and soul of the franchise. Not like I have a problem with this, but I would garner that non-human fans still wouldn't be satisfied with the outcome.

At least we could rest assured that certain things we wanted would actually be made possible though, like Gilneas being a properly accessible city with NPC's. The faction system definitely has a flaw in that certain things can't be attained because it would upset game equity.
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  #69  
Old 09-22-2014, 12:47 PM
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Also Al'Akir, he should at the very least have made an appearance in Uldum.
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  #70  
Old 09-22-2014, 12:52 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
There's a part of me that thinks racial focus wouldn't actually change much. Humans and Orcs would still likely get the largest pieces of pie because they are the heart and soul of the franchise. Not like I have a problem with this, but I would garner that non-human fans still wouldn't be satisfied with the outcome.

At least we could rest assured that certain things we wanted would actually be made possible though, like Gilneas being a properly accessible city with NPC's. The faction system definitely has a flaw in that certain things can't be attained because it would upset game equity.
Night Elves, although neglected, would have made their fans happy due to being allowed to keep their fae, giant and dragonkin allies!
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  #71  
Old 09-22-2014, 12:53 PM
Melisande Melisande is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
I heartily approve of this post. I wonder how many races would get any development in such a scenario, though. All, a few or just the orcs?
Because I want to believe I would say more would, just be virtue of having to work together and there's no antagonistic relationship that requires having a 'face' for each faction. Also if it was going from the WC3 scenario, then the Night Elves are still a powerful faction in their own right rather than a member of the Alliance. But I guess I'm taking a highly optimistic view.
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"Do they not know who we are, my brethren? We are the chosen of the Emperor, the scions of Terra. We are dominion and we are numberless. We are war itself and the death of all who oppose us. We are Humanity and we shall educate our ignorant foes as to the true meaning of that word!"
--Lord Inquisitor Aedrick Mantel of the Ordo Xenos
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  #72  
Old 09-22-2014, 12:57 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
Also Al'Akir, he should at the very least have made an appearance in Uldum.
I agree, I wish they had did more with the air elemental plane in general because that is my most favorite plane aesthetically. (And musically as well, I love the music of Skywall.)

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Night Elves, although neglected, would have made their fans happy due to being allowed to keep their fae, giant and dragonkin allies!
Perhaps, but certain races I like probably wouldn't exist sadly.
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  #73  
Old 09-22-2014, 01:10 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Gonna add the blood elf storyline after TFT. The whole demon draining started out good but ended with a pile of poop.
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  #74  
Old 09-22-2014, 01:44 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Jaina: "Dismantle the Horde"

Varian: "Guardsmen!"

*Walks forward with his larger army, Jaina, Moira, the rest of the Alliance heroes and SI7 and stuff that are there*

Varian looks at his sword...

Varian: "Nah! U WANT PC VOLJIN?"

Vol'jin: "Uh... sure, mon?"

Varian: "KAY BYE."
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So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #75  
Old 09-22-2014, 02:00 PM
Kynrind Kynrind is offline

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Originally Posted by Westlee View Post
Explain to me where he was a racist jackass?
His insistence that orcs were better than any other race. That the other races were more or less lazy, incompetent, cowardly, subhuman(orchish). He pretty much was very racist to the non orcs, especially the trolls. And he was a jackass to everyone; willing to kill the messenger among things.
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