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  #726  
Old 11-09-2014, 10:23 PM
Skullcrusha Skullcrusha is offline

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I don't remember him ever saying that.
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  #727  
Old 11-09-2014, 11:08 PM
Sceptic Sceptic is offline

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I don't remember him ever saying that.


Minute 20. I don't understand the need for a "different spin" on the character. It doesn't differ from the Lothar I know from "The Last Guardian", who also loves his homeland and his king and isn't two-dimensional at all. You don't have to give him a "lost son" to make him interesting- just emphasize his relationship to Medivh, perhaps his struggle to kill his friend.

Somehow I get the feeling that this change was made to make Durotan look better by comparison. For example, Durotan tried to protect Thrall until his death, whereas Lothar couldn't protect his own son because of loyalty. Do we really need another proof that Durotan and Thrall are better humans than the humans? Is this another "The Horde is better than the Alliance" thing?

PS: Ironically, Metzen wrote the most two-dimensional stupid good paladin of all time: Tirioooooon Fordriiiiing.

Last edited by Sceptic; 11-09-2014 at 11:38 PM..
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  #728  
Old 11-10-2014, 06:31 AM
Blayze Blayze is offline

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Wasn't it Lothar who went behind Llane's back to protect Azeroth? That's hardly being two-dimensionally Lawful Good.
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  #729  
Old 11-10-2014, 06:39 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Lothar is played by Travis. He's better than Durotan by default because of it.
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  #730  
Old 11-10-2014, 06:47 AM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Yeah laugh now.

Then laugh again, when a future bit of WoW quest text or a novel references an event that only happened in the Warcraft movie. Or when a flashback cutscene in WoW depicts some image that's movie-specific (such as showing the Dark Portal hewn from a mountain, or Dalaran floating in pre-war days).

Especially since we know so very little about the actual canon lore, when it comes to the First War. When a future product addresses a First War event that is unclear in game canon but clear in movie canon, will writers gravitate toward the movie version because it is AN ANSWER, or purposely create lore in the opposite direction just to emphasize differences?

Laugh, we laugh.
Sounds scary. Mainly because it's pessimistic, yet realistic scenario.
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  #731  
Old 11-10-2014, 07:59 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Sounds scary. Mainly because it's pessimistic, yet realistic scenario.
Actually, I think it'd be pretty cool in some cases. Not the obvious weird things like Dalaran flying. But it'd be nice to have some actual in-lore closure on parts of this war, such as ending timeline. Example: Garona is in the raid to kill Medivh -> Gul'dan falls into a coma as Medivh dies -> Doomhammer kills Blackhand and takes over when Gul'dan falls into a coma -> Garona kills King Llane -> Stormwind falls after King Llane dies -> WHAT MADE GARONA KILL KING LLANE? WAS STORMWIND'S FALL CONNECTED TO WHEN HE DIED, OR IS IT A YEAR LATER LIKE THAT RECENT TWEET SAID BUT NO FURTHER TWEETS HAVE CLARIFIED? I bet the movie will give us some answer. We'll have lore closure on the movieverse, but not the actual game's universe. Isn't that wrong, in some way?

Plus, you know the movie's going to have at least a few kickass battles. Why shouldn't these totally sweet battles be part of official lore, when we can't even reliably give counter-examples of actual battles with 100% certainty?

And since depictions of the Dark Portal have changed so much already... why shouldn't it be carved into the side of the mountain and look wicked awesome?

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Originally Posted by Sceptic View Post
Minute 20. I don't understand the need for a "different spin" on the character. It doesn't differ from the Lothar I know from "The Last Guardian", who also loves his homeland and his king and isn't two-dimensional at all. You don't have to give him a "lost son" to make him interesting- just emphasize his relationship to Medivh, perhaps his struggle to kill his friend.

Somehow I get the feeling that this change was made to make Durotan look better by comparison. For example, Durotan tried to protect Thrall until his death, whereas Lothar couldn't protect his own son because of loyalty. Do we really need another proof that Durotan and Thrall are better humans than the humans? Is this another "The Horde is better than the Alliance" thing?

PS: Ironically, Metzen wrote the most two-dimensional stupid good paladin of all time: Tirioooooon Fordriiiiing.
Ah, yes. As I read The Last Guardian, and Medivh was giving warnings/requests to Khadgar in the earlier parts of the book, I remember thinking that I wasn't sure whether I'd have trusted Lothar--if I didn't already know the Warcraft story.

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Originally Posted by The Last Guardian
But Medivh raised a hand to silence him.

“I also need you here to keep your own ears open,” said Medivh, in a quieter voice. “I have no doubt that Old Lothar has spent the past ten minutes with his ear to the door, such that there will be a keyhole-shaped impression on the side of his face.” Medivh grinned. “He knows a lot, but not all. That’s why I had to tell you, so he doesn’t pry too much out of you. I need someone to guard the Guardian, as it were.”

Khadgar looked at Medivh and the older mage winked. Then the Magus strode to the door and pulled it open with a quick motion. Lothar did not stumble into the room, but he was there, right on the other side. He could have been listening, or just standing watch.
Even knowing for certain that Lothar is 100% hero, I still can't tell you whether he was eavesdropping or not. I have no idea. Either way would work, for the "healthy optimist but also pragmatist" type I get from him.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 11-10-2014 at 08:04 AM..
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  #732  
Old 11-10-2014, 08:02 AM
Sceptic Sceptic is offline

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Wasn't it Lothar who went behind Llane's back to protect Azeroth? That's hardly being two-dimensionally Lawful Good.
Exactly. He had to choose between killing Medivh, his old friend, and remaining loyal to his king, who didn't see Medivh as a threat despite signs of betrayal. Why doesn't Metzen read the old novels? I know why I prefer Warhammer Fantasy...
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  #733  
Old 11-10-2014, 08:08 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Exactly. He had to choose between killing Medivh, his old friend, and remaining loyal to his king, who didn't see Medivh as a threat despite signs of betrayal. Why doesn't Metzen read the old novels? I know why I prefer Warhammer Fantasy...
He wrote Of Blood and Honor, and that made a 12-18 year Second War.

Which is way too crazy long. But yeah, whew.
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  #734  
Old 11-10-2014, 08:16 AM
Sceptic Sceptic is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
He wrote Of Blood and Honor, and that made a 12-18 year Second War.

Which is way too crazy long. But yeah, whew.
"Of Blood and Honor" was a horrible piece of garbage *shudder* I hate Tirion. *mumble*Stupid Paladin*mumblemumble*

Yeah, I really hope they explain why Garona killed Llane. Because Orgrim said so? Don't make me laugh, Blizzard. And don#t give me the "she was mindcontrolled" excuse- the future-Garona from "The Last Guardian" clearly knew what she was doing and even had tears in her eyes.

Ohhh, don't tell me she did it because of PMS. That would be hilarious.

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Lothar is played by Travis. He's better than Durotan by default because of it.
I disagree.
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  #735  
Old 11-10-2014, 08:59 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Sceptic View Post
Yeah, I really hope they explain why Garona killed Llane. Because Orgrim said so? Don't make me laugh, Blizzard. And don#t give me the "she was mindcontrolled" excuse- the future-Garona from "The Last Guardian" clearly knew what she was doing and even had tears in her eyes.
The spell on Garona isn't mind control - it's a compulsion, which means her body obeys whoever activates the spells built into it, while her mind remains aware of what she's doing and yet powerless to intervene.

She knew what she was doing when she killed Llane - she just literally couldn't stop herself from doing it, just as she later couldn't stop herself from aiding the attack on the summit in Theramore.

Considering there's a fair chance that Gul'dan himself was already comatose when it happened, it's reasonably likely that the rest of the Shadow Council sent Garona to kill Llane, as Cho'gall proved in the comics that Gul'dan wasn't the only member capable of activating the spells to control her.
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  #736  
Old 11-10-2014, 09:32 AM
Sceptic Sceptic is offline

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The spell on Garona isn't mind control - it's a compulsion, which means her body obeys whoever activates the spells built into it, while her mind remains aware of what she's doing and yet powerless to intervene.

She knew what she was doing when she killed Llane - she just literally couldn't stop herself from doing it, just as she later couldn't stop herself from aiding the attack on the summit in Theramore.

Considering there's a fair chance that Gul'dan himself was already comatose when it happened, it's reasonably likely that the rest of the Shadow Council sent Garona to kill Llane, as Cho'gall proved in the comics that Gul'dan wasn't the only member capable of activating the spells to control her.
I know that it is canon and I never liked this explanation. The Shadow Council knew a spell that forced Garona to do certain things, but didn't use a spell so that she would never ever reveal the Shadow Councils secret location? Unlikely. The very same spell could have been used to force her to shut her mouth, even in the face of physical pain. Moreover, a similar spell could have enabled the Shadow Council to control the Warchief to a certain degree. I think that the spell was just invented because no one had a rational explanation why Garona would assassinate Llane although she liked him. They could as well have made the WC1 Horde ending canon, in which Orgrim personally kills Lllane.

Last edited by Sceptic; 11-10-2014 at 09:39 AM..
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  #737  
Old 11-10-2014, 09:55 AM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
The spell on Garona isn't mind control - it's a compulsion, which means her body obeys whoever activates the spells built into it, while her mind remains aware of what she's doing and yet powerless to intervene.

She knew what she was doing when she killed Llane - she just literally couldn't stop herself from doing it, just as she later couldn't stop herself from aiding the attack on the summit in Theramore.

Considering there's a fair chance that Gul'dan himself was already comatose when it happened, it's reasonably likely that the rest of the Shadow Council sent Garona to kill Llane, as Cho'gall proved in the comics that Gul'dan wasn't the only member capable of activating the spells to control her.
It may be compulsion, but it can become mind control when the spell is used to affect her memory. She was compelled to forget about Ahn'Qiraj, and had to be forced into remembering it and than overcoming the compulsion to not even name it.
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  #738  
Old 11-10-2014, 10:02 AM
Sceptic Sceptic is offline

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It may be compulsion, but it can become mind control when the spell is used to affect her memory. She was compelled to forget about Ahn'Qiraj, and had to be forced into remembering it and than overcoming the compulsion to not even name it.
Let me add: The only way to nullify the spell was via magical means.
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  #739  
Old 11-10-2014, 10:49 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Considering there's a fair chance that Gul'dan himself was already comatose when it happened, it's reasonably likely that the rest of the Shadow Council sent Garona to kill Llane, as Cho'gall proved in the comics that Gul'dan wasn't the only member capable of activating the spells to control her.
This is one of the possibilities I'm fond of. Specifically if Cho'gall ordered it--as it would give extra personal credibility to Garona's attempts to have him killed in later Cataclysm days.

The other possibility I fancy, is if there were a deadman's switch in her brain to automatically assassinate Stormwind leaders if Gul'dan becomes incapacitated. Of course, that's purely fanon and unfortunately raises more questions than it solves.
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  #740  
Old 11-10-2014, 05:49 PM
Eelgrin Eelgrin is offline

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Re: orc skin color in the movie, this image looks to me like Orgrim has patches of green and brown. After seeing the panel and the vibe I get from Duncan Jones and company about their approach to the movie, I don't think they'd simply make the orcs brown or green to denote alignment and leave it at that. I'm guessing that the corruption of the orcs will be a big part of the film.

I was at Blizzcon too and saw the footage. Durotan and Draka were both brown, but that doesn't mean they don't turn green later on. As IGoD pointed out, though, Draka is very pregnant in the brief shot we saw. The exact timeline of events in terms of Thrall's birth might be a bit different.

If anyone's interested, I'll do a detailed writeup later on of every thing I can remember from the teaser trailer (we went back to see it a couple times, mostly for the completed effects shot of Durotan shown afterward, for reasons I'll discuss in this post!) If anyone else was at the con and can help clarify/fill in the gaps, that'd be great!

I did want to talk a bit about the Durotan shot. After an "extended version" of the teaser footage shown at SDCC, they screened what Duncan Jones described as a more completed effects shot that was better representative of what to expect from the finished product. Not sure how it was in IGoD's screening, but my first viewing was pretty cool; there was this really palpable tension when the theater went dark after Jones' introduction, and when the camera opened on Durotan there was actually an audible collective gasp.

It was legitimately the most well-executed piece of performance capture effects that I've ever seen. I'm not exaggerating when I say it was astonishing. It looked like Planet of the Apes taken to the next level of realism, and I think a big part of that was the facial design, which admittedly wasn't exactly what I was expecting. I had envisioned a more realistically rendered version of what we've seen in Blizzard cinematics, but that wasn't exactly the case. These orcs, or at least Durotan, are distinctly more human-looking in how the face is laid out. The eyes in particular were what struck me; they weren't tiny and glaring, they were big, brown, and soulful (and if memory serves, they sported eyebrows). The upper part of the face looked almost like you'd taken a human face and stretched the proportions a bit. I admit I was a bit weirded out, but after seeing it a second time it really grew on me. The nose wasn't broad and flat like a gorilla; if anything it was a little smaller and more pinched than I'd expected. The iconic heavy jaw and tusks were well in place, and I think there might have been a piece or two of ornamentation on the big lower tusks. I'm gushing a bit here, but I can't stress the level of detail; when he opened his mouth to speak, the lips stuck a bit when they parted as if he'd been sitting in silence for a long while. You could see the pores, and the subsurface scattering of light through the skin. People were gasping, sighing, murmuring etc. Very cool moment if you're into cinema or effects, like what it must have been like being in the theater when people saw the brachiosaur hero shot in Jurassic Park for the first time (I was too young to remember the audience reaction during my frequent viewings of that film ) I think what made it so impactful was that it wasn't a blurry action shot, but a very still, quiet, character-centered closeup that was driven by the subtle facial performance by Toby Kebbell and the caliber of the effects. Anyway. Here's how the short scene (15-20 seconds at most) played out.

The scene is lit with low, warm lighting, and he's pretty clearly in a tent. He's gazing off camera, deep in thought. (In the panel earlier in the day, Metzen had framed the scene a little by describing it [the main devs have seen the current cut of the film a few times.] He described it as Durotan pondering the precariousness of their situation, conflicting emotions of watching his world slowly die, along with being a chieftain, a husband, a soon-to-be father, etc.) The scene is almost completely silent at this point, and there's a good 5 seconds of this.

Then there's a gentle rustling and we hear Draka say from off-camera "I can feel your eyes." She says it warmly, but she sounds like she's in pain. The voices sound very human, but slightly pitched down to sound orcish. Not gravelly or growly, though. Durotan snaps out of his trance, his expression softens and he reaches out to hold her hand or something, saying "I thought you were asleep." She groans and says "I was."

That's it. There was another moment of silence and then pretty thunderous applause. Again, super cool moment
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Last edited by Eelgrin; 11-10-2014 at 05:52 PM..
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  #741  
Old 11-11-2014, 06:52 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Default The Warcraft Movie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcraft_%28film%29

The current cast was, well, quite disappointing. It's nowhere close to LotR or even GoT. And I'm quite surprised to see Wu Yanzu here, especially as Gul'dan.
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  #742  
Old 11-11-2014, 07:23 PM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Merged since there not really a reason for 2 of these right now.
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  #743  
Old 11-12-2014, 01:50 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Dalaran already being airborne makes the city more unique I'd guess is the reason.
Or somebody at Blizzard forgot Dalaran wasn't always flying (since we're talking pre-WoW here) and nobody brought it up to them. Then when somebody asks why they'll just sort of bluff their answer.
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  #744  
Old 11-12-2014, 02:32 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Or somebody at Blizzard forgot Dalaran wasn't always flying (since we're talking pre-WoW here) and nobody brought it up to them. Then when somebody asks why they'll just sort of bluff their answer.
Well, the way Metzen talked about the movie's production during the panel, it sounds like no one at Blizzard had any involvement in it's development. Metzen knew about as much as we did until they brought him to the set and showed the rough cut.
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  #745  
Old 11-12-2014, 02:37 PM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
it sounds like no one at Blizzard had any involvement in it's development.
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  #746  
Old 11-12-2014, 02:43 PM
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I hope the orcs aren't too Hulk-y. They're big but they're not giants.
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  #747  
Old 11-12-2014, 02:56 PM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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I hope the orcs aren't too Hulk-y. They're big but they're not giants.
Tell me about Orgrim. Why does he wear the Doomhammer?
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  #748  
Old 11-12-2014, 03:11 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Tell me about Orgrim. Why does he wear the Doomhammer?
Lotta loyalty for a goblin bruiser.
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  #749  
Old 11-12-2014, 03:58 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
it sounds like no one at Blizzard had any involvement in it's development.
. . .

Okay, but... I mean, someone making this movie knows that Lothar, Durotan, and Gul'dan are characters. So they've got... there's some sort of script or source they've gotta be working off of. Probably.
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  #750  
Old 11-12-2014, 06:19 PM
Eelgrin Eelgrin is offline

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I hope the orcs aren't too Hulk-y. They're big but they're not giants.
From what I saw, their physiques are comparable to what we've seen in Blizzard cinematics.
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