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  #1651  
Old 11-22-2017, 03:17 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Pretty sure that UC is indefensible because it is in (more) ruins, in other words destroyed.

I'd also advise everyone to not take everything Blizzard says (or doesn't say) at face value or literally.
I’m not taking it at face value so don’t put words in my mouth.

They said Lordaeron was in ruins, which implies the top part that was sieged. Blizzard also doesn’t do faction war evenly. We know this.

All I’m saying is that she has done more in one expansion than Garrosh and Vol’jin.

As for her losing, she doesn’t have to win, but that doesn’t mean she’ll lose. Blizzard will monkey paw our complaints on the last war and have things be a stalemate. Garrosh only lost because the races turned against him, and it’s a plot point that Sylvanas needs to be different than him.
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  #1652  
Old 11-22-2017, 04:21 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
I’m not taking it at face value so don’t put words in my mouth.

They said Lordaeron was in ruins, which implies the top part that was sieged. Blizzard also doesn’t do faction war evenly. We know this.

All I’m saying is that she has done more in one expansion than Garrosh and Vol’jin.

As for her losing, she doesn’t have to win, but that doesn’t mean she’ll lose. Blizzard will monkey paw our complaints on the last war and have things be a stalemate. Garrosh only lost because the races turned against him, and it’s a plot point that Sylvanas needs to be different than him.
Sylvanas, as a territorial conqueror, did as much as Blackhand and Doomhamer in the very least even before she rose to Warchief.

Tirisfal, Lordaeron, her campaign on Northrend, Gilneas and her attempt at Stormheim.

Compare that record with other Warchiefs.
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  #1653  
Old 11-22-2017, 04:33 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Are you really trying to paint Sylvanas' achievements as something the Horde should be proud of?

Yeah, let's be happy because she's surpassing some of the most vicious warmongers the world has seen!

Thrall made more for the Horde than any other Warchief, and without need for conquest. He made the Horde big, proud and powerful enough to be able to do anything it can do now. His track record was pretty good, until he decided to let Garrosh take his place.

(And I curse you for making me praise Thrall)
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  #1654  
Old 11-22-2017, 04:37 PM
Gromak Gromak is offline

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I have a very hard time attesting any of what happens to Sylvanas as a character instead of plot armour. She not only get's away with everything, but get's rewarded with more and more authority and power even though she has proven time and time again to be the worst possible Horde leader to give all this to.
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  #1655  
Old 11-22-2017, 04:54 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Yeah, let's be happy because she's surpassing some of the most vicious warmongers the world has seen!
Yep, a true conqueror. Blood for the blood Horde!

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Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
I have a very hard time attesting any of what happens to Sylvanas as a character instead of plot armour. She not only get's away with everything, but get's rewarded with more and more authority and power even though she has proven time and time again to be the worst possible Horde leader to give all this to.
Wc3 Thrall comes as close second and even outscores her with his Mary Sue traits.
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  #1656  
Old 11-22-2017, 05:05 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Those insects look sad. Like you ate their last mango, or something.
Well now I can't unsee the sad face.

I do like their design though. I may get one on my hunter if I can...assuming I actually like playing a hunter in BfA (I hate it in Legion).
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  #1657  
Old 11-22-2017, 05:08 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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The last good warchief was an orc.

As the orcs are the only ones that move the HORDE forwards. They are the only ones capable of doing stuff For the benefit of the Horde.

As shown with sylvanas, and jin jin, now jin jin is arguably ok at best. But it was Garrosh and Thrall that sought out allies and stuff with the other factions and recruited Great stuff into the Horde.

(Dragonmaw.... Blackrocks... Forest trolls... Hozen...Blo-.... Foreskin)
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  #1658  
Old 11-22-2017, 10:30 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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They said Lordaeron was in ruins, which implies the top part that was besieged. Blizzard also doesn’t do faction war evenly. We know this.
The exact wording was "Undecity lies in ruins." If anything, that implies that the Undercity, the subterranean necropolis that serves as the Forsaken capital, is in ruins too, not just Capital City above it.
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  #1659  
Old 11-22-2017, 11:20 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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The undercity is going to be ruined, whether that means the Ruins above get caved into the city or the necropolis is destroyed, who knows.

There are going to be Horde hold outs in the Eastern Kingdoms, but the bastions/bulwarks of the Forsaken will be destroyed, as was mentioned by the devs. Hold outs = flight paths, so people can still take the lazy bird.

Im sure the same will happen in Kalimdor. Im sure a few will be shuffled around on both sides - it would make no sense for Astranaar or Lordanel to still be standing, nor the Bulwark, Tarren Mill or the Sepulchre On the EK side.

We will have to wait and see with the beta.

Edit: the Alliance boat between SW and Darnassus is being changed to Auberdine, I wonder if the Zeppelin will be removed or if it will be changed to being a stealth run of some kind?
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So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"

Last edited by Crazyterran; 11-22-2017 at 11:25 PM..
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  #1660  
Old 11-23-2017, 01:29 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Are you really trying to paint Sylvanas' achievements as something the Horde should be proud of?

Yeah, let's be happy because she's surpassing some of the most vicious warmongers the world has seen!

Thrall made more for the Horde than any other Warchief, and without need for conquest. He made the Horde big, proud and powerful enough to be able to do anything it can do now. His track record was pretty good, until he decided to let Garrosh take his place.

(And I curse you for making me praise Thrall)
You don’t have to morally agree with someone’s actions to think that what they’re doing benefits a nation. Is it that hard to objectively say that conquering Kalimdor, and acquiring entire cities of races is an accomplishment?

Actually consider what I’m saying here, rather than be upset that it’s Sylvanas doing these things.
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  #1661  
Old 11-23-2017, 01:39 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
The exact wording was "Undecity lies in ruins." If anything, that implies that the Undercity, the subterranean necropolis that serves as the Forsaken capital, is in ruins too, not just Capital City above it.
I think going from a sewer to a ruined pile of rubble is an upgrade.

The Horde bias knows no bounds!
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  #1662  
Old 11-23-2017, 01:47 AM
Jiggler Jiggler is offline

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Everytime I check back here, it backs up my decision to just skip the forum during BfA. The faction whining was annoying during cata and mop, and will be annoying during BfA as well.
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  #1663  
Old 11-23-2017, 02:43 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
You don’t have to morally agree with someone’s actions to think that what they’re doing benefits a nation. Is it that hard to objectively say that conquering Kalimdor, and acquiring entire cities of races is an accomplishment?

Actually consider what I’m saying here, rather than be upset that it’s Sylvanas doing these things.
It only feels like a win because the lore does not bother to factor the massive loss of lives and resources that go in such extended war campaigns.
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  #1664  
Old 11-23-2017, 04:13 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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It only feels like a win because the lore does not bother to factor the massive loss of lives and resources that go in such extended war campaigns.
Oh, right. Human and worgen lives.
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  #1665  
Old 11-23-2017, 04:29 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Oh, right. Human and worgen lives.
Forsaken, Orcs, etc.

Remember, Sylvanas got shit kicked until Crowley got sentimental. Then got a new hole in her head.

As we see in BFA, the Alliance makes a serious effort to take Lordaeron, it seems to have done it. Or, at least, broken the back of the Forsaken there.
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #1666  
Old 11-23-2017, 04:59 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
Forsaken, Orcs, etc.

Remember, Sylvanas got shit kicked until Crowley got sentimental. Then got a new hole in her head.

As we see in BFA, the Alliance makes a serious effort to take Lordaeron, it seems to have done it. Or, at least, broken the back of the Forsaken there.
The similarities to Blackhand and Doomhamer get tighter by the minute.
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  #1667  
Old 11-23-2017, 05:52 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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The similarities to Blackhand and Doomhamer get tighter by the minute.
Just think of the 'fan art' if Anduin puts Sylvanas in a cage like Terenas did to Doomhammer?
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #1668  
Old 11-23-2017, 06:14 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Just think of the 'fan art' if Anduin puts Sylvanas in a cage like Terenas did to Doomhammer?
Obviously it would involve some shadow priest tentacle rape
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  #1669  
Old 11-23-2017, 06:20 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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You people are ruining tentacle rape for me.
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  #1670  
Old 11-23-2017, 06:25 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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It only feels like a win because the lore does not bother to factor the massive loss of lives and resources that go in such extended war campaigns.
By that logic, every raid and expansion we’ve done don’t count as wins. You’re also not including the increase of soldiers coming from recruiting a mountain range of Tauren, a city of Nightborne, and a kingdom of trolls.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #1671  
Old 11-23-2017, 08:14 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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By that logic, every raid and expansion we’ve done don’t count as wins.
Whatever, man. If you can't see the difference between beating the ancient monstrosity that was planning to destroy the world and "winning" territory in an endless faction war, I won't point it out to you.

Only times Blizzard remembers that war has its costs is when it decides to justify internal conflict within the Alliance. Like how the kingdoms didn't want to spend resources in the orc camps, or how Westfall was in chaos due to the costs of the Northrend campaign. The rest of the time, it's just ignored entirely.

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You’re also not including the increase of soldiers coming from recruiting a mountain range of Tauren, a city of Nightborne, and a kingdom of trolls.
Yay, more people to die for the Warchief!
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  #1672  
Old 11-23-2017, 08:33 AM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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Faction pride : because in-game politic can make you stupid too
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  #1673  
Old 11-23-2017, 10:03 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Everytime I check back here, it backs up my decision to just skip the forum during BfA. The faction whining was annoying during cata and mop, and will be annoying during BfA as well.
I like you. You look like a sandwhich worth eating.


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You people are ruining tentacle rape for me.
Y'know there's that hilarious little doujin series about consensual tentacle stuff. It's super cute.
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  #1674  
Old 11-23-2017, 10:11 AM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Only times Blizzard remembers that war has its costs is when it decides to justify internal conflict within the Alliance. Like how the kingdoms didn't want to spend resources in the orc camps, or how Westfall was in chaos due to the costs of the Northrend campaign. The rest of the time, it's just ignored entirely.
To be fair, if Blizzard decided to show the costs of war in a realistic way, Legion would have just curbstomped the Azerothian resistance, because there's no way any of the nations have a standing army worth anything after all the shit that went down the last five years or so.
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  #1675  
Old 11-23-2017, 10:43 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Patrick_C View Post
To be fair, if Blizzard decided to show the costs of war in a realistic way, Legion would have just curbstomped the Azerothian resistance, because there's no way any of the nations have a standing army worth anything after all the shit that went down the last five years or so.
Yeah, but let's imagine they did have the resources, men and power to do so when the Legion invaded. Faction war after it is the stupidest thing that could happen right now.

(It's amazing how gimped the Legion was in this. In Warcraft 3, it was this unstoppable force. Now, the nations of the world can hold the biggest invasion ever and still have spare resources to fight each other afterwards.)
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Last edited by Deicide; 11-23-2017 at 10:52 AM..
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