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  #5851  
Old 06-23-2018, 10:27 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Fenixhart View Post
There you go doing exactly what I said not to because

They are terrible at Verisimilitude and are only getting worse. Fuck out of here with this "Behaviour issues" Bullshit.
You're still avoiding the question.

It seems that bashing on the writing direction is more important than defending your (flawed) logic.

I stand my point. Have you seen people in real life with behavior issues?
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  #5852  
Old 06-24-2018, 03:23 AM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
IF we’re in the market for a new War Chief, I’m beginning to think perhaps Garona might not be a bad choice. She’s quite intelligent and given how much time she spent with the Shadow Council I’m sure she’s picked up a thing or two about government. She’d be a strong statement with her appointment, yet she’s also perfectly capable of and interested in peace. She’s getting on in years, so maybe it’s time she hung up her daggers (perhaps in someone’s spine) and took up a management position. My main interest in her is that she’s an iconic character who has been a part of Warcraft since the very beginning.
Even if we know it was not willingly, she betrayed and killed a Stormwind's king.
That would make easy propaganda for those in the Alliance who want to continue the war after BFA.
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  #5853  
Old 06-24-2018, 05:23 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Even if we know it was not willingly, she betrayed and killed a Stormwind's king.
That would make easy propaganda for those in the Alliance who want to continue the war after BFA.
Good.

1. I like the Alliance Horde Conflict. It doesn’t always have to be open war (though I intend to enjoy every minute of that) but that tension is a key element of Warcraft that shouldn’t go away.

2. It would be nice to see the Alliance Instigating. Especially since a: Garona truly is willing and able to live in peace with the Alliance; yet b: the Alliance has no reason to trust that.

3. Like I said, it sends a strong message: This Warchief isn’t being chosen to please the Alliance (or Alliance fans). She’s there for the Horde. But she’s been around long enough to see the rise and fall of all the other War Chiefs and has a good head on her shoulders.
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  #5854  
Old 06-24-2018, 10:09 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I'll just leave this here

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  #5855  
Old 06-24-2018, 08:13 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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What the fuck?
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  #5856  
Old 06-24-2018, 09:40 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Hey Garona if you don't want to fight against the Alliance for the Horde, especially under Sylvanas, maybe you should consider not doing that.

Like just walk away. Sure Sylvanas will be mad but you've survived worse
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  #5857  
Old 06-24-2018, 10:48 PM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Hey Garona if you don't want to fight against the Alliance for the Horde, especially under Sylvanas, maybe you should consider not doing that.

Like just walk away. Sure Sylvanas will be mad but you've survived worse
...Why does she have to run away from an organisation she wasn't even part of? Since when CAN Sylvanas give her an order? Like i'm not even sure the guy writing Garona is aware she was never a new Horde agent.

Even if she is "infiltrating" the current Horde for the Uncrowned does it not come across somewhat suspicious that someone who adamantly never wanted anything to do with the Horde ever so suddenly does?
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  #5858  
Old 06-24-2018, 11:12 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
...Why does she have to run away from an organisation she wasn't even part of? Since when CAN Sylvanas give her an order? Like i'm not even sure the guy writing Garona is aware she was never a new Horde agent.

Even if she is "infiltrating" the current Horde for the Uncrowned does it not come across somewhat suspicious that someone who adamantly never wanted anything to do with the Horde ever so suddenly does?
Any neutrals would be squashed inbetween both sides of an ever-upscaling war.
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  #5859  
Old 06-24-2018, 11:20 PM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Any neutrals would be squashed inbetween both sides of an ever-upscaling war.
Forgive me for being skeptical of the idea that one of, if not the greatest assassin alive cannot, even with a pivotal position in an organisation that has apparently been treating the entirety of Azeroth as a giant chess board, manage to avoid being strong-armed into actively serving another organisation that for the most part probably isn't even aware she exists.

Last edited by Sa'danak; 06-24-2018 at 11:23 PM..
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  #5860  
Old 06-25-2018, 01:29 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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The reason Garona is seemingly in the Horde is probably because every time she appears in-game, someone at Blizzard evidently says "Oh, she's an orc. That makes her Horde, right?" So she gets some nonsensical dialogue about how great it was killing kings and such for Gul'dan and how much she looks forward to doing it again, followed by subsequent corrections when players notice what they did.

The fact that the players keep noticing this specifically concerning her and raising a stink until Blizzard fixes it feels potentially rather telling. Like they're applying a simplistic mindset when they use these characters, ignoring their individual backstories as an excuse to slap a red tabard on them. Garona's an orc, so she must be Horde. Voss is undead, so she must be Horde. It wouldn't surprise me if they erroneously have Valeera appear serving the Horde at some point just because she's a blood elf.

Plus it's hard to ignore that they've rather shortchanged the Horde on "world characters" (we had Thrall, but everyone ruined that) so making some notable neutrals arbitrarily decide they're all-in for the lok'tars and the ogars probably seems like a cheap and easy way to rectify that.

Last edited by ARM3481; 06-25-2018 at 01:34 AM..
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  #5861  
Old 06-25-2018, 05:43 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
What is the context here? Who is this guy? Is there something I'm not getting?
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  #5862  
Old 06-25-2018, 06:50 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
The reason Garona is seemingly in the Horde is probably because every time she appears in-game, someone at Blizzard evidently says "Oh, she's an orc. That makes her Horde, right?" So she gets some nonsensical dialogue about how great it was killing kings and such for Gul'dan and how much she looks forward to doing it again, followed by subsequent corrections when players notice what they did.

The fact that the players keep noticing this specifically concerning her and raising a stink until Blizzard fixes it feels potentially rather telling. Like they're applying a simplistic mindset when they use these characters, ignoring their individual backstories as an excuse to slap a red tabard on them. Garona's an orc, so she must be Horde. Voss is undead, so she must be Horde. It wouldn't surprise me if they erroneously have Valeera appear serving the Horde at some point just because she's a blood elf.

Plus it's hard to ignore that they've rather shortchanged the Horde on "world characters" (we had Thrall, but everyone ruined that) so making some notable neutrals arbitrarily decide they're all-in for the lok'tars and the ogars probably seems like a cheap and easy way to rectify that.
Clearly you’re not keeping up. Every example you just cited is wrong. As of this build Garona and Voss both say they’re being coerced (there’s just the question of how they’re being coerced), while as of Before the Storm Valeera still is loyal to the Wrynns.
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  #5863  
Old 06-25-2018, 10:22 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Clearly you’re not keeping up. Every example you just cited is wrong. As of this build Garona and Voss both say they’re being coerced (there’s just the question of how they’re being coerced), while as of Before the Storm Valeera still is loyal to the Wrynns.
Ahem.

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The fact that the players keep noticing this specifically concerning her and raising a stink until Blizzard fixes it feels potentially rather telling.
And that's exactly what I said.

Garona and Voss started out breaking character, followed by Blizzard having to go back and fix it. Which they have done, as you and I have said. Which was my point. It's like rather than being put where they are because of who they are, they're picked just for being recognizable Horde-race characters. And it happened the same way with Legion before, where they had Garona basically bragging about killing Llane until people pointed out how ridiculous it was. As if she'd been initially implemented on Legion Beta as just a token Horde representative for a class hall without a thought given to whether or not she's really even in the Horde.

Valeera hasn't appeared in-game for BfA as yet, so that was just a hypothetical, and I was speaking specifically of the developers and their portrayals in-game. On things like this the writers of the novels seem to keep a more direct line to the lore historians than the quest and NPC designers, as that sort of stuff seems to happen less frequently.

I'm not talking about this stuff going live. I'm saying that the fact they keep doing it - with Garona in particular and now Voss - suggests the designers aren't really paying attention to these Horde-race (but not technically Horde) characters each time they decide to utilize them, so they keep having to backpedal and hastily fix obnoxious breaks in character that came from them initially assuming it was just another big-name Horde orc or undead.
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  #5864  
Old 06-25-2018, 10:51 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Ahem.



And that's exactly what I said.

Garona and Voss started out breaking character, followed by Blizzard having to go back and fix it. Which they have done, as you and I have said. Which was my point. It's like rather than being put where they are because of who they are, they're picked just for being recognizable Horde-race characters. And it happened the same way with Legion before, where they had Garona basically bragging about killing Llane until people pointed out how ridiculous it was. As if she'd been initially implemented on Legion Beta as just a token Horde representative for a class hall without a thought given to whether or not she's really even in the Horde.

Valeera hasn't appeared in-game for BfA as yet, so that was just a hypothetical, and I was speaking specifically of the developers and their portrayals in-game. On things like this the writers of the novels seem to keep a more direct line to the lore historians than the quest and NPC designers, as that sort of stuff seems to happen less frequently.

I'm not talking about this stuff going live. I'm saying that the fact they keep doing it - with Garona in particular and now Voss - suggests the designers aren't really paying attention to these Horde-race (but not technically Horde) characters each time they decide to utilize them, so they keep having to backpedal and hastily fix obnoxious breaks in character that came from them initially assuming it was just another big-name Horde orc or undead.
My mistake and my apologies.
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  #5865  
Old 06-25-2018, 11:07 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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It does seem to happen to Garona a lot.
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  #5866  
Old 06-25-2018, 11:07 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
My mistake and my apologies.
No problem, sorry if my response seemed a bit..."brow-beaty," I guess?

I'm still wont to get a bit overly wordy from time to time.
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  #5867  
Old 06-25-2018, 11:21 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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No problem, sorry if my response seemed a bit..."brow-beaty," I guess?

I'm still wont to get a bit overly wordy from time to time.
No worries, and there’s nothing wrong with being wordy in these parts
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  #5868  
Old 06-25-2018, 11:27 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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They just did another Siege of Orgrimmar Vol'jin Internet Tough Guy where they changed a character's dialogue after backlash.

Anyway, thread reminder that Yrel is merely doing to the filthy Orcs what the Alliance should have done on their world (teach the Light to combat the lethargy and purge the non-cooperative ones).
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  #5869  
Old 06-25-2018, 11:27 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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It's sad how some very cool and iconic talents are only available with War Mode on

https://gfycat.com/CriminalOldBeaver
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  #5870  
Old 06-25-2018, 12:58 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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It does seem to happen to Garona a lot.
The Horde is lacking in rogue (any) characters. Also, as I’ve seen people on the forums try to argue, having a history with a faction means you’re a part of that faction.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #5871  
Old 06-25-2018, 01:24 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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The Horde is lacking in rogue (any) characters. Also, as I’ve seen people on the forums try to argue, having a history with a faction means you’re a part of that faction.
The last time I tried to ask this, people refused to give me a straight answer and tried to bite my head off, but - why is it a big deal if Garona is or isn't part of the Horde?

I just don't understand the consternation. I've never really paid attention to this character and now I'm confused.
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  #5872  
Old 06-25-2018, 02:38 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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You know, this reminds me of how at Blizzcon 2015 they mentioned that Alonsus Faol was brought back as an undead because when working on the order halls, they realized there weren't enough Horde priest characters and decided to make him one. Except for the entirety of Legion the Horde leadership didn't know about him, and now that they do, he's an enemy of the Horde who would probably be killed on sight should he approach the Undercity or Orgrimmar.
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  #5873  
Old 06-25-2018, 04:09 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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It also further implies the trend of Blizzard treating undeath as a magical allegiance changer even with nominal free will which is by far the most irritating aspect of how its been treated since Cataclysm.
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  #5874  
Old 06-25-2018, 04:33 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
It also further implies the trend of Blizzard treating undeath as a magical allegiance changer even with nominal free will which is by far the most irritating aspect of how its been treated since Cataclysm.
All that, and yet certain posters on forums would still have you believe Undead are just Humans/Elves/Whatever with skin conditions who the Alliance have no grounds to be wary of.
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  #5875  
Old 06-25-2018, 04:39 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
The last time I tried to ask this, people refused to give me a straight answer and tried to bite my head off, but - why is it a big deal if Garona is or isn't part of the Horde?

I just don't understand the consternation. I've never really paid attention to this character and now I'm confused.
Ah, Garona is a half draenei child slave who was the Shadow Council's mind controlled assassin who is the Mother of the nonexistant Medan.

Her only association with the Horde is in being the Old Horde's slave.

It's not a pretty story

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