Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Lore Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 12-10-2011, 08:09 PM
Mustrum Mustrum is offline

Banished
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: In the corner of your mind
Posts: 4,990

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I think Blizzard destroyed the meaning and poignancy when they repeatedly retconned how he died.
You may be right.

Honestly, I don't want Illidan to rez either. I hope the last vial is accounted for in some badass way that doesn't involve bringing Illidan back from the dead. However, I think Blizzard has a great opportunity here to rewrite his character in a more satisfying and epic manner than they did the first time around, simply by having him sneak back to the future from the Well of Eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-10-2011, 08:13 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

Elune
Ku'ja's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cumbria, England !!
Posts: 8,080
BattleTag: Eregos#2913

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Illidan was an absolutely terrible person and only a moderately engaging character. On those grounds, he doesn't DESERVE to be brought back. Furthermore, from a narrative perspective, bringing him back wouldn't do much good.


Lothar would certainly be more useful to the Alliance if resurrected than Illidan. I guarantee you that if Lothar was leading the Alliance instead of king Chynn the Alliance would be in a far better place.



I think Blizzard destroyed the meaning and poignancy when they repeatedly retconned how he died.
I do wish they would bring Lothar back but at the same time i do not... currently i have no idea why but Blizzard seem to fail at sticking to there guns i mean look at Genn Greymane they basically ignored his past entirely and made him a totally different person.

Illidan is in a different boat because they actually portrayed him well in the Well of Eternity 5 man... they know that they didn't use him well in TBC and he is very popular with the Warcraft fans.

I would bring them back for alternate reasons if i could do so myself with Lothar actually leading the Alliance to success and Illidan only being involved with Demon business and actually being the Anti-Hero he was meant to be portrayed as.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
You may be right.

Honestly, I don't want Illidan to rez either. I hope the last vial is accounted for in some badass way that doesn't involve bringing Illidan back from the dead. However, I think Blizzard has a great opportunity here to rewrite his character in a more satisfying and epic manner than they did the first time around, simply by having him sneak back to the future from the Well of Eternity.
I would actually love that if it was possible for Nozdormu not to notice.... because he does go back in time to sort out the mess that was caused and honestly it would be quite badass.
__________________

Run

Last edited by Ku'ja; 12-10-2011 at 08:15 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-10-2011, 08:28 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

The draconic Titleless - Mod
HalfElfDragon's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 15,545
Send a message via AIM to HalfElfDragon Send a message via MSN to HalfElfDragon Send a message via Yahoo to HalfElfDragon

Default

I don't think people want Illidan to come back because they felt he, as a character, deserved better in the context of the story, but because they feel he deserves better in a more removed context.
__________________
Quote:
Lucio Benado be wanting to say, Hey, what's up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porimlys View Post
See! Not everyone on the internet is so stubborn they can't have their opinions changed
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-10-2011, 08:33 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

Time-Lost Proto Nerd
Insane Guy of Doom's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,003

Default

Lothar had a fitting end to his story, Illidan didn't. We didn't see him or even really learn what he was doing other than "ARRGH YOU ARE NOT PREPARTED!", I think that's why Blizzard wants to bring Illidan back. So he can have a more fitting conclusion.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-10-2011, 08:37 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 34,378
BattleTag: Omacron#1477

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Lothar had a fitting end to his story, Illidan didn't. We didn't see him or even really learn what he was doing other than "ARRGH YOU ARE NOT PREPARTED!", I think that's why Blizzard wants to bring Illidan back. So he can have a more fitting conclusion.
Illidan had a fitting end to his story back in Northrend when Arthas gored him with Frostmourne.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 12-10-2011, 08:41 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

The draconic Titleless - Mod
HalfElfDragon's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 15,545
Send a message via AIM to HalfElfDragon Send a message via MSN to HalfElfDragon Send a message via Yahoo to HalfElfDragon

Default

That didn't feel like an end to me, though it works better than what we got in TBC.
__________________
Quote:
Lucio Benado be wanting to say, Hey, what's up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porimlys View Post
See! Not everyone on the internet is so stubborn they can't have their opinions changed
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-10-2011, 08:45 PM
Mustrum Mustrum is offline

Banished
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: In the corner of your mind
Posts: 4,990

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Lothar had a fitting end to his story, Illidan didn't. We didn't see him or even really learn what he was doing other than "ARRGH YOU ARE NOT PREPARTED!", I think that's why Blizzard wants to bring Illidan back. So he can have a more fitting conclusion.
The Red Shirt has spoken! Hail the Red Shirt!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-10-2011, 11:31 PM
Ardeiute Ardeiute is offline

Arch-Druid
Ardeiute's Avatar
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,328

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
>Illidan
>Anduin Lothar
>Died protecting the entirety of the human race from an alien invasion and forged the Alliance, acting as one of if not its greatest leaders
>Was stabbed in the back by a greenskinned monster
>Nope, he should stay dead
As Im sure you know by now, I told you to read the book...it was a fair duel..Lothar lost..there was no dishonorable conduct. Its canon, he lost, fair and square, get over it.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-11-2011, 11:12 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 34,378
BattleTag: Omacron#1477

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorns View Post
As Im sure you know by now, I told you to read the book...it was a fair duel..Lothar lost..there was no dishonorable conduct. Its canon, he lost, fair and square, get over it.
Do I know he died in an honorable duel in canon? Yes.

Do I like it? No. WCII is why I love Lothar. Including the way he died, fighting off waves of orcs before being killed by the Warchief KNOWN as "the backstabber" for chrissakes.

I'm sick of the lionization of Doomhammer.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-11-2011, 12:34 PM
Montoya Montoya is offline

Ashbringer
Montoya's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,212
BattleTag: Montoya#1769

Default

I hope they don't bring him back just to kill him again. I want to see this guy mature and get passed his baggage, wouldn't that be interesting?
__________________
"I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self."
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-11-2011, 12:43 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

Elune
Lon-ami's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 12,552
BattleTag: Lonami#2916

Default

What if the Burning Legion or someone else resurrected a number of powerful heroes/villains to use them as weapons.

Could be cool if handled well, but knowing Blizzard, it would be lame as hell.

If Illidan returns, he should die in the same expansion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
>Illidan
>Asshole who spent his entire life hitting on his brother's girlfriend, doing drugs and rotting in prison
>Essentially Azeroth's loser friend from highschool who ran around shirtless and crying over the one who got away
>Deserves to come back to life

>Anduin Lothar
>Died protecting the entirety of the human race from an alien invasion and forged the Alliance, acting as one of if not its greatest leaders
>Was stabbed in the back by a greenskinned monster
>Nope, he should stay dead
Lothar, epic death, yes.

Illidan, epic death, no.

Successful summarization.
__________________


Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter)

~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~

Last edited by Lon-ami; 12-11-2011 at 12:46 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-11-2011, 01:36 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

Guru of Gilneas
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,277

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Do I know he died in an honorable duel in canon? Yes.

Do I like it? No. WCII is why I love Lothar. Including the way he died, fighting off waves of orcs before being killed by the Warchief KNOWN as "the backstabber" for chrissakes.

I'm sick of the lionization of Doomhammer.
In the immortal words of Soldrethar, "Deal thyself with it."
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-15-2011, 02:40 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

Eternal Watcher
Yaskaleh's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The heart of Scania
Posts: 18,625
BattleTag: Yaskaleh#1817

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Do I know he died in an honorable duel in canon? Yes.

Do I like it? No. WCII is why I love Lothar. Including the way he died, fighting off waves of orcs before being killed by the Warchief KNOWN as "the backstabber" for chrissakes.

I'm sick of the lionization of Doomhammer.
First time ever I see myself agreeing with Omacron.
I grew up with warcraft 2 and the death of Lothar. I remember that I always tried to enter the cheat for immortal units so that lothar wouldn't die.
I almost burned the book when I came to the part with the "duel".
Greatest disgrace in warcraft.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-15-2011, 02:45 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

The draconic Titleless - Mod
HalfElfDragon's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 15,545
Send a message via AIM to HalfElfDragon Send a message via MSN to HalfElfDragon Send a message via Yahoo to HalfElfDragon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
I almost burned the book when I came to the part with the "duel".
I think you might be taking things a tad bit too seriously.
__________________
Quote:
Lucio Benado be wanting to say, Hey, what's up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porimlys View Post
See! Not everyone on the internet is so stubborn they can't have their opinions changed
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-15-2011, 02:47 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

Eternal Watcher
Yaskaleh's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The heart of Scania
Posts: 18,625
BattleTag: Yaskaleh#1817

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfElfDragon View Post
I think you might be taking things a tad bit too seriously.
Well, we all get a bit fired up when it comes to stuff that we grew up with :p
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 12-15-2011, 02:47 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 34,378
BattleTag: Omacron#1477

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfElfDragon View Post
I think you might be taking things a tad bit too seriously.
Welcome to Scrolls of Lore.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-16-2011, 09:30 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

Elune
C9H20's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,234

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
In the immortal words of Soldrethar, "Deal thyself with it."
That sounds double fun if you speak it quickly, at least if you're Serbian, love it :-D

I am usually very strict on bringing characters back from the dead, and I tend to be adamantly against it, except if they pull it off as a cool plot hook, for example in the case of Kel'Thuzzard, but even then not too much or it starts to cheapen death in the universe.

There is only one character who I think was wrong so much to be given a second chance even though it doesn't make much sense is.... wait for it... old Kael'thas, heads and setbacks be damned!


As far as the missing vial goes... we have a lot of suspects as most people in that temple would desire a source of power of such magnitude.

One name that instantly popped in my head was Terron Gorefiend, it would go a long way towards explaining his dieing words in which he implied that he will return.
I would like that as I can easily envision him returning with considerable power due to it, and then becoming a recurring antagonist in questing. He definitely seems like a schemer, but one who is capable of hopping into battle at times, and schemer's are always interesting. He should be portrayed as dangerous and often end up winning. In general villains need to win way more often in WoW.

Second and third place go to, Maiev and Akama respectively. I place Maiev first due to her antagonistic appearance in Wolfheart making her way more likely to be plotting something with the vial, it does explain her brazen actions quite well. Akama comes second because I just don't trust him, sure he has his sob story but I think he may have used that to fool us and kindly show us the exit to the temple so he can begin to plot... something.

That is the problem with figuring out the fate of the vial when you think about it, there are too many possibilities because everybody has a reason for wanting it, and as it is pure overwhelming power we can't quite figure out the use for it either as it can be anything.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-17-2011, 01:32 AM
Stackattack Stackattack is offline

Arch-Druid
Stackattack's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,826

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
That sounds double fun if you speak it quickly, at least if you're Serbian, love it :-D
ohai neighbour. well, now we've got a slovenian, a serbian and a bosnian on SoL. you guys are about to be taken over by balkans, we just need to get ahold of a croat. :p
__________________
"Today Hellscream shall learn the lesson that Thrall failed to teach him...
Stormwind will never fall!"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.